RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

[Used2BRoz]

Happy to do play-testing.

Be interesting to see what's in the final compilation and how it all plays.

I'm interested in the way the economy plays out in M2TW mods, so will keep an eye on that once I've played a faction for long enough to spot obvious bugs.

Can I suggest we don't start tweaking this mod until we've been playing it for a while. If there is a patch needed it needs to have the base to work with, not your customised version.

[achilles-91]

I am especialy interested if ai still spam army stacks

[Judeman266]

I am especialy interested if ai still spam army stacks

This never bothered me. I just sacked their cities by sea and abandon the settlements leaving 1 weak unit to slow them down. Then I repeat the process again until the enemy is bankrupt.

[Point Blank]

Happy to do play-testing.
I'm interested in the way the economy plays out in M2TW mods, so will keep an eye on that once I've played a faction for long enough to spot obvious bugs.

Definitely this^

[achilles-91]

This never bothered me. I just sacked their cities by sea and abandon the settlements leaving 1 weak unit to slow them down. Then I repeat the process again until the enemy is bankrupt.

I dont like exploiting AI

[Point Blank]

Yep that's just abusive

[achilles-91]

PB, how much in your opinion AI spam stacks of armies? Im very interested in this. Is it like in Stainless Steel?

[achilles-91]

stat_pri_armour 12, 4, 3, metal this is quapakulu unit

They are wearing plated mail and have also armor for horses (historicly i think horse should be also covered in plated mail). I think they're armor value is too low. Can you tell me something about this PB?

EDIT: Nevermind, im comparing it with other units of similar equpment and i see it preaty much fits. But still would like to hear your comment

[Point Blank]

Armor for cavalry used to be a simple addition of mount armor + rider armor. This gave them too much advantage, leading to values like 30 armor for Lancers even without upgrades, and somewhat neglected the vulnerability of the horse, especially vs missile weapons.
It is now rider armor * 0.67 + mount armor, which is already slightly under the equivalent rider armor. I am pleased with these new values so far and with armor upgrades the values can still be pretty high. Note that mount mass values have approximately doubled since the previous version - this does not lead to much of an increase in target casualties but makes cavalry charge effects much more realistic. The entire raft of new cavalry mechanisms and infantry defenses against them synergize quite effectively, we will see how the player reaction is to them.
You can see all this in the RRRC_Ultimate.txt guide.

[Point Blank]

PB, how much in your opinion AI spam stacks of armies? Im very interested in this. Is it like in Stainless Steel?

Certainly less but as in 6.4 AI factions do still get a couple of free stacks fairly early on. Used2bRoz will be examining the economic aspects in detail and maybe we can get rid of them.

[achilles-91]

This looks extremly interesting, i cant wait to try it. So far, scoutatoi is the only unit that worries me. XD
I know its too early, but, have you considered removing free upkeep in cities/castles

[Point Blank]

Why are you worried about the Scoutatoi? They don't have spearwall any more.
About free upkeep, removing it is not gonna happen, its there for good reasons, read the RR document

[Jurand of Cracow]

I had a glorious campaign playing Hungary in SS6.4 - the Venetians were piece of cake, but the heavy Byzzies with their Scutatoi - tough nut to crack! And the Hungarians don't have heavy cavalry in 12th century - very, very difficult to counteract them. I used Frankish Knights mercs, despite their price.

On the free upkeep - I actually find it right both given the rationale, but also on the basis of the gameplay: if they go on a campaign, you've got to start paying for them.

[Point Blank]

Exactly, plus it helps the AI pay for its armies, generally its terrible at that.

The Byzzies are hardcore in the Early Era, matched in the High and obsolescent in Late.

[achilles-91]

Armor for cavalry used to be a simple addition of mount armor + rider armor. This gave them too much advantage, leading to values like 30 armor for Lancers even without upgrades, and somewhat neglected the vulnerability of the horse, especially vs missile weapons.
It is now rider armor * 0.67 + mount armor, which is already slightly under the equivalent rider armor. I am pleased with these new values so far and with armor upgrades the values can still be pretty high. Note that mount mass values have approximately doubled since the previous version - this does not lead to much of an increase in target casualties but makes cavalry charge effects much more realistic. The entire raft of new cavalry mechanisms and infantry defenses against them synergize quite effectively, we will see how the player reaction is to them.
You can see all this in the RRRC_Ultimate.txt guide.

I can tell that this is excelent aproach without even testing it yet. Because EB2 made similar thing about cavalrimen armors, and it function way better.

[achilles-91]

Im not active for couple of days, because im testing battles most of time. Everything is going wonderfull so far. Just one question. Why swiss halberdiers have 'may charge without order' (or however it is called)? Arent they supposed to be disciplened?

[Jurand of Cracow]

I may run and finish a battle in my install, but I cannot run any campaign. Has anybody (but PB) managed to run a campaign?

[Virian]

managed to get a laggy high era campaign run but gave up and now am waiting for the proper version to come so that i can play it properly

[copitodelefa]

Every time I try to change mod options I get these error messages, can run custom battles but campaign crashes when the bar is half full.

https://gyazo.com/6cd10a3eca8a35092c7701af8351ceb3

https://gyazo.com/3bd7729c249073c089162ec28b472242 (I don't get this one since the file seems to be ok, check highlighted text)

The last one repeats for some other files which also seem to be all right.

[achilles-91]

I may run and finish a battle in my install, but I cannot run any campaign. Has anybody (but PB) managed to run a campaign?

No mate.