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Thread: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

  1. #1

    Default RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    Greetings,

    RealCombat 2.0 is a top-to-bottom renovation of the earlier version of RC and wrings out every last possible piece of tactical goodness from the M2TW battle engine, a remarkably deep and sophisticated piece of software. It is the culmination of over 10 years of work on RC and pushes it more towards being a simulation of medieval-era combat, whilst also being entirely transparent to the user. It can be readily adapted to any other era, from ancient up until colonial times.


    Aside from the nitty-gritty details of weapons and armor, a major emphasis has been placed upon further deliniating the differences between various types and classes of units - skirmish horse archers as compared to missile HA, western close-order charge cavalry vs eastern skirmish cav, heavy vs light infantry, professionals vs mercenaries etc, as well as between their different quality levels.


    So, here is a non-exhaustive list of some of these updates and changes, starting with cavalry and covering other aspects in successive posts:


    1. CAVALRY
    - New mounts: Destrier, Late Heavy Horse, Spanish Horse
    - Mounts have updated values for move speed, mass, non-couched weapon charge bonus, heat, stamina, x-radius
    - New mount categories: Pony, HA/Javelin, Lancer, Charger, Brawler. These further modify the values for melee attack, charge, defense, move speed, mass, heat, morale, x-radius
    - Each mount category behaves differently in melee - Ponies, HA/Javelins and Lancers tend to pull back whereas Brawlers push forward. These behaaviors are further modified such that Impetuous and Elite Melee cavalry push forward more strongly while Bodyguards, Light and Spearmen cav pull back more. So, for example, we see French Impetuous Elite Lancer cavalry pushing forward in melee, whether or not that behaviour is tactically sensible at the time
    - Cavalry with a melee level of Superior or better gets the frighten_foot attribute, which is an important part of depicting the psychological impact of strong cav on foot units. Conversely, pikes get frighten_mounted



    Last edited by Point Blank; May 02, 2018 at 05:33 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Point Blank View Post
    Greetings,

    RealCombat 2.0 is a top-to-bottom renovation of the earlier version of RC and wrings out every last possible piece of tactical goodness from the M2TW battle engine, a remarkably deep and sophisticated piece of software. It is the culmination of over 10 years of work on RC and pushes it more towards being a simulation of medieval-era combat, whilst also being entirely transparent to the user. It can be readily adapted to any other era, from ancient up until colonial times.


    Aside from the nitty-gritty details of weapons and armor, a major emphasis has been placed upon further deliniating the differences between various types and classes of units - skirmish horse archers as compared to missile HA, western close-order charge cavalry vs eastern skirmish cav, heavy vs light infantry, professionals vs mercenaries etc, as well as between their different quality levels.


    So, here is a non-exhaustive list of some of these updates and changes, starting with cavalry and covering other aspects in successive posts:


    1. CAVALRY
    - New mounts: Destrier, Late Heavy Horse, Spanish Horse
    - Mounts have updated values for move speed, mass, non-couched weapon charge bonus, heat, stamina, x-radius
    - Mount categories: Pony, HA/Javelin, Lancer, Charger, Brawler. These further modify the values for melee attack, charge, defense, move speed, mass, heat, morale, x-radius
    - Each mount category behaves differently in melee - Ponies, HA/Javelins and Lancers tend to pull back whereas Brawlers push forward. These behaaviors are further modified such that Impetuous and Elite Melee cavalry push forward more strongly while Bodyguards, Light and Spearmen cav pull back more. So, for example, we see French Impetuous Elite Lancer cavalry pushing forward in melee, whether or not that behaviour is tactically sensible at the time
    - Cavalry with a melee level of Superior or better gets the frighten_foot attribute, which is an important part of depicting the psychological impact of strong cav on foot units. Conversely, pikes get frighten_mounted



    I still play this mod and 6.4, its the Combat and Armour system that keeps me coming back, your work is amazing.

    I understand its a hell of a lot of work and time involved, but fella you have brought me and a hell of a lot of other guys so much pleasure over the years.

    Thanks

  3. #3

    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    Thanks Bud. What I find amusing is CA people on the new Britannia game forum STILL trying to tweak and defend the Warcrap engine, which is just broken - M2TW did everything it does, and better, way back in 2006:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...774504-Battles

    As I said in that thread, I was asked by CA to be a Beta Tester prior to Empire, and have decided to submit another application. When you get down to it, the battles are what make the TW series stand out - if you want more in-depth strategic gameplay you would be better off with Europa Universalis.

    You will like the expanded armor system, which will be detailed in an upcoming post.
    Last edited by Point Blank; May 02, 2018 at 05:38 AM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    2. AUTORESOLVE
    Preliminary values undergoing testing; better reflects the actual effects of such units on the battlefield:

    Foot Unit 1
    Mounted Unit 3
    Missile Unit +1
    Skirmisher Unit +1
    Peasant -1
    Peasant Militia -1
    Superior +1
    Elite +1
    Exceptional +2
    Bodyguard +1
    Heavy Cavalry +1

    MINIMUM VALUE IS 0.


    3.MISSILE WEAPONS
    - Better quality archers have faster reload, aiming and shooting animations
    - Javelins are thrown more quickly without an extended aiming animation
    - Mounted pistoliers reload very quickly to depict carrying a brace of already-loaded weapons
    - Crossbows have +20m range boost to compensate for needing to be loaded before shooting
    - Better quality shooters receive a +1 attack bonus. This represents such aspects as compound arrowheads with a hardened steel tip, or a better quality crossbow
    Last edited by Point Blank; May 02, 2018 at 06:17 AM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    4. MELEE WEAPONS- Many weapons have re-worked stats. For example, after further research axes are now non-AP but receive an attack bonus; 1H axes have a smaller x-radius enabling closer formations, a faster attack speed and reduced heat penalty
    - Stats included for Ancient and Dark Ages weapons such as the Gladius and Sax, and specialist Late Era ones like the Estoc
    - Falchion added and wielded by some Lithuanian infantry
    - Animations customized for 1H cut, thrust, cut-and-thrust, club/mace/warhammer/falchion, rapier, plus shield and non-shield versions of these weapons
    - Animations customized for 2H cut, thrust, cut-and-thrust, club, axe, estoc, swordstaff, halberd etc, plus phalanx and non-phalanx versions of these weapons
    - The animations integrate with the updated stats to better depict the time taken to position and execute effective attacks, and the risk of such being interrupted by opponents with faster weapons
    - 2H weapons now better employed in their historical role of assault and flanking but suffer more in prolonged melee
    - Customized x-radii that better reflect the space required to wield weapons effectively. These values feed into formation stats such that some units are now wider or narrower than before, in both close and open order modes
    - Some re-working of how 'Aggressive' animations work, ie these units are less concerned with unit cohesion and will push forward vigorously - used by Sword and Buckler Men plus other anti-pike units, fanatical units, barbarian infantry etc
    - Better-quality fighting men can receive +1 attack bonus to melee attack value for weapon quality

    5. ARMOR SYSTEM
    - Armor stats updated, especially heat
    - Armor types added subsequent to Advanced Metallurgy event: White Harness (Northern Italy), Gothic Plate (Southern Germany), Greenwich Armor (England), Maximilian Armor (Germany)
    - Better-quality fighting men have access to advanced armor types years in advance of average units
    - Better-quality fighting men can receive +1 or +2 bonus to armor value
    - Better-quality units have slightly increased mass
    Last edited by Point Blank; May 02, 2018 at 01:34 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    6. AI
    - Tweaked the formations file to increase the chances of different deployment formations being used by mostly HA or Heavy Cav armies, for example
    - Increased differences between the 5 AI battle files, one of which is randomly chosen by the AI prior to each battle, leading to variable behavior on each occasion

    7. OVERALL COMBAT BALANCE
    - Updated the battle config file to slightly increase the effect of missile weapons on cavalry and elephants globally

  7. #7
    Lifthrasir's Avatar A Clockwork Orange
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    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    Keep it up Mate. Even if not posting often here, I keep an eye on your good work
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, of the Imperial House of Hader



  8. #8

    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    Have finally completed all parts of the RC component. Tonight I will post the Guide and EDU here. Early era campaign won’t start so will aim to pin that down too.
    Last edited by Point Blank; May 04, 2018 at 10:39 AM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    I just did a fresh installation to prepare for this: definetly curious

  10. #10
    Ichon's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Point Blank View Post
    2. AUTORESOLVE
    Preliminary values undergoing testing; better reflects the actual effects of such units on the battlefield:

    Foot Unit 1
    Mounted Unit 3
    Missile Unit +1
    Skirmisher Unit +1
    Peasant -1
    Peasant Militia -1
    Superior +1
    Elite +1
    Exceptional +2
    Bodyguard +1
    Heavy Cavalry +1

    MINIMUM VALUE IS 0.


    3.MISSILE WEAPONS
    - Better quality archers have faster reload, aiming and shooting animations
    - Javelins are thrown more quickly without an extended aiming animation
    - Mounted pistoliers reload very quickly to depict carrying a brace of already-loaded weapons
    - Crossbows have +20m range boost to compensate for needing to be loaded before shooting
    - Better quality shooters receive a +1 attack bonus. This represents such aspects as compound arrowheads with a hardened steel tip, or a better quality crossbow
    Nice changes here- the javelin other loading animations made some units behave very erratically so this should be a big improvement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Point Blank View Post
    4. MELEE WEAPONS- Many weapons have re-worked stats. For example, after further research axes are now non-AP but receive an attack bonus; 1H axes have a smaller x-radius enabling closer formations, a faster attack speed and reduced heat penalty
    - Falchion added and wielded by some Lithuanian infantry
    5. ARMOR SYSTEM
    - Better-quality units have slightly increased mass
    Great idea on both of these- more evidence coming in lately that falchion type weapons were used more widely than has been assumed while better quality units having mass to represent cohesiveness and aggression probably makes sense in MTW2 engine.
    Last edited by Ichon; May 04, 2018 at 06:16 PM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    Oh, forgot to mention:
    - Very few cavalry now has the 'hardy' attribute, representing increased stamina
    - Charge distances for cavalry increased. This represents the need to return to one's lines to get another lance etc. It also makes it more difficult to pull off a good charge. Combined with the change above and the increased heat penalties, there is now a much greater downside to cycle charging, especially for heavy cavalry
    Last edited by Point Blank; May 04, 2018 at 11:02 PM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    Il download it, as soon as you release it.

  13. #13

    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Point Blank View Post
    - Better quality archers have faster reload, aiming and shooting animations
    Not sure about this.

    Elite archery usually meant heavier warbows rather than higher rate of fire?

    Also, what is your stance on the amount of ammo to be carried by foot archers and horse archers?

    Medieval foot archer quivers would rarely pass 25ish arrows(apart from the medieval Romans ofc who carried arrow bags) and the horse archer quiver would carry as few as 6-8 arrows and usually middled around 16-18 arrows, so even with representing them having two quivers you get 16-30ish ammo in total.


    Quote Originally Posted by Point Blank View Post
    - Javelins are thrown more quickly without an extended aiming animation
    Thank the gods.


    Quote Originally Posted by Point Blank View Post
    - Crossbows have +20m range boost to compensate for needing to be loaded before shooting
    Shame nobody managed to get a hold of that dude that fixed this issue and made the crossbowmen walk with loaded crossbows
    Last edited by Mamlaz; May 05, 2018 at 10:09 AM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    Don’t worry too much about the faster archery, that is the ONE thing that was a prospective fix and so far I have not found the frame-rate editor to apply, because all the files have been shifted to a nee PC. But I take your point about the heavier bows, so might as well leave it as it is

  15. #15
    bitterhowl's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    Hi, thanks for your brilliant work! One question about late era heavy dismounted units - in some mods (in most honestly) this soldiers wake up from the ground after knockdown. In reality they couldn't do it alone because of armour weight. Is it possible to add this feature somehow (I understand that it's impossible made them lie as they fall, but maybe disable knockdowns for them)? Thanks for attention and keep up the good work!

    My sister, do you still recall
    The blue Hasan and Khalkhin-Gol?

  16. #16

    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by bitterhowl View Post
    In reality they couldn't do it alone because of armour weight
    lol what

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzTwBQniLSc

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-bnM5SuQkI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm11yAXeegg

  17. #17

    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    WOW.
    Just when I had all but given up on an update.

    And I'm going to ask, as far as my website, Stainless-Steel-Mod.com is concerned, are the units much different? Will I need to do some major updating?

  18. #18
    bitterhowl's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    Well, we speak about situation of dense mass of men hand-to-hand melee to death, not Youtube training or even tournament. Additionally - knight is knocked down after getting injury, after commotion of his armour by axe or hammer. He is not only knocked down, he's got a contusion and probably blackouted. And he has enemy near who did that for him and want to win the fight. So I have heavy doubts he'll jump back like ninja as shown on that video in real medieval combat.

    Well, anyway this is only private opinion about old game, so nevermind. Just keep on your good work!

    My sister, do you still recall
    The blue Hasan and Khalkhin-Gol?

  19. #19

    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by bitterhowl View Post
    Well, we speak about situation of dense mass of men hand-to-hand melee to death, not Youtube training or even tournament.
    Quote Originally Posted by bitterhowl View Post
    And he has enemy near who did that for him and want to win the fight. So I have heavy doubts he'll jump back like ninja as shown on that video in real medieval combat.

    Even easier then, since he then has loads of nearby friends to help him out.

    Quote Originally Posted by bitterhowl View Post
    Additionally - knight is knocked down after getting injury, after commotion of his armour by axe or hammer. He is not only knocked down, he's got a contusion and probably blackouted.
    Then he is just out of the battle...he is a casualty.

  20. #20
    bitterhowl's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: RC 2.0 Ultimate Updates and Changes

    Have you been familiar with real warfare history? In real battle of that period fallen man sooner will be stomped on by any "friends". If we speak about late era of medieval times, heavy armour and late era close and dense battle formations with pikes and halberds and greatswords.

    My sister, do you still recall
    The blue Hasan and Khalkhin-Gol?

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