How to be a successful successor king on the battlefield?

[Nordling]

Hi guys,

Juat finished Persian campaign (oh well, after beating Parthia, Baktria I needed a break from it) I wanted to try something else. I have never touched successors since they are a pike focused factions and I was never good with them. However, I already tried Greek states and Carthage and I'm not very fond of Barbarians - so the only pick that was reasonable was one of siccessor kingdoms. I went for Epirus because of hard & interesting starting position.

First of all I wanted to point that one can recruit all available units for barracks lvl1 right off the bat - like theuros spears and theuros swords. Im not sure if that was intentional since Greek states get em after theuros reforms. Just pointing it out.

Secondly, as I mentioned, I was never good with pike units. On the battlefield they always cause me a headache as an enemy force and they always seem ramp up kills pretty fast. I manage to break em only after rear cav charge but that happens rather later as they are always required elsewhere. That is why I wanted to ask you successor pros: how to create an effective army composition for pike army and more importantly, how to use pikes effectively - how many units in 1 full stack, what is your typical pike placement (1 solid wall / pike units separated individually / pike units separated in two formations, idk), how deep should be the formation (do you make it more of a spaghetti line or 1 solid block)? Also, do you practice screening them with levy cannon fodder? Once theyre engaged do you use em to push the enemy or hold the line? And so on, whatever tips you got - roll em out!!

Cheers & have a good day
Nordling

[~Seleukos.I.Nikator~]

Hey Nordling,

The only two campaigns I've played in DeI thus far, have been with first the Ptolemies and now Pergamon. Apart from purely historical interests for the Hellenistic kingdoms, I like them due to their army compositions, of which the pike formation is the very core.

DeI has managed to develop by far the best pike formation I've ever seen in TW games, and when used properly the pike units can be extremly deadly and efficient.

In the full stack army I normally have 6-7 pike units deployed in the very centre of the straight line. It is imperative that you provide enough protection on either side of the pike formation. Otherwise they will easily get broken.

Use at least 2-3 units of spear or sword infantry on each site. That's very important as the enemy will often try to flank you.

Moreover, I usually have 2 units of peltast right behind the pike line. First they may provide support with their jevelins and later if any gaps open up they can always fill them up.

Other things you should also focus on:

- don't order the pike units to attact or counter-attack; just let them stay in formation and the enemy usually will attack them frontally with some of his units, which is pretty much a suicide; if I ever order the pikes to attack that's usually toward the end of a battle when the enemy units are already quite exhausted, just to deal a final blow

- beware of the terrain; the pikes are best to be used on the flat terrain, otherwise they can easily loose their balance

- if somehow the enemy will manage to outflank you then I suppose it is better to drop the pikes and switch to the shield-and-sword formation as it gives you more balance and maneuverability

[Furgon]

- beware of the terrain; the pikes are best to be used on the flat terrain, otherwise they can easily loose their balance

This is not entirely correct. Pikes like all other units have insane buff fighting downhill. You just need to make sure that the slope itself is "flat" and sarissas are pointed at the enemy, not above their heads.

[~Seleukos.I.Nikator~]

This is not entirely correct. Pikes like all other units have insane buff fighting downhill. You just need to make sure that the slope itself is "flat" and sarissas are pointed at the enemy, not above their heads.

This is true. However, that kind of placement is always a tricky one and what I actually had in mind here was that known bug that other players have reported on the forum - and what I've also experienced myself lately - when the enemy unit just walks through your pike or hoplite unit totally unhindered. This bug is reportedly due to terrain irregularities.

From what I've seen thus far, the most stable positioning for the pike units is thus the flat terrain.

[geala]

I usually only play successors, only in my current starting campaign I'm trying Meroe. It was a shock for me that they don't have pikes.

My one or two better armies (aka invincible) usually are as follows:
1 general (on horse)
1 heavy shielded missile cavalry
1 light missile cavalry or medium cavalry
1 armored elephants
8 pikes, usually the defensive long version
2 hoplites or, later and better thoureophoroi/thorakitai: for the flanks of the pikes
1 heavy sword infantry
2 peltasts
2 archers
1 ballista

This is for Macedon, with Epirus or the Ptolemies it is a bit different. I don't like the Seleucids and never played them, but they have in theory a really great roster, so no problems.


Tactics are easy, I build a line of pikes 6 units long, then depending on enemy army composition I put the hoplites/thureos guys at each end while the two pikes guard the flanks against cavalry together with the cavalry. Sometimes I make the pikes 8 long and then the flank protection. Usually the flank units are oblique to my line. Wether hoplites are in or out of phalanx depends on the enemy units; thoureophoroi are better for the flanks and thorakitai of course are best. Pikes are usually 6 to 8 deep.

After idling around for some time and enjoying sunshine (or fighting against enemy flank attacks) I counterattack from the sides with cavalry from my right and peltasts/sword from my left. Against heavy resilient infantry (Romans, Spartans or similar villains) the elephants are nice; mop up javelin units and archers with cavalry before you use the beasts.

Because of the ballista the enemy always attacks; it is cheating to a certain degree because the AI always loses when attacking pikes. For this reason I ususally do not have artillery in most of my stacks. If you have to attack it is a bit more difficult and dangerous to fight against more than one quality enemy stack, Marian legions for example. And on vh the battles become also quite difficult, I usually play only "normal".

The enemy I find most annoying are missile heavy stacks, especially with horse archers. I change the amount of my archers in my armies in such regions.

[ablebodie]

What I don't get, and my biggest problem with pike armies, is how the heck do you take cities with half your infantry consisting of pikemen?

[~Seleukos.I.Nikator~]

Enemy garrison army often sallies out, actually. That's for the better in this case.

Otherwise, you may use your pike units in sword-and-shield formation to attack the sections of the walls manned either by the archers or the city militia. They perform well enough against them.

You may also try to move them inside the city and fight in the phalanx formation on the streets. In that case, however, your formation is more vulnerable to losing its balance.

[Samos41]

Pikes OP
1. Nothing can beat them head on unless its like Super Elite vs Levy.
2. Take walled cities by using a Ballista to make a hole in the wall and take out surrounding towers, your pikes can then plug the hole and advance through and then onto the town centre killing all in their path.
Prior to Ballista have at least 6 hoplites or other decent melee units to take a gate or two.
3. In terms of Army composition I tend to go with 6-8 pikes, 4 melee, 2 heavy cav (including gen), 2 light cav, 4 archers, 2 peltast, that's the field battle army. For sieges I swap a couple of pikes over for melee or ballista if avaliable.
4. Usually if you can out skirmish your opponent you've won the battle. So i tend to put an emphasis on missile units with my armies, they last thing you want is for your pikes to have to charge the enemy whilst getting shot the on way in. Missiles are the bane of pikes so keep them safe and neutralise the enemy missiles before getting them anywhere near the fight. Treat them like elephants.
5. On the campaign map use the fortify stance, choke-points and river crossings. Especially the river crossings! holy massacre. But make sure you have more missiles than the enemy you don't want to be the one who has to cross.

Good luck and happy conquerin'