Page 2 of 25 FirstFirst 123456789101112 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 495

Thread: Jeremy Corbyn 'figurehead for anti-semitism'

  1. #21

    Default Re: Jeremy Corbyn 'figurehead for anti-semitism'

    So basically British people are stuck between Stalinist "conservative" May and a fiscally illeterate anti-Semite Corbyn. At this rate Britons might as well need a full on revoltuion, because with such "democracy" it is a lose-lose situation for them.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Jeremy Corbyn 'figurehead for anti-semitism'

    I fail to see how Labor's position is "fiscally illiterate" and even if Corbyn is an antisemite, I doubt they're going to start rounding up Jews or firing Jewish employees from the government.

  3. #23
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    NI
    Posts
    8,764
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: Jeremy Corbyn 'figurehead for anti-semitism'

    Diane Abbot can't count to ten and Corbyn left school with two Es. You'd be mad to trust them with our economy, with enforced equality quotas for every demographic you can think of, sex, race, I bet 'ageism' will be the next big fad. Either way, both parties offer bigger and bigger government, and less and less liberty.
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus
    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Jeremy Corbyn 'figurehead for anti-semitism'

    Theresa May is not educated in Economics either. You do not have to have a flawless school record to be an expert in your field. Moreover I've read the Labor manifesto, I don't agree with all the things on it but it's a coherent platform. If you think that politicians are the ones who devise economic policy you are naive. Politicians project objectives and economic priorities, which also change depending on the pliability and wisdom of the politician in question. Technocrats are the ones who actually write and apply policy. Do you think Reagan wrote his economic platform? No. In fact, I doubt he had anything to do with it aside from the usual ideological education he self-taught himself.

    There's also the irrelevance of your education at a certain point especially in social sciences. Especially after many decades in politics where everything you've learned has probably been changed or rewritten substantially. What Theresa May or Corbyn would've learned on Economics 20-40 years ago would be fairly inconsequential today.

  5. #25
    Dante Von Hespburg's Avatar Sloth's Inferno
    Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    4,996

    Default Re: Jeremy Corbyn 'figurehead for anti-semitism'

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Diane Abbot can't count to ten and Corbyn left school with two Es. You'd be mad to trust them with our economy, with enforced equality quotas for every demographic you can think of, sex, race, I bet 'ageism' will be the next big fad. Either way, both parties offer bigger and bigger government, and less and less liberty.
    Not quite honestly, i agree with the expanded role of state regardless of party, but that can potentially be tied into the current trajectory not merely regarding UK traditions on this, but also the impact historic globalization is having as new regulatory frontiers open up, and of course the creation of a digital economy (and i would argue society with the scale of online interactions) gives cause for the government to step 'further in' - just as it has after every single industrial revolution, in a meaningful way. I'd caveat this the 'War on Terror' situation has compounded things by creating a political and social atmosphere akin to the post-war period, where states and populaces fear insecurity and expansion of the state is accepted across the board. The really interesting thing is technically the 'war on terror' is something that essentially will never end (At least i can't see it)- as its not one fought against a discernible foe, and not limited one particular group (Far-right are now being included).

    In regards to Labour economic policy- i disagree as none of that is mentioned in the 2017 manifesto that acts as the Blueprint mate. Nor again could they be due to the way party-politics works (He'd have to have a triple tick for radical policies). I currently am pro-Labour exactly because of their economic policies and the need to create actual investment in the UK. Nationalization regardless of how its done (I don't believe the commentators who argue it will be 'costless') has popular cross-electoral support among the majority of Labour and Conservative voters and will help to end the privatization for parts of the economy which are not, and never can be true 'free markets'- but instead act as Cartels, where foreign governments are directly profiting for their people, off the back of British tax-payers. When given the choice between the two- The Conservatives are economically illiterate and ideologically marred by the pursuit of austerity, while at least Labour will provide the break the UK needs- after that down for whatever, but the Conservatives are far worse for the economy now than Labour ever could be (Particularly as their running of austerity has essentially shifted public debt into the private sphere...exactly the thing you are never meant to do, and partly why public debt is supposed to work in the first place). Plus of course the exacerbation of the cost of living crisis and the growing wealth disparity. Its why electorally speaking the damage Corbyn's Labour could do is minimal compared to the damage already being wrought by the Conservatives. Lesser of two evils if you want to be cynical .

    EDIT: Sukiyama is on point here and i could learn a thing or two in remember to not attribute economic platforms and manifesto's directly to the 'salespersons' of them (I.e. the politicians ). But he's exactly right and it is why instead of basing political opinion on personalities, we should look at policy- particularly as again, within the UK parliamentary system- it technically would not even matter if the head of the Labour Party was a diehard communist with Stalin posters all over his wall- beyond somehow creating a coup, his own party would easily be able to block, modify and as happens always, compromise down policy ideals to something far more suitable to the British context- if they get 'overrun' somehow, you have the Party membership at large who variously in Labour and Tories have a large degree of influence, and of course if all that fails- the British public reject it at the polls. What we do have is widescale electoral support for key Labour policies (Nationalization over half of Tory voters would like to see that alongside an end to austerity as people now fear a recession again), a sensible manifesto (Bearing in mind even Abbott who messed up or indeed the current Chancellor Hammond- who also cannot count due to screwing up his investment figures in a big way will have teams of economists and civil servants actually doing the 'adding up') and working economic policies (for the most part).

    Just as an example of how little a single person matters in UK politics, we need look no further than Theresa May. She is Prime Minister, with ideas that several factions of her party do not agree with- she thus has a very small influence base, and effectively is used as a pass the parcel by whichever Conservative faction is dominant at the time (there have been 3 distinct changes to Tory rhetoric)- and this was before she killed herself effectively by failing in the 2017 GE and leading to the Conservatives to be 'worse' off than they were when they started. The fact she's incompetent is also an issue of course- but generally it goes to show how little power individual personalities potentially really hold in UK politics without real party backing- hence the Labour Manifesto in 2017- he had to 'unify' and thus why it was very sensible from an economics stance, and did not exclude nuclear weapons (As Corbyn personally wants) and was not anything 'radical' on the economic front (As McDonnell wants)
    Last edited by Dante Von Hespburg; March 27, 2018 at 11:50 AM.
    House of Caesars: Under the Patronage of Char Aznable

    Proud Patron of the roguishly suave Gatsby


  6. #26

    Default Re: Jeremy Corbyn 'figurehead for anti-semitism'

    I honestly can't even be bothered to dismiss these absurd notions of "enforced equality quotas for every demographic you can think of, sex, race, I bet 'ageism' will be the next big fad. Either way, both parties offer bigger and bigger government, and less and less liberty" as I simply do not have the time at this very moment. Suffice to say however, to add to what Dante said, Aexodus' allegation is a hyperbole at best, a complete characterization in reality. I'm not even in agreement with all of Labor's policies but continuing on the current trajectory that the Tories are intent on taking UK to, is completely uncharted waters. The economic turmoil has been already significant.

  7. #27
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    NI
    Posts
    8,764
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: Jeremy Corbyn 'figurehead for anti-semitism'

    Do you not see why I would be opposed to a party that wants to charge white people more to attend rallies, I think that one example reveals their underlying mentality, a 'white saviour' complex.

    From their own manifesto, it reads
    Ours willbe a government for women, with a cabinet of at least 50 per centwomen, which ghts ine uality andmisogyny in every part of society.
    A Labour government will genderaudit all policy and legislation




    for its impact on women beforeimplementation.
    They have a 50/50 gender quota in their own cabinet for Pete's sake, regardless of whoever will do the job best. Especially when only 29% of MPs are women. It favours women for an ideological point, and I don't want these people implementing this in other areas.

    Labour will continue to ensure
    a woman’s right to choose a safe,legal abortion – and we will workwith the Assembly to extend thatright to women in Northern Ireland.
    The peace we have today inNorthern Ireland is due to thecourageous endeavours ofthose on all sides who havebeen brave enough to build it.
    So, despite taking credit for the Stormont assembly, they would try to make them legalise abortion, against the wishes of the majority party. On at least an ideological basis, this is why I shudder at the thought of Labour getting into office, the social costs are too great imho.
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus
    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  8. #28
    Dante Von Hespburg's Avatar Sloth's Inferno
    Moderator Emeritus

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    4,996

    Default Re: Jeremy Corbyn 'figurehead for anti-semitism'

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Do you not see why I would be opposed to a party that wants to charge white people more to attend rallies, I think that one example reveals their underlying mentality, a 'white saviour' complex.

    From their own manifesto, it reads

    They have a 50/50 gender quota in their own cabinet for Pete's sake, regardless of whoever will do the job best. Especially when only 29% of MPs are women. It favours women for an ideological point, and I don't want these people implementing this in other areas.





    So, despite taking credit for the Stormont assembly, they would try to make them legalise abortion, against the wishes of the majority party. On at least an ideological basis, this is why I shudder at the thought of Labour getting into office, the social costs are too great imho.
    It is worth bearing in mind though again that this is stuff that effects their own party specifically- there is no attempt to force it upon the private sector, or even in the public sector- as again you would have the (if they were in power) 4-tier tick system for such a thing. Personally i'm against 'positive discrimination' on the basis of wanting a meritocratic society...though this alas is something the UK does not have with nepotism and cronyism rife in private and public spheres. So from my standpoint- i don't get too interested in such issues as its 'one more level' of 'stuff' on top of an already non-meritocractic society (though i can understand and respect your right to take the issue as keyley important)- but again moves within the party for this, do not reflect what will be done as actual policymaking level.

    The abortion issue- i think it depends upon our contexts- sitting from a Scottish context (and currently English) abortion is something that is uncontroversial basically, so there's my bias/background- but i read that as 'work with' not 'enforce' as of course it is politically difficult for a variety of reasons for a Westminster based government to enforce or pressurize a devolved assembly- particularly Northern Ireland. Their can be no dictatorial enforcement. This might mean negotiating with the DUP and Sinn Fein over the issue (if they remain the two largest parties), it might mean bringing to the fore parties that campaign for this who are based in N.Ireland- but essentially i believe it would be referendum territory regardless due to the complexities involved.

    A bigger point though its not a firm commitment, its a 'work with'- and we all know what that usually means in Manifesto's.

    Social costs though being too high for you, is something that's fair enough. For me, where economics is the key, another term of the Conservatives would be devastating and the knock on social consequences from the fall out of their continued economic incompetence is genuinely frightening to me. I actually hope early on after May took over with the change in rhetoric of her debut speech as PM, but the actions and factions since then, and her personal weighing in have disabused me of that hope.
    Last edited by Dante Von Hespburg; March 27, 2018 at 12:41 PM.
    House of Caesars: Under the Patronage of Char Aznable

    Proud Patron of the roguishly suave Gatsby


  9. #29

    Default Re: Jeremy Corbyn 'figurehead for anti-semitism'

    Well done DVH, a fautless post.

    As you say, we are governed by two houses, not one person. Major policies are tested to death through public consultation, Director and Director General , or higher sign off, Departmental, Treasury and 10DS Special advisors, before legislation is allowed to be discussed or laid. In my experience the crappiest proposals are those contained in manisfesto commitments, it takes giant balls to suggest to a Minister that a manifesto commitment is unworkablre. Those speeches or answers to Parliamentary questions you may see onn Parliament TV. Each one written by a civil servant. In my view teaching people about the workings of Parliament should be on the curriculum. It might prevent some people abusing or indeed killing their MPs.
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

    "Out of the crooked tree of humanity,no straight thing can be made." Immanuel Kant
    "Oh Yeah? What about a cricket bat? That's pretty straight. Just off the top of my head..." Al Murray, Pub Landlord.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Jeremy Corbyn 'figurehead for anti-semitism'

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Do you not see why I would be opposed to a party that wants to charge white people more to attend rallies, I think that one example reveals their underlying mentality, a 'white saviour' complex.

    From their own manifesto, it reads

    They have a 50/50 gender quota in their own cabinet for Pete's sake, regardless of whoever will do the job best. Especially when only 29% of MPs are women. It favours women for an ideological point, and I don't want these people implementing this in other areas.
    Even if they enforce a 50/50 cabinet gender quota, I see little wrong with it. It's the government and prioritizing sending a gender equality message is a laudable goal. This is far from "enforced equality quotas for every demographic you can think of, sex, race, I bet 'ageism' will be the next big fad" in every single aspect of society as your post seems to allude.

    So, despite taking credit for the Stormont assembly, they would try to make them legalise abortion, against the wishes of the majority party. On at least an ideological basis, this is why I shudder at the thought of Labour getting into office, the social costs are too great imho.
    What is your issue with abortion?

    I'd also like to emphasize, Labour's position is not perfect, but the current UK government and the policies they have chosen to push are not, in my opinion anyway, beneficial for UK. Especially going through with Brexit, which I view as Conservatives' biggest mistake.

  11. #31

    Default Re: Jeremy Corbyn 'figurehead for anti-semitism'

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    They have a 50/50 gender quota in their own cabinet for Pete's sake, regardless of whoever will do the job best. Especially when only 29% of MPs are women. It favours women for an ideological point, and I don't want these people implementing this in other areas.
    Because without said quota only the best have been chosen so far, right?


  12. #32
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    NI
    Posts
    8,764
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: Jeremy Corbyn 'figurehead for anti-semitism'

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    Even if they enforce a 50/50 cabinet gender quota, I see little wrong with it. It's the government and prioritizing sending a gender equality message is a laudable goal. This is far from "enforced equality quotas for every demographic you can think of, sex, race, I bet 'ageism' will be the next big fad" in every single aspect of society as your post seems to allude.
    The problem is that it tells woman that 'no, in fact you aren't good enough and need equality of outcome forced through instead of earning the post'

    What is your issue with abortion?
    Killing the unborn. But that's not what this thread is about.

    I'd also like to emphasize, Labour's position is not perfect, but the current UK government and the policies they have chosen to push are not, in my opinion anyway, beneficial for UK. Especially going through with Brexit, which I view as Conservatives' biggest mistake.
    Brexit is not a Conservative policy. It is not optional, it is happening. It was voted for in a legitimate referendum by Right wing, left wing and conservative voters combined, and will be carried out regardless of who sits in no. 10. Unless that is, you dont like democracy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yayattasa View Post
    Because without said quota only the best have been chosen so far, right?
    Indeed, they don't have great options

    Look, Corbyn probably isn't anti-Semitic himself, but he's done precious little about actual anti-semitism in his party, which isn't great for his public image. It's not a BBC conspiracy, or a slander campaign. Outlets all along the spectrum of bias are reporting this story.
    Last edited by Aexodus; March 27, 2018 at 06:28 PM.
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus
    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  13. #33

    Default Re: Jeremy Corbyn 'figurehead for anti-semitism'

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    The problem is that it tells woman that 'no, in fact you aren't good enough and need equality of outcome forced through instead of earning the post'
    This assumes that cabinet posts always reflect the best possible candidate. They don't. There are significant social barriers that prevent women from attaining a government post. A bigger question would be whether there are enough women qualified for the job, which there most likely are.

    Brexit is not a Conservative policy. It is not optional, it is happening. It was voted for in a legitimate referendum by Right wing, left wing and conservative voters combined, and will be carried out regardless of who sits in no. 10. Unless that is, you dont like democracy.
    It's definitely optional. Masses don't rule the parliament. It's pushed and encouraged by a Conservative gov. so its definitely a Conservative policy.

  14. #34
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    NI
    Posts
    8,764
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: Jeremy Corbyn 'figurehead for anti-semitism'

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    This assumes that cabinet posts always reflect the best possible candidate. They don't. There are significant social barriers that prevent women from attaining a government post. A bigger question would be whether there are enough women qualified for the job, which there most likely are.
    Social barriers such as?... There's no law that prevents women from being MPs afaik, if women generally choose not to be MPs of their own volition then maybe men jostling for cabinet positions should be discriminated against. Why is someone's gender more important than their ability to govern.

    It's definitely optional. Masses don't rule the parliament. It's pushed and encouraged by a Conservative gov. so its definitely a Conservative policy.
    Theresa May was pro-Europe during the Brexit campaign, even she sees the importance of upholding the public decision. The masses do rule parliament, its a representative democracy. Reversing Brexit would be against the wishes of the people they're supposed to represent. It is not the Conservatives that decided to leave the EU, it was the people, or the unwashed 'masses' as you put it.
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus
    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  15. #35

    Default Re: Jeremy Corbyn 'figurehead for anti-semitism'

    Quote Originally Posted by Aexodus View Post
    Social barriers such as?... There's no law that prevents women from being MPs afaik, if women generally choose not to be MPs of their own volition then maybe men jostling for cabinet positions should be discriminated against. Why is someone's gender more important than their ability to govern.
    Such as social and cultural obstacles women face anywhere in the workplace. Sexual harassment, a male dominated workplace that subconsciously favors men over women, a culture that places value on male traits and values rather than female. Etc, etc. Enforcing a 50/50 gender split in the top level of Gov. for the sake of experimentation or symbolism wouldn't be the most egregious thing in the world.

    Theresa May was pro-Europe during the Brexit campaign, even she sees the importance of upholding the public decision. The masses do rule parliament, its a representative democracy. Reversing Brexit would be against the wishes of the people they're supposed to represent. It is not the Conservatives that decided to leave the EU, it was the people, or the unwashed 'masses' as you put it.
    There are plenty of things that are done against the wishes of the people. The entire point of a representative democracy is to take away decision making power from the masses. Otherwise we'd be operating under direct democracy.

  16. #36
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    NI
    Posts
    8,764
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: Jeremy Corbyn 'figurehead for anti-semitism'

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    Such as social and cultural obstacles women face anywhere in the workplace. Sexual harassment, a male dominated workplace that subconsciously favors men over women, a culture that places value on male traits and values rather than female. Etc, etc. Enforcing a 50/50 gender split in the top level of Gov. for the sake of experimentation or symbolism wouldn't be the most egregious thing in the world.
    Subconscious favouring of men? The current PM is a woman, and absolutely no one has a problem with that, sub conscious or otherwise. Conservative voters only care if she can get the job done (which is admittedly up for debate) but at any rate her rise to no. 10 depended on merit, not her gender. A culture that favours male traits? What would those be exactly? It would be rather misogynistic of you to suggest leadership, strength and wit aren't female traits.

    The cabinet in in charge of how a country is run is not under any curcumstances an apt location for social experiments.

    There are plenty of things that are done against the wishes of the people. The entire point of a representative democracy is to take away decision making power from the masses. Otherwise we'd be operating under direct democracy.
    Then why give them a referendum in the first place if it doesn't matter, why have referendums at all if you simply disregard a result you don't like. That's the mark of a totalitarian state, not a democracy.
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus
    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  17. #37

    Default Re: Jeremy Corbyn 'figurehead for anti-semitism'

    Quote Originally Posted by Sukiyama View Post
    Even if they enforce a 50/50 cabinet gender quota, I see little wrong with it. It's the government and prioritizing sending a gender equality message is a laudable goal. This is far from "enforced equality quotas for every demographic you can think of, sex, race, I bet 'ageism' will be the next big fad" in every single aspect of society as your post seems to allude.
    Outside of Parliament, and with limited exceptions, the use differential treatment on the basis of "protected characteristics" is illegal within the employment market. It is generally only permissible, according to the 2010 Equality Act, for employers to consider protected characteristics during recruitment and/or promotion processes if:

    a) One of two or more equally qualified candidates is in possession of certain protected characteristics which are underrepresented within the field of employment they are attempting to enter and/or find advancement.

    b) It can be shown that any differential treatment applied to individuals on the basis of their protected characteristics "is a proportionate means of a achieving a legitimate aim". Considering physical characteristics when casting for a specific acting role or segregating candidates for sporting purposes would be examples of this.

    Therefore, with respect to so-called "diversity-quotas", the state holds the employment market to an entirely different ethical standard than it itself adheres to. The Sex Discrimination Act of 2002 (in which the government gave itself leave to pursue affirmative action within the Parliamentary selection process) is contradicted, but not currently superseded by, the 2010 Equality Act. The SDA was meant to be outlawed by 2015 though it has not been.

    I'd also like to emphasize, Labour's position is not perfect, but the current UK government and the policies they have chosen to push are not, in my opinion anyway, beneficial for UK. Especially going through with Brexit, which I view as Conservatives' biggest mistake.
    In a democratic society, offering a nation wide referendum (which was supported by 90% of Parliament, including the Labour Party) and then attempting to honour the result is not a mistake.



  18. #38

    Default Re: Jeremy Corbyn 'figurehead for anti-semitism'

    Reversing Brexit now will save Britain's arse in the medium term.Can't buck the maths. Anyway it looks like the OP has run out of steam, unless women have brecome the new Jews. .Which is odd because it is not as if there isn't anything else to discuss.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8274771.html
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

    "Out of the crooked tree of humanity,no straight thing can be made." Immanuel Kant
    "Oh Yeah? What about a cricket bat? That's pretty straight. Just off the top of my head..." Al Murray, Pub Landlord.

  19. #39
    Aexodus's Avatar Persuasion>Coercion
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    NI
    Posts
    8,764
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: Jeremy Corbyn 'figurehead for anti-semitism'

    Mongrel's quite right, this isn't the topic of the thread.

    Corbyn has previously refused to withdraw friendship with Islamist groups, known for being virulently anti semitic

    http://m.jpost.com/Diaspora/Poll-Onl...e-Labor-494366 (watch video)
    Last edited by Aexodus; March 27, 2018 at 09:42 PM.
    Patronised by Pontifex Maximus
    Quote Originally Posted by Himster View Post
    The trick is to never be honest. That's what this social phenomenon is engineering: publicly conform, or else.

  20. #40

    Default Re: Jeremy Corbyn 'figurehead for anti-semitism'

    That's better. You missed the most interesting part though,,,


    'Tony Blair was regarded as a friend of the Jewish people and a friend of Israel.'I suspect the near total removal of Blairites from power has led to an unexpected outcome.
    Absolutley Barking, Mudpit Mutt Former Patron: Garbarsardar

    "Out of the crooked tree of humanity,no straight thing can be made." Immanuel Kant
    "Oh Yeah? What about a cricket bat? That's pretty straight. Just off the top of my head..." Al Murray, Pub Landlord.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •