A reminder of why we should never reinstate the CdeC!

[La♔De♔Da♔Brigadier Graham]

I rest my case, thanks for posting that old bean. Saves me time.

You really havent made any case, promoting the competition ect ,isnt promoting myself is it?

[Commissar Caligula_]

Stop aggravating each other, all of you. Its getting pretty tiresome seeing the same old shite in every single thread.

[General Brewster]

Brig, is there anything you want to further accomplish with this thread? Or has it reached it's conclusion?

[Hitai de Bodemloze]

This has already happened. We removed the "notion" of rank though technically it still a different distinction. We have re-written the preamble in the Constitution to reflect this and we went out of the way to make the Constitution only about the Curia and not the site. All of these changes and others have done nothing to help elevate citizenship only to bring it down. There are some that would reduce citizenship to nothing but a simple award. Moreover, citizens that have been referred have opted to not ask for their badge back because it is hardly worth the bother. As noted in other threads, the further we move away from the past, the less interesting and less activity this forum attracts. I have been a member from 2011 which is the end of the "content reign." I literally watched this site descend into obscurity. When Halie said that this site has become conservative, he is right on point. These same people take their egalitarianism to the extreme here. Such notion, as an anarchist, has sympathy with me, but this isn't a pseudo-government, it is a club and a club needs exclusivity to function properly. We are learning this lesson very very hard right now.

Very few people take the view that the Curia isn't a pseudo-government though, and even by ceding extra-Curial matters to staff, there is still the prevailing opinion that the Curia has to make policy, draft legislation, exercise control and authority over things - even if all we have left are awards and the Constitution. We're all so zeroed in on this concept that we miss the forest through the trees. I'm of the firm belief that the Curia and Citizenship should remain, but I think we need a new way of thinking about it. Not the massive reforms that others have proposed, but a new mindset, and an acknowledgement that maybe the thing that the Curia does best isn't (or is no longer) politics, but bringing people together from across a very sprawling and divided website. If the Curia wasn't here, we would all be back in our insular communities, modding, writing, debating etc, and we would probably never cross paths with each other. We should be embracing the fact that the board does have a space that collects (nominally) the best of the best from each community here, and thinking about how we can represent the interests of said communities, forge new bonds between people, and actually do some good for the site.

[Lifthrasir]

^^ Fully agree with this.

[Veteraan]

Ah yes, I repped Hitai earlier, but forgot to post that I agree with his statement.

[Halie Satanus]

I agree too.

But.

Even small changes to try and change anything have to put out innumerable straw men and resist endless circular arguments. The fear of accusations of conspiracy and the relentless drive for transparency have made the curia a void of anything close to risk taking.

When I joined Hex (yeh I know, yawn). Ian told me Hex had become too conservative to the point it never did anything. He asked me to join because I was willing to shake things up. Being fair to the others they were willing but needed a kick up the backside.

These days I don't find the curia very willing to do anything that might risk it's image.

[La♔De♔Da♔Brigadier Graham]

Brig, is there anything you want to further accomplish with this thread? Or has it reached it's conclusion?

I think further discussion is warranted old boy and hopefully those who seek to derail the thread are finished, look at Hitai's post, a perfect example of the reason the thread was opened!

[Commissar Caligula_]

So any suggestions? In my opinion the best way to "bring together the best of the best" is through Content Publications like the defunct Silver Shield that brought together local moderators from all sections of the forums.

[Iskar]

Excellent point by Hitai. If we got to do something substantial rather than just ornamental that would be a good thing, I think, and as it stands substantial initiatives can only be found away from the tread out ways of old.

[La♔De♔Da♔Brigadier Graham]

So any suggestions? In my opinion the best way to "bring together the best of the best" is through Content Publications like the defunct Silver Shield that brought together local moderators from all sections of the forums.

And competitions old boy ,and not just for members of TWC, but for other offsite Total War sites across the divide to get involved here! TWC not the curia obviously.
Ask not what TWC can do for you, but what you can do for TWC!

Excellent point by Hitai. If we got to do something substantial rather than just ornamental that would be a good thing, I think, and as it stands substantial initiatives can only be found away from the tread out ways of old.

I agree and maybe something radical like in the link I provided to bring the community together? I am thinking in the long term, new members become the new citizens.

[Halie Satanus]

Excellent point by Hitai. If we got to do something substantial rather than just ornamental that would be a good thing, I think, and as it stands substantial initiatives can only be found away from the tread out ways of old.

I think you meant 'tired.' Yes?..

[Pontifex Maximus]

I agree too.

But.

Even small changes to try and change anything have to put out innumerable straw men and resist endless circular arguments. The fear of accusations of conspiracy and the relentless drive for transparency have made the curia a void of anything close to risk taking.

When I joined Hex (yeh I know, yawn). Ian told me Hex had become too conservative to the point it never did anything. He asked me to join because I was willing to shake things up. Being fair to the others they were willing but needed a kick up the backside.

These days I don't find the curia very willing to do anything that might risk it's image.

I can echo this sentiment and experience as well. In this case, ironically, the conservative method is the more risky option. Recently the Curia has become a less sleepy place in the past few months and I think this is due in some part to more activity by people like Halie (and dare I put myself in that class) taking a more active interest in the place.

I was rather surprised when some citizens reacted so negatively to my frank posts and discussion in a citizen application thread, even to the point of declaring me personally biased against the patron and the applicant just for speaking my mind and providing evidence for my position. I even offered constructive criticism for what would change my vote in the future. This sort of thing used to be par for the course, but as I've read somewhere this sort of posting now is off limits because it damages "the positive nature of these sorts of applications." I'd argue the Curia doesn't exist to make people feel good about themselves, or else why not award citizenship to every member upon reaching 100 posts? Thanks for the hundred posts, here is your award. I spent six terms judging citizen applications and my recent method of analysis is the same applied in every application I've ever looked at.

[PikeStance]

Very few people take the view that the Curia isn't a pseudo-government though, and even by ceding extra-Curial matters to staff, there is still the prevailing opinion that the Curia has to make policy, draft legislation, exercise control and authority over things - even if all we have left are awards and the Constitution. We're all so zeroed in on this concept that we miss the forest through the trees. I'm of the firm belief that the Curia and Citizenship should remain, but I think we need a new way of thinking about it. Not the massive reforms that others have proposed, but a new mindset, and an acknowledgement that maybe the thing that the Curia does best isn't (or is no longer) politics, but bringing people together from across a very sprawling and divided website. If the Curia wasn't here, we would all be back in our insular communities, modding, writing, debating etc, and we would probably never cross paths with each other. We should be embracing the fact that the board does have a space that collects (nominally) the best of the best from each community here, and thinking about how we can represent the interests of said communities, forge new bonds between people, and actually do some good for the site.

I initiated a discussion about a "Board of Directors." One of the points of emphasis was appealing to the different areas of contribution across the site. I false accused of initiating a central control of various areas that "did not need interference from the Curia." Ironically, I was referring to the people of those areas representing those areas, so interference is impossible. Was the proposal perfect? No, this is why I placed in the main Curia so that it could be developed to emphasize the very points you raised.

As I said many times, the Curia need not be about the awards and Constitution. What we lacked is a mandate for action. It is hard to argue with the admin for a change if so people actually participate. The Constitution before it was altered stated as much. The Curia is not without the power of change, it just lacks voice and willpower to do so. We are mired in pettiness and self- conceit. We have a poor self- concept with little faith and other citizens to do the "right thing." Citizenship is a unique concept which we are squandering because we feel it undermines our sense of egalitarianism.

I do not recall any radical proposals of change. Most proposals have been nibbling away at citizenship. Coupled this with the toxic debates, it is not a surprise that no one wants anything to do with this place. The conservatism is so pervasive no one is willing to take a chance on any change.

The Forrest is citizenship and we have definitely lost the value of what it is and what it means to the site.

In a nutshell, I agree with what you said... but getting people to actually move in a positive direction has been a real challenge. I have made several suggestions for discussion and overtures to form a committee for change and I have received little or no responses. Coupled this with the 4 or so people that go out of their way to be a jerk towards me and it has been a frustrating three years.

@Severus I feel what you mean. I once made a proposal. Some members voiced opposition. I stated I will take their point of view and mind and redraft my proposal. I was chastised for not adhering to the "majority will." Groupthink sucks!

[Lifthrasir]

(...) Coupled this with the 4 or so people that go out of their way to be a jerk towards me and it has been a frustrating three years.

Enough is enough PikeStance. These public rants don't help.

[General Brewster]

This is going to be the absolute last time I'm going to mention this. If this endless bashing cannot stop I will start shutting everyone who participates in it down without any mercy. I have mentioned it numerous times before and I am simply having enough of it right now. Take it somewhere else and as far away from the Curia as possible.

[m_1512]

Very few people take the view that the Curia isn't a pseudo-government though, and even by ceding extra-Curial matters to staff, there is still the prevailing opinion that the Curia has to make policy, draft legislation, exercise control and authority over things - even if all we have left are awards and the Constitution. We're all so zeroed in on this concept that we miss the forest through the trees. I'm of the firm belief that the Curia and Citizenship should remain, but I think we need a new way of thinking about it. Not the massive reforms that others have proposed, but a new mindset, and an acknowledgement that maybe the thing that the Curia does best isn't (or is no longer) politics, but bringing people together from across a very sprawling and divided website. If the Curia wasn't here, we would all be back in our insular communities, modding, writing, debating etc, and we would probably never cross paths with each other. We should be embracing the fact that the board does have a space that collects (nominally) the best of the best from each community here, and thinking about how we can represent the interests of said communities, forge new bonds between people, and actually do some good for the site.

Exactly! This is a fresh (and welcome) change of thought here. I'd welcome any community focused initiative that the Curia took, and I'd support it too. But it would need to be something that would benefit the community or provide some value contribution to the site users.

EDIT: If you have something specific in mind but not sure to post in public atm, do send out a PM to me and/or the Curator and we can talk about it.