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Thread: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 09.08.19)

  1. #141

    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 04.07.18)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dardo21 View Post
    I haven't had any replenishment issues either.
    Me either.

  2. #142
    ♔Greek Strategos♔'s Avatar THE BEARDED MACE
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    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 04.07.18)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dardo21 View Post
    I haven't had any replenishment issues either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Falco View Post
    Me either.
    Good to know.

  3. #143

    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 04.07.18)

    No Attrition edits, for those who do not work: rename kam_campaign_map_attrition_damages to am_campaign_map_attrition_damages

  4. #144
    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 04.07.18)

    I will release small update tomorrow to hopefully fix no attrition thing and someone reported issue with Roman cities income.
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  5. #145
    Crappy's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 04.07.18)

    Hey KAM, I recently started a new Seleucid campaign, and I noticed my satraps were fielding an absurd amount of units compared to other factions I was seeing. I'm not sure if its intended some units seem absurdly cheap with the mod, namely the Savar-i Zubindar (Daehae Skirmisher Cavalry), which had an upkeep of only 43 For my satraps Parthava and Parsa. My enemy, Parthia, was fielding the same unit, but its upkeep was 85. This leads me to believe there might be a discrepancy somewhere for certain factions? I can't see every unit in their armies, but it seems virtually all of them have an upkeep below 100, except for the elite units.

    Otherwise, I really enjoy the mod!

  6. #146

    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 04.07.18)

    Me: Macedon
    AI analyzed: Athens

    Epistratoi Hoplitai
    Upkeep for IA: 67
    Upkeep for player: 163

    Hipakontistai
    Upkeep for AI: 118
    Upkeep for player: 285

    Predicted Income for the next turn
    me: 1295 (treasury of 3000, just started a campaign near turn 20 right now)
    AI: Well I don't know but in Athens they are earning 5k !

    Result? I defeated their big army and in a less than 10 turns they have another fresh 20 stack army.

    I love the high building/unit costs but the IA ones (and I'm sure hiring costs) are way too favourable for them. Sure, IA needs some bonuses but not that much as it's breaking the balance. Maybe IA also has hidden income ? If that's the case removing it can be a solution.
    @KAM?
    Last edited by Tenerife_Boy; April 24, 2018 at 06:23 AM.

  7. #147

    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 04.07.18)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenerife_Boy View Post
    Me: Macedon
    IA analyzed: Athens

    Epistratoi Hoplitai
    Upkeep for IA: 67
    Upkeep for player: 163

    Hipakontistai
    Upkeep for IA: 118
    Upkeep for player: 285

    Predicted Income for the next turn
    me: 1295 (treasury of 3000, just started a campaign near turn 20 right now)
    IA: Well I don't know but in Athens they are earning 5k !

    Result? I defeated their big army and in a less than 10 turns they have another fresh 20 stack army.

    I love the high building/unit costs but the IA ones (and I'm sure hiring costs) are way too favourable for them. Sure, IA needs some bonuses but not that much as it's breaking the balance. Maybe IA also has hidden income ? If that's the case removing it can be a solution.
    @KAM?
    To be clear, are you saying the AI is pumping out too many armies/recruits? If so, I'll be darned, as I have been saying the exact opposite! We are not making this any easier on KAM! That's too funny.

  8. #148

    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 04.07.18)

    Quote Originally Posted by Satansblofish View Post
    To be clear, are you saying the AI is pumping out too many armies/recruits? If so, I'll be darned, as I have been saying the exact opposite! We are not making this any easier on KAM! That's too funny.
    One of the things I love about this mod is that the AI can't replace their defeated armies as fast as vanilla DEI, but I do agree with Tene, I think they can replace them a bit too fast currently.

  9. #149

    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 04.07.18)

    I'm not using the mod for now until KAM can check and fix this. There are 2 posible ways:
    1) Remove Hidden income.
    2) Reduce the Hidden income a bit and reduce the upkeep/cost for AI units to be more similar to player standards.

    I'm more prone of the first solution for 2 reasons. Having a high AI Hidden income is frustrating at the end of the day because you squeeze your brain to build up your economy while you see AI just recruiting units like if they don't care about anything else (why would they if they have all the money they want and more) and also this "a bit" solutions are more of a headacke for the modder, because what could be a bit for me can be a world for someone...it's a matter of taste.

    What I only know is that facts are facts and the ability of AI to rebuild their armies in less than 10 turns plus raise a second one with a few stacks is a fact.

    Another fact: This only leads you to a game were you are constantly at a defensive war (don't you dare attacking with the full garrisons in DeI, not to mention if the city is a walled one furthermore a coastal walled one like Athens, cause you need a fleet=more money) wich you can eventually win after....30 40 turns of exaustion? IF AND ONLY IF no one else attacks you. (and I had declaration of war by Ptolemaics wich luckily are too far to come with me, but imagine someone from my surroundings declare war and go into my territories? end of the game insta rage quit lol

    To be clear, I repeat: The idea behind this submod is the best I have seen so far, but I understand it's a very early W.I.P. and KAM need all our feedbacks to tweak this baby to a balanced point that pleased the majority of users.
    Things that I like:
    + Building cost.
    Things that I dislike/need tweaks:
    - Building income (increase a bit). I can not go with a cost of 14k and a profit of 600...at least give me 1k (the users saying that I ignore the resource income for trading?= yeah count on that for your economy, if no one wants to trade with you, you are d, gl)
    - AI bonuses to upkeep/costs.
    - Hidden income.

    Needless to say I'm not raging or something, hell I love DeI and will defend all the ecosystem we have created here. I'm the one going on twitch streamers or Youtubers or in totalwar official forum saying "Play DeI, try DeI and forget about your problems, DeI is Rome 3" and soo on.

    Cheers guys.

  10. #150

    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 04.07.18)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenerife_Boy View Post
    I'm not using the mod for now until KAM can check and fix this. There are 2 posible ways:
    1) Remove Hidden income.
    2) Reduce the Hidden income a bit and reduce the upkeep/cost for AI units to be more similar to player standards.

    I'm more prone of the first solution for 2 reasons. Having a high AI Hidden income is frustrating at the end of the day because you squeeze your brain to build up your economy while you see AI just recruiting units like if they don't care about anything else (why would they if they have all the money they want and more) and also this "a bit" solutions are more of a headacke for the modder, because what could be a bit for me can be a world for someone...it's a matter of taste.

    What I only know is that facts are facts and the ability of AI to rebuild their armies in less than 10 turns plus raise a second one with a few stacks is a fact.

    Another fact: This only leads you to a game were you are constantly at a defensive war (don't you dare attacking with the full garrisons in DeI, not to mention if the city is a walled one furthermore a coastal walled one like Athens, cause you need a fleet=more money) wich you can eventually win after....30 40 turns of exaustion? IF AND ONLY IF no one else attacks you. (and I had declaration of war by Ptolemaics wich luckily are too far to come with me, but imagine someone from my surroundings declare war and go into my territories? end of the game insta rage quit lol

    To be clear, I repeat: The idea behind this submod is the best I have seen so far, but I understand it's a very early W.I.P. and KAM need all our feedbacks to tweak this baby to a balanced point that pleased the majority of users.
    Things that I like:
    + Building cost.
    Things that I dislike/need tweaks:
    - Building income (increase a bit). I can not go with a cost of 14k and a profit of 600...at least give me 1k (the users saying that I ignore the resource income for trading?= yeah count on that for your economy, if no one wants to trade with you, you are d, gl)
    - AI bonuses to upkeep/costs.
    - Hidden income.

    Needless to say I'm not raging or something, hell I love DeI and will defend all the ecosystem we have created here. I'm the one going on twitch streamers or Youtubers or in totalwar official forum saying "Play DeI, try DeI and forget about your problems, DeI is Rome 3" and soo on.

    Cheers guys.
    Well I won't stop using the mod, but I do agree with these points. I too hope the submod gets tweaked in this direction.

  11. #151
    ♔Greek Strategos♔'s Avatar THE BEARDED MACE
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    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 04.07.18)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenerife_Boy View Post
    Needless to say I'm not raging or something, hell I love DeI and will defend all the ecosystem we have created here. I'm the one going on twitch streamers or Youtubers or in totalwar official forum saying "Play DeI, try DeI and forget about your problems, DeI is Rome 3" and soo on.
    Cheers guys.
    No one could misunderstand your intentions bro.

    @All
    KAM is very busy with RL and stuff guys so this is indeed a WIP. I'm sure he'll ''fix'' or tweak most of the pending issues as soon as he has the time.
    Last edited by ♔Greek Strategos♔; April 24, 2018 at 11:16 AM.

  12. #152

    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 04.07.18)

    How does this mod compare to the Hardcore mod plus reduced upkeep mod? I love the extended build times and times to get a province settled after taking it over, but the Hardcore mod makes diplomacy almost undoable at times. If I could get all the facets of the hardcore mod but with the diplomatic penalties slightly reduced I think I'd be in heaven.

    Playing Rome and 80 turns into my Hardcore play through on N/N and just launched into the first Punic war. Was able to conquer Sicily but Carthage has about 5 full stack navies prowling the Med. Should be great fun ahead! I just added the reduced upkeep mod into the mix about turn 75 and appreciated that little extra bump to income since getting new trade agreements is nigh impossible at this point as everyone hates me due to expansionism.

    Loving the play through!

  13. #153

    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 04.07.18)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenerife_Boy View Post
    Needless to say I'm not raging or something, hell I love DeI and will defend all the ecosystem we have created here. I'm the one going on twitch streamers or Youtubers or in totalwar official forum saying "Play DeI, try DeI and forget about your problems, DeI is Rome 3" and soo on.

    Cheers guys.
    I don't think anyone thinks you are raging bud. I for one am happy you are around the boards.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenerife_Boy View Post
    What I only know is that facts are facts and the ability of AI to rebuild their armies in less than 10 turns plus raise a second one with a few stacks is a fact.

    Another fact: This only leads you to a game were you are constantly at a defensive war (don't you dare attacking with the full garrisons in DeI, not to mention if the city is a walled one furthermore a coastal walled one like Athens, cause you need a fleet=more money) wich you can eventually win after....30 40 turns of exaustion? IF AND ONLY IF no one else attacks you. (and I had declaration of war by Ptolemaics wich luckily are too far to come with me, but imagine someone from my surroundings declare war and go into my territories? end of the game insta rage quit lol
    I am not experiencing the AI rapidly rebuilding their armies. I am experiencing the AI not building any maxed out armies or only a handful altogether. Smaller armies are the norm now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenerife_Boy View Post
    Things that I dislike/need tweaks:
    - Building income (increase a bit). I can not go with a cost of 14k and a profit of 600...at least give me 1k (the users saying that I ignore the resource income for trading?= yeah count on that for your economy, if no one wants to trade with you, you are d, gl)
    My understanding is that is intentional. You have to play politics to get those TA to help sustain your economy. I enjoy that aspect because it forces you to play the game differently. It's not as easy to be so self-serving in your campaigning efforts when you have real and potential income on the line. There are maybe 2 or 3 factions that truly struggle to get any trade deals right from turn 1(Sparta being one of them) so I haven't found that to be a problem. Epirus has some variability but this includes Pergamon, Macedon, Syracuse, etc. I also found after 40-50 turns political lines are drawn, so to speak, and you can manipulate the circumstances to get TA.

  14. #154

    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 04.07.18)

    a main city lvl4 circus makes 1200, but a lvl4 Stadium (the small town yellow PO building) makes 1800!

  15. #155
    Beedo83's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 04.07.18)

    Quote Originally Posted by hoho96 View Post
    a main city lvl4 circus makes 1200, but a lvl4 Stadium (the small town yellow PO building) makes 1800!
    I think the main city buildings need a boost to their income, feels like it would help balance things a bit better. Province capitals should be worth much more than a minor region IMO.

  16. #156
    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 04.07.18)

    I hope to reply and maybe even have something new to test tomorrow.
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  17. #157
    ♔Greek Strategos♔'s Avatar THE BEARDED MACE
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    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 04.07.18)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ardri View Post
    How does this mod compare to the Hardcore mod plus reduced upkeep mod? I love the extended build times and times to get a province settled after taking it over, but the Hardcore mod makes diplomacy almost undoable at times. If I could get all the facets of the hardcore mod but with the diplomatic penalties slightly reduced I think I'd be in heaven.

    Playing Rome and 80 turns into my Hardcore play through on N/N and just launched into the first Punic war. Was able to conquer Sicily but Carthage has about 5 full stack navies prowling the Med. Should be great fun ahead! I just added the reduced upkeep mod into the mix about turn 75 and appreciated that little extra bump to income since getting new trade agreements is nigh impossible at this point as everyone hates me due to expansionism.

    Loving the play through!
    You know that there is a version of Hardcore with NO CAI changes, right ?

  18. #158

    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 04.07.18)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ardri View Post
    How does this mod compare to the Hardcore mod plus reduced upkeep mod? I love the extended build times and times to get a province settled after taking it over, but the Hardcore mod makes diplomacy almost undoable at times. If I could get all the facets of the hardcore mod but with the diplomatic penalties slightly reduced I think I'd be in heaven.

    Playing Rome and 80 turns into my Hardcore play through on N/N and just launched into the first Punic war. Was able to conquer Sicily but Carthage has about 5 full stack navies prowling the Med. Should be great fun ahead! I just added the reduced upkeep mod into the mix about turn 75 and appreciated that little extra bump to income since getting new trade agreements is nigh impossible at this point as everyone hates me due to expansionism.

    Loving the play through!
    You can get the Hardcore mod w/ out the increased AI aggression. I think it's hardcore w/ no CAI.

    I have been using HC but have turned it off while I am using this mod. I had some conflicts where the buildings were cheaper than they were supposed to be.

    I think this mod offers more of a challenge. Everything is much more expensive. Right at turn 1, the player is forced to choose between investing in upgrading your settlement/province or investing in an army for expansion. There is next to no middle ground in your choices and each carries it's own risks vs rewards.

  19. #159

    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 04.07.18)

    Quote Originally Posted by Greek strategos View Post
    You know that there is a version of Hardcore with NO CAI changes, right ?
    I had no idea! Where is it on Steam?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  20. #160
    ScipioTheGreat's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 04.07.18)

    I don’t think the hardcore without aggression works with this mod unfortunately.

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