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Thread: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 09.08.19)

  1. #81

    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 03.31.18)

    In regards to Antigonidai - actually the Alternative Economy just spices things up, but does not modify the only strategy they have - expand ASAP or die

    Just started the campaign with them and in around 10-12 turns took Epirus (Apollonia), Aetolian League, Athens and will take Sparta in 1 turn. With current limited experience, I think the mod makes 2 biggest changes - army composition for player (you need to use basic units) and AI armies quantity, both of which feel great.

    First - there is no money for even a medium quality army (at least for Antigonidai), so I am forced to roll with basics, most of which I believe I never ever used before, since there were units with better units with higher price, but still affordable). Now I have 3k in bank, 6k income (only 1 full army and just took Athens which contributed 3.5k to income), and my army is Pezoi (semi-naked swordsmen), Akontistai (levy peltasts), Levy Slingers, Levy Archers, cheapest Missle Cav and 3 units of Chalkaspides. So really I have only 4 "regular" combat units - general and 3 phalanxes, and just was able to afford that in last 2 turns without going into negative.

    Second - AI would compose its troops based on "real" money it has / should have, and not spam 1-2 full stacks. I went with around 2-3 turns between taking each new city in one grand battle, and AI had limited armies (of low-medium quality, as they should, with same economy as me) - Epirus had 10-12 units, Aetolians 16-17, Athens 19 and Sparta has around 12.

    With all that said - I want to see how it goes once I encounter bigger + wealthier fractions and see how AI composes its armies, plus reacts to loss of defeated stacks, but overall - thank you, @Kam, mod feels great and heavily changed the standard strategies to those more logical and which "feel right".

  2. #82

    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 03.31.18)

    does this work with the 41 unit mod?

  3. #83
    ~Seleukos.I.Nikator~'s Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 03.31.18)

    Quote Originally Posted by finzy View Post
    does this work with the 41 unit mod?
    I see no reason why it wouldn't. Though, bear in mind that with this mod you can barely afford a 20-unit stack, let alone a 41 one!

  4. #84
    Nordling's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 03.31.18)

    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnar View Post
    In regards to Antigonidai - actually the Alternative Economy just spices things up, but does not modify the only strategy they have - expand ASAP or die

    Just started the campaign with them and in around 10-12 turns took Epirus (Apollonia), Aetolian League, Athens and will take Sparta in 1 turn. With current limited experience, I think the mod makes 2 biggest changes - army composition for player (you need to use basic units) and AI armies quantity, both of which feel great.

    First - there is no money for even a medium quality army (at least for Antigonidai), so I am forced to roll with basics, most of which I believe I never ever used before, since there were units with better units with higher price, but still affordable). Now I have 3k in bank, 6k income (only 1 full army and just took Athens which contributed 3.5k to income), and my army is Pezoi (semi-naked swordsmen), Akontistai (levy peltasts), Levy Slingers, Levy Archers, cheapest Missle Cav and 3 units of Chalkaspides. So really I have only 4 "regular" combat units - general and 3 phalanxes, and just was able to afford that in last 2 turns without going into negative.

    Second - AI would compose its troops based on "real" money it has / should have, and not spam 1-2 full stacks. I went with around 2-3 turns between taking each new city in one grand battle, and AI had limited armies (of low-medium quality, as they should, with same economy as me) - Epirus had 10-12 units, Aetolians 16-17, Athens 19 and Sparta has around 12.

    With all that said - I want to see how it goes once I encounter bigger + wealthier fractions and see how AI composes its armies, plus reacts to loss of defeated stacks, but overall - thank you, @Kam, mod feels great and heavily changed the standard strategies to those more logical and which "feel right".
    Try fighting Rome. They send stacks filled with triarii/principes at you - not cool, Rome, not cool!

  5. #85
    milohve01's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 03.31.18)

    excellent AI mod much more real economy and diplomacy more important to maintain a large army needs more resources AI is more real when recruiting their armies and keep them

  6. #86

    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 03.31.18)

    Quote Originally Posted by finzy View Post
    does this work with the 41 unit mod?
    Yeah, it works fine.

  7. #87

    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 03.31.18)

    20 turns in as Rome also playing with De AI Arbitis and Cultural Tensio, I already have control of all latinum and italia. Etrsucans are dead, Epirus is my client state. I have an one 20 stack (my usual historical build as listed in many many threads), 5 other generals as governors, 3 admirals.
    All town centers at level 2, several buildings being built (trade buildings in resource cities mostly). And my income is 24k per turn.

    It slowed me up a bit, but by turn 9 I was already just playing it like if I didn't have this mod installed.

    I've noticed that it seems to cripple the ai. They can't build any worthwhile troops and hardly any of them are upgrading any town centers or constructing buildings. Of everyone I know, only Syracuse and Massalia have upgraded their capital building. No one else. A few have built a farm or barbarian small town sanitation chain.

    I think it's the worst for Carthage as they have so many cities but can't hope to upgrade much of anything.


    I'll pick it back up again Friday night and play some more. But so far, while interesting, it really seems to hurt the AI more than anything else.

  8. #88

    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 03.31.18)

    Really like the idea of this. What are the costs of Auxiliary troops like compared to Roman infantry for example? Will it be necessary to fill out the ranks of your army with Aux troops now instead of full stack legions due to the costs?

    Thanks!

  9. #89
    Nordling's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 03.31.18)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Moscavich View Post
    20 turns in as Rome also playing with De AI Arbitis and Cultural Tensio, I already have control of all latinum and italia. Etrsucans are dead, Epirus is my client state. I have an one 20 stack (my usual historical build as listed in many many threads), 5 other generals as governors, 3 admirals.
    All town centers at level 2, several buildings being built (trade buildings in resource cities mostly). And my income is 24k per turn.

    It slowed me up a bit, but by turn 9 I was already just playing it like if I didn't have this mod installed.

    I've noticed that it seems to cripple the ai. They can't build any worthwhile troops and hardly any of them are upgrading any town centers or constructing buildings. Of everyone I know, only Syracuse and Massalia have upgraded their capital building. No one else. A few have built a farm or barbarian small town sanitation chain.

    I think it's the worst for Carthage as they have so many cities but can't hope to upgrade much of anything.


    I'll pick it back up again Friday night and play some more. But so far, while interesting, it really seems to hurt the AI more than anything else.
    I think that playing as Rome you are indeed in much better position than without the mod - simppy because you got whole peninsula for your own, you can sit back and roll out new buildings and then proceed to conquer the world with that economic backbone working for ya. Its easier cuz AI small facyions have even fewer soldiers and are less of threat. Its one of the reasons why Rome is labelled as "easy"

    Carthage is hit hard by this mod, I guess. They need to develop their provinces but they cant cuz of all the wars. But they get good buffs to PO as AI so that might be a balancing fact for them.

    All in all, I rly like the mod cuz it makes me consider my arky composition much deeper, however it might make steamrolling smaller factions even easier.

  10. #90
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    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 03.31.18)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Moscavich View Post
    I have an one 20 stack (my usual historical build as listed in many many threads), 5 other generals as governors, 3 admirals.
    Why 3 admirals though ?


    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan_Moscavich View Post
    I've noticed that it seems to cripple the ai. They can't build any worthwhile troops and hardly any of them are upgrading any town centers or constructing buildings. Of everyone I know, only Syracuse and Massalia have upgraded their capital building. No one else. A few have built a farm or barbarian small town sanitation chain.
    That'd be quite serious.

  11. #91

    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 03.31.18)

    I level up admirals early on so they have some promotions when i need to use boats.

    Also helps balance of power in the Senate.

    Also, three ports, three admirals.

    Oddly cheaper to maintain a trireme then a unit of Cavalry with this sub mod for some reason.

  12. #92
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    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 03.31.18)

    Thanks for all the reports!

    Ivan, on what difficulty are you playig? In last update I toyed with difficulty settings and for example AI on normal might get too low bonuses compared to for example very hard AI.
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  13. #93

    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 03.31.18)

    Since I had limited time I was just doing a normal normal.. I typically try to run consecutive files with different difficulty when I testing stuff like that.

    So I definitely say increase the AI bonuses for normal.

  14. #94
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    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 03.31.18)

    I will try to get new test version tomorrow
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  15. #95

    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 03.31.18)

    I've noticed some factions are making strange building choices. I just took a settlement from Parsa as Seleucids and they had the main building, then 2 of the same building as the other 2 buildings in the town (so the settlement (wine), then 2 animal breeders.
    Last edited by Falco; April 05, 2018 at 06:56 PM.

  16. #96
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    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 03.31.18)

    Small update released:
    -Increased AI bonus for lower buildings cost (They should develop own cities more)
    -Slightly increased income from main buildings in Sparta (for better player and AI experience)
    -Lowered upkeep of Macedonian general bodyguard units (Since we can't edit income from main buildings in Pella as custom one causes issues there).
    -Slightly increased AI hidden income bonus (gives small boost to smallest factions, does not have much effect on larger factions)
    -Decreased AI unit upkeep by 5%
    -cleaned up files a bit for better compatibility with other submods

    Plan for next update:
    -Take a better look at AI bonuses depending on difficulty level
    -Try to better understand AI building policies and budget allocations
    -Maybe increase starting money a bit
    -
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  17. #97

    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 03.31.18)

    Quote Originally Posted by KAM 2150 View Post
    Small update released:
    -Increased AI bonus for lower buildings cost (They should develop own cities more)
    -Slightly increased income from main buildings in Sparta (for better player and AI experience)
    -Lowered upkeep of Macedonian general bodyguard units (Since we can't edit income from main buildings in Pella as custom one causes issues there).
    -Slightly increased AI hidden income bonus (gives small boost to smallest factions, does not have much effect on larger factions)
    -Decreased AI unit upkeep by 5%
    -cleaned up files a bit for better compatibility with other submods

    Plan for next update:
    -Take a better look at AI bonuses depending on difficulty level
    -Try to better understand AI building policies and budget allocations
    -Maybe increase starting money a bit
    -
    I agree about the increase in starting money, especially for bigger factions.

  18. #98

    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 04.07.18)

    If we decide to implement the more building slots , definitely this submod would better be the standard DeI economy. I vote for it !
    Economy is having more and more relevant and meaninful with it

  19. #99

    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 04.07.18)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenerife_Boy View Post
    If we decide to implement the more building slots , definitely this submod would better be the standard DeI economy. I vote for it !
    Economy is having more and more relevant and meaninful with it
    If the More Building Slots mod works out and is at some point incorporated into DeI, that would be amazing.

  20. #100

    Default Re: [Submod] Alternative Economy (Updated 04.07.18)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenerife_Boy View Post
    If we decide to implement the more building slots , definitely this submod would better be the standard DeI economy. I vote for it !
    Economy is having more and more relevant and meaninful with it
    Holy ! That's awesome! Am I wrong in thinking it would be a ton of work implementing it in DeI because it involves startpos?
    Last edited by Falco; April 08, 2018 at 07:26 AM.

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