Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

[xzyx]

Tell me what you think of this idea:

2 lines of infantry, archers and cavalry far behind:

IIIIIIIIIIIIIII

IIIIIIIIII


AAA

CCCCC

when engaging the enemy line, the first dudes hold the line and second reinforce wherever I'm loosing, and starts flanking them. Any attempt of flanking is imeddiately stopped my cavalry (unless theirs is hugely superior in numbers, but then my infantry would easily defeat theirs). The archers must be elite, and remain as suport fire arrows to help in the routing process. Against AI, I also leave a couple light cavalry behind to pursue the fleeing enemies.

Once, I managed to loose only 5 men in a full stack vs full stack battle because the entire enemy army fled as soon as my second line engaged (they didn't have cavalry, and my own was already flanking them from behind)

Can someone tell me if this is a good strategy? I'm looking foward to improving it.

[Toorima]

Well this is a nice formation, quite like one I often use. A little variation to the two lines of infantry is what I call the "chessboard-formation". The second infantry unit in line is set back at the length of the first and so on. This way you'll have a long front line but still can engage the units staying back wherever it is necessary.

[MedievalDragoon]

I would try using historical strategys and tactics that won the battles they were used in.

[grumpygoat]

Hey, i bought the game yesterday and i cant wait till it arrives =). Ive read some posts, but i havent found how to counter an oblique line formation. Ive been thinking on trying to pierce the weak center, fortify the side thats going to receive the heaviest blow, but if someone knows a good tactic plz share it =).

Edit: Btw dragoon I bought the game mainly because i believe tactics are more important here, and i love trying new formations as well (been trying some in Alexander but i believe this ones better)

[hitokiri2486]

I would say the best way to counter an oblique formation would be to adopt the same formation yourself. In a real life situation, if you screened the enemy and concentrated your own forces on the opposite side of the enemy's concentrated force, you can catch them by surprise; tactically withdrawing your weak flank would cause the concentrated force to overextend and expose themselves, and your own heavy flank can just sweep around, smash their weak side and roll up the line. I emphasize the importance of screening, because if the enemy is aware of your line disposition, it obviously won't work.

Can you do this in M2TW? Unfortunately no, it's very easy for the player to tell the disposition of forces of the enemy army. But I'm sure it would work well against an inexperienced player who wouldn't realize what's going on or the AI which isn't very smart to begin with.

[Morkonan]

For an open field battle simply use the following formation/sequence that was used ad-nauseum for over one thousand years during the Medieval period...

------------------Enemy --------------------

------------------Archers-------------------
Hvy Cavalry-------Infantry------Hvy Cavalry
-------------Infantry Reserves--------------

--------------Cavalry Reserves---------------

The battle sequence is as follows...
1-Infantry advances toward the enemy with Archers out front 'Screening' them from counter attack.
2-Infantry engages the enemy and 'Fixes' them (prevents them from moving). *This is the KEY to the whole sequence.
3-Once the enemy line is fixed, your Hvy Cavalry 'Charges Home' (attacks the weakest point in the enemy line) and wins the field.
Note A-Infantry Reserves are used to plug any holes in your main Infantry line during the fixing stage and to counter any flanking attempts.
Note B-Cavalry Reserves are primarily used to 'Exploit' an enemy collapse by chasing down routing enemy units after the sucess of the initial Hvy Cavary charges. However, they can also be used to reinforce the initial Hvy Cavalry charges or can simply be held out of the battle and saved to counter any unforseen turn of events.

Notice that the idea is to remove your opponents ability to move while retaining YOUR ability to move and then using this advantage not to overwhelm them but to out-maneuver them.
Here are two suggestions to achieving this result...

1-'Fixing' the ENTIRE enemy line.
Use your Infantry to fix your enemies infantry AND Cavalry (yes, this can be difficult). Alternately you could use cavalry to fix his cavalry but you MUST NOT USE your Heavy Cavalry to do this because it has to be saved for the 'Decisive' strike.
2-Deciding Where/When to target your 'Charge Home'.
By far, the most powerful skill a commander can posess is the ability to correctly decide WHERE the weak point is in an enemy line and WHEN to strike there. If you can do this well you have my admiration because very few can (including me).

'Heavy Cavalry IS God' (untill the advent of artillery) and for a millenium literally NEVER lost a battle and this fact is precisely mirrored in Total War. Of course there are variations and exceptions to the formation/sequence above but this is the basic formula that transformed barbaric western war-lords into the mighty nations that run the world today.

I agree completely with all of this. It's also one of the most flexible formations, suitable for attack or defense. The cavalry placement can be changed depending upon terrain or the task at hand. But, this is the cookie-cutter "Shotgun Formation" (To borrow from US Football slang) of ancient warfare. There's nothing you really can't do with it. No fancy tricks required and very few maneuvers that don't rely totally on battlefield conditions that can bypass its strengths.

[Ater Draco]

This isnt quite a formation, but i like to use it anyway:

H= Heavy Infantry
L= Light Infantry
M= Missile Units
C= Cavalry
G= General
CCCCCCC HHHHHHHH HHHHHHHH HHHHHHHH CCCCCCCC
LLLLLLLL G LLLLLLLLL
MMMMMMMM LLLLLLL MMMMMMMMMMM


I keep my heavy infantry on the frontlines as long as I can. But when their morale and stamina get low I switch off with the light infantry (they mop up weakened units very well). I have that third light unit in the middle ready to support any one of the other light units that may need help. If that fails, my cavalry are up front (protected by spearmen if possible) ready to flank the enemy forces. All while my archers are peppering them with arrows (yes I know about freindly fire). If all else fails, my general is kept close in the middle of it all, keeping morale high.
Sorry it looks sloppy, the light infantry and general are supposed to be in the middle, I tried to edit it but it didnt work =(

[sirfiggin]

Normally play as byzantium in mods, so normally have:

I= heavy infantry and spears
A= foot archers and missile units
M=mounted archers
C= cavalry (heavy)

MMM IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII MMM
MMM AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA CCC
CCC CCC

Infantry mainly used to keep the enemy facing the centre, so the cavalry flanks are drawn wide. Mounted archers are sparingly used to provoke an offensive assault, or to wittle the enemy if he stays put. If the enemy won't move, the infantry and heavy cavalry are steadily brought forward while the mounted archers suppress the enemy with heavy volleys. Once the melee troops are in range, the mounted archers are ordered to begin a charge, preferably whilst still charging, then auto fire is cancelled and they engage the weakest points in the enemy line, before quickly withdrawing. During the first engagement the heavy cavalry should already be running, so that the second wave of charge hits the enemy before his line can recover or remobilise, the advantage of such a strategy becomes clear if the front ranks of the enemy are put into disorder, 20 to 30 percent of the enemy can be dalt with in this manner before the infantry closes into engagement range. After two to three cavalry charges upon the flanks and weakest parts of the front, the missile infantry should be in range, the more to disorder effective hostile maneuvering until the infantry line engages. The best line of infantry has pikes and heavy spears in the centre, with offensive infantry to the flanks, in one deep line. Not only does this allow higher concentrations of cavalry in your ranks, it provides more durability in a long melee, as deeper ranks absorb attacks more easily. With pikes at the centre, the enemy line is usually divided in two, allowing more effective exploitation from the cavalry, while the pikes can push forwards and split the enemy force. By now they should crumble.

[Hobbes]

cavalry ftw! no one can defeat me when I have cavalry!

[sirfiggin]

only with missile cavalry.... or elephants

[Aldehyde]

I found a very interesting tactic for open field battles which works pretty good for both offense and defense. Don't know if it works in the later parts of the game but anyway. I play grand campaign as England and my two main armies consists of light cavalry and longbowmen and some spears.

C = Light Cavalry
LB = Longbowmen
S = Spears
G = General

CCCCCCC---- LB LB LB LB LB LB LB
---------------------S S S
-----------------------G

I will flank the enemy with the cavalry and weaken them up alot, i mean alot, with my archers. They can't really catch the light cavalry and my archers can shoot quite a bit before they reach them. And since I have poles set up in front of my archers they can't charge me with cavalry and if they would go around with cavalry my spears are there to greet them.

Meanwhile my light cavalry are just harassing the out of them, this is quite a bit of micro management since they are so fragile and if I lose them I have pretty much lost everything.

So it pretty much looks like this after a short bit:

-------C C C C C C C C C

--------E E E E E E E E E


-------LB LB LB LB LB LB LB
-------------S S S
---------------G

It's a fun tactic, at least for me. I just love watching those bowmen shoot and watch the devastation which they cause. That's why England is my favorite faction.

[Infection]

In a defense siege, I normally don't have a huge army in the castle, so i have to be careful what i do with em.
First i place as many defensive infantry as i have infront of the gate, and obviously all the archers on the walls
If the enemy has siege towers of ladders, and they don't look like thier gonna get shot down ill take an equal stregth infantry unit from the gate and place it were the towers gonna land, caus they'l get a huge bonus from being on the walls.
If they have ranged catapults/cannons and i don't have towers that can reach them then my general will charge out, destroy the crews, and get back in fast.
Ill then let them batter down my gate, and by this time my cavalry, if i have any, will have went out another gate and circled round behind them out of view
When they all charge into the gate, and my infantry, hopefully, hold them ill have the cavalry charge in from the back and my general charge in from behind the infantry. This will make most units try to flee, and then go into fight to the death mode. This way i get a load of captives with minimal losses to the better units. The cheaper infantry take a bit of beating though

[skallagrimsson]

A way of defending a breach, bridge or a gate:


-------EEE----------
WWWW-EE-WWWWW
-----I --E --I-------
-----I ------I-------
------I-I-I-I--------

W=wall
E=enemy
I=my infantry


When the enemy rushes in to the breah your units directly in front of the enemy should stand ground, while the flank troops should charge the enemy from the right and left. This makes the enemy surrounded on three sides, and it doesnt take long untill they break and retreat (if you are lucky they will be in they way of later enemy troops trying to attack through the narrow hole). By letting the enemy into the trap, instead of just massing your troop in the breach the traditional way, you will gain a superb moral advantage.

PS: Of course you should leave apropriate units on the walls to deal with ladders or siege towers. But to me the Breach defense is the most vital, the walls often takes quite of time of fighting before the enemy can take them, and by that time you gate-defenders has routed the enemy and can deal with the walls.

"Frihet under ansvar"

[chaplainDMK]

Usualy in open battles i deploy my 3 calvary units on the side in a tight formation, put all my ranged units infront (archers, balistas etc.) and my melee fighters behind (for now mostly spear militia, billmen or dismounted knights) and my general along with any artillery behind the rest. I fight my battles were cautiusly since i have yet to loose a battle i went into. I always check that i have more units and that the enemy has no reinforcments since those can realy throw a spanner in the works if your in the middle of a attack.
My first thing to do is deploy rangers with flaming ammo in range of the enemy and rain fire on them. This demorilizes them for my melee charge witch is concentrated (3-6 units vs 1 or 2) to maximise the moral impact witch will mean that those 2 units run away. At that time my calvary witch sticks close to the action makes a charge into the enemy and usualy breaks them. Then i just waste the routing enemies. Also, if theres a general ill use my calavary to swing around their troops and eliminate him. I never use my general in combat unless its realy dire or its just for chasing enemies. On the other hand the death of the enemy general is a key part of my strategy since im more for making my enemies run then defeat them in open combat.

[skallagrimsson]

but why keep the missile units hidden in the back? If you place them up forward they can begin fire at the enemy sooner, and as soon as they gets closer you can just retreat them.

[OdinX]

------------------------EEEEEEEEEEEEEE-----------------------




GGGGGGGG------------MMMMMMMMMMM-------------CCCCCCCC
GGGGGGGG------------AAAAAAAAAAAAA-------------CCCCCCCC
GGGGGGGG------------SSSSSSSSSSSSS
--------------IIIIII------------------------IIIIIII---------------

This is my usual formation on an open-field battle. My cavalry units and General are way off more to the side to ensure flanking and I either have Heavy Infantry or Infantry in general to back up the spear men. When the enemy gets to close, the Archers and Missile units split and the fighting ensues, flanking, win.

[Nazgûl Killer]

Well, I might just be so terribly late, but I only joined now and this is a thread I wanted to answer to, and fast.

1) Open Field:
Depends on the faction I'm with, if I'm a faction with good cavalry archers/cavalry or infantry, it varies.
If I were to be with... Hungary for example, I'd send half my archer cavalry to one side, the others to the other, and make them run until they reach the back of the enemy army, where they can start throwing and showering them with arrows or javelins, it works magnificently, and my infantry (Not along with my general[s]) I put in a defensive box formation, spearmen at the flanks, heavy infantry, light infantry and several spearmen at the front and the archers behind them, if I have enough men, I put some light infantry/spearmen in a very loose 2 line formation behind the archers, incase of extreme-flanking. My general(s) and heavy cavalry I send to the side, and make them wait, when the two armies clash I use my heavy cavalry to destroy the archers, the generals to destroy the enemy generals, and after that task is complete, to kill the rest of the enemy's army, it's pretty much the same with all the rest of the factions, if I am defending, just without the cavalry archers, and without them I just get alot more heavy infantry for pushing the enemy back.

Open Field - Me attacking:
I'm quite ashamed to say that even at VH/VH, I don't have any real tactic for it. I send my infantry (Usualy spearmen and light infantry in first) onto the defensive formation of my foe, so they get hit and not the rest of my important units, the archers run to the flanks and start firing at the enemy, and the cavalry flank them, if I have archer cavalry (Which I find to be VERY helpful in attacking) I send them with my heavy cavalry for support and running down their cavalry, as they are extremely fast.

That concludes open field.
2) Defensive Siege...
At this I am happy to say I have PLENTY of experiece, having playing the HRE and Italian states, and lest I forget, France; what I do is try to guess (usualy extremely successfuly) where the enemy will place their ladders, and place my INFANTRY (Not spearmen, INFANTRY, any type, light, heavy) at the walls at that position, the archers I put on the parts of the wall which I think are unlikely to be raided by the enemy, or are impossible for ladders to climb on (Too narrow). Worst case scenario: I was mistaken and the enemy put their ladders elsewhere, I work very fast in M2TW battle mode as I got used to it very quickly thanks to Shogun and Rome Total War, micromanagement to the bone, so I make all my archers flee from that position, to the position where my infantry were, and vise versa with my infantry, so I have that part covered, all my spearmen I place at the gate, every single unit, and if they break the wall I just make all the men on the wall run downwards and protect the breach. (Not archers, archers stay at the corner of the wall so they shoot the people entering through the breach), cavalry I place at the sides of the gate, so if and when the gate is destroyed and the courtyard is taken, the flank the attacking force and take it back. It usualy works, when it doesn't I just flee to the Plaza and set a bottleneck, which rarely happens because if they took the courtyard, I usualy already lost.

3) Offensive Siege [City + Castle]
My tactics aren't too different for city or castle, I build 2 ladders, 1 siege ladder (Just incase) and 2 rams (Yet again, just incase), and if I have catapults, it's just too easy. I breach the walls and destroy the towers with the catapults if I have them, and after I do that I send my ram to destroy the gate, and the 2 ladder units (Usualy big-shielded spearmen) to the undestroyed walls, and 1 heavy infantry unit after each ladder (Breaching unit), 2 infantry units of any kind (Including spearmen) after the ram (More breaching units) and I don't send in my archers/cavalry until the courtyard is COMPLETELY taken and the foe retreated to the Plaza (I made that mistake once, I lost 2 generals and my heir, so my advice: Don't do it, all it takes is one moment of lack of concentration). Once the foe has retreated to the Plaza I set my archers on the unbroken walls, I send my cavalry from side streets and my infantry from the main street, and simply crush the forces in the Plaza, I will explain: The archers on the wall are from experience, it happened to me before that the foe in the plaza managed to defeat me, and it started running after me, so I set my archers up there because I didn't want to worry about them dying, so they defended my troops while they were running in order to regroup, it was the best thing I ever done because I killed his general and it won me the battle.
2nd option: Instead of putting the archers on the walls, I place my cavalry to the right and left of the Plaza, my infantry right on the main road to it, and wait. I bring my archers (And or siege equipment) behind my infantry, and start opening fire at the defending forces at the plaza, in order to weaken them enough for minimum casualties.
Castle differences:
-As advanced castles usualy have strong towers and 2 levels of walls, I never attack a castle unless I have 2 siege ladders.
-Once my foe has routed from the first level, I reuse my siege equipment for the 2nd level.
-I send my light infantry and spearmen in first as the heavy infantry are way too valuable to die to towers.
-I NEVER send my cavalry in, only when I'm sieging the 2nd level.
-Archers are of no use to me in castle battles, with some exceptions.

This pretty much sums it up... Oh right... Formations for open field, I didn't manage to make the formations as the box is smaller than the real post, so I decided not to because after 4 tries it gets old. You can easily imagine it though, I've given a nice description, and using your imagination can't hurt


* I know I didn't say anthing about Light Cavalry, I know, but I rarely use them and they come to no use to me because all they know is run and die, which annoys me, I use them to further defend the flanks of my infantry and or run over routing cavalry.

[CaeserAugustus]

G-General
HC-Heavy cavalry
LC-light cavalry
X-crossbowmen
I-Infantry

LCLC________IIIIIIIIIIIIIII___XXXX_____
___________HC______HC________LCLC
_______________G__________________

I hate having my archers at front because they dont have long before their army reaches mine then they have to fire from the back which sucks. The idea is to have the crossbowmen fire as they approach like usual but they dont have to stop when the infantry engage. If they try to attack archers intercept with the right flank light cavalry and heavy too if necessary. Once infantry pin down their army move left flank heavy cavalry a bit to the left to prepare for a flank charge and left light cavalry back behind their army to charge their rear. All the while you crossbowmen fire without having to arch right on the enemy's flank. Crossbowmen in this role have a shotgun effect and this is one of my favorite strategies.

[Nikolaos_K]

I can only refer to my field battles strategy which usually remains same in every battle...either assault or defence :

Well....In a normal campaign scenario...were due to lack of infinate money i cannot field always an army full of elite units i use a concept which was used by ancient Greek Phalanx armies of Athens in order to crush enemies even against great odds asf (well with a few changes as at The Battle of Marathon the Athenians did not field any Heavy cavalry or cavalry at all hehe :

------ PLS CLICK ON THE THUMBNAILS FOR A SCEMATIC APPEARENCE OF EACH PHASE ---

PHASE 1:

M: missile Units
I: Infantry (Either Heavy or Normal or Light)
S: Spears
C: Heavy Cavalry (Kataphracts since i play the Byzantine Empire)
L: Light Cavalry (Stratiote or any kind of Light Lancer BUT NOT mounted archers)


I split the army in the following groups as swon in the drawing.

PHASE 2:

Now on the next phase of the battle i forward the whole army towards the enemy at shooting distance in order fr my missiles to start shooting but must take care not to change the distances between the groups. Now the important thing is that the AI while on frontal attacks tends to attack your "weakest units" first... 9/10 times. That is very critical fr the abv strategy to work...So if everything goes fine and the enemy is lured in the center...(you got to help this happening by projecting a big frontal area with your missiles and harrassing the enemy's centre by skirmishing..running back and forth faking a melee attack with secondary wepons etc..) the battlefield should look like this:





PHASE 3:

Now in the 2nd phase of the above startegy as you can obviously see this gets you into a position to DOUBLE ENVELOPE the enemy's centre by a crushing double flank attack from your wings while he is trying to kill your missiles troops (Important.: i have noticed that you need quite a few missile troops to be able to lure the enemy effectively).. Please note that you do not attack with every unit in you flank...as you noticed the rear ranks of my flanks are spearmen..(or pike if you want) the reason is that after you envelope the center..the AI usually charges its Cavalry at your back to brake the encirclement...so the tactic is shown as following(in the meantime my Cavalry has taken its time to go a long round trip behind enemy lines):



At this phase there are 3 possible outcomes:

1)
After a while the central enemy units route..if not totally anihilated at spot. If the enemy cavalry charges at your flanking units you have the spears readied for them... You cavalry comes from behind and finishes of the enemy cavalry which is entangled in your spears...You know the rest....chain routing...Victory within a few seconds...

2)
If Enemy's infantry units are top quality/elite (usually my case especially during late era ) so they dont get damaged enough even with the double/triple flanking (with the counter attack) tactic shown above. When this happens they do not route and AI reasonably sends the rest of melee or even cavalry troops to create a big messy "sandwich" at the centre looking something like that:

As you can imagine you begin consecutive cavalry charges in the enemys rear hoping to break them and start routing...you can use light cavalry then for capturing routers.

Final Phase:




There are a few advantages and 2 BIG disadvatages in this tactic which are asf:

1) It Can give you victory even against great Odds. With WAYYY to many enemy casualties..enemy does not just flee...they get Anihilated .

2) Very Fast... Most of the times the crushing attack at the centre terrifies the AI armies and they Flee battle within a few seconds (Yes i know about the full cavalry army and the frontal charge...but its not realistic...im talking about balanced realistic synthesis of an army with all basic kinds of units)

3) Gives you control of the battle to a certain extent. You get to control the engagement. Does not necessarily need all kind of elite troops..but good versions of the basic 3...Infantry (mixed with Spears) , quite a few Missiles just for luring the enemy in center and thus becoming the "bait" for the entrapment (achers with sec. Sword?) and a good load of hevy cavalry including your general's bodygrds).

Disadvantages:

1)If the enemys majority of melee troops have better stats than any of your infantry then the whole tactic goes to waste because the centre does not break even when encircled they do not break but instead they kill all of your flanking troops...in this case only way to anticipate is to flank them only with one wing and leave the other flank of their central attacking units open for charge by your cavalry. At this point your wing which skips the flanking attack should march even further to intercept any attack to your charging cavalry as shown:



2) The second and biggest problem of this tactic is that it is VERY VEEEERY deifficult to perform.... Needs perfect timing....and needs to move all different wings at the SAME TIME and accurately...Believe me..in same battles with same General's stats, same enemy units, same all things, i have had different outcomes due to a slight inaccuracy of handling the units (one wing marching just a bit further than the other...cavalry not lined up fr charge on time or not chargin to good due to terrain abnormalities...spears not placed too tight in the flanks pointing outward...) Needs a lot of practice to master...but if you perform it correctly and Accurately you can achieve heroic victories.

That was my humble battle tactic.. Well its not just that cause it has many more Micromanagement in it but it will take too long. Pls feel free to ask me fr any clarifications that you may need.

Pls kindly let me know of your opinions/ suggestions.

P/S: pls forginve my English...as for the Drawings i know they look messy but i had to do them in simple MSpaint...i hope that you get my point though!

Best Regards,
Nikolaos

+ Εν ΤουΤω ΝικΑ +

[niteflyp38]

Open Field Battle (defending):

3 units Archers (A)
4 units Spearmen (S)
6 units Heavy Inf. (H)
2 units Light Cav (L)
4 units Heavy Cav (C)
1 General (G

L ________ SHHHHS_________ L
HHH____ SA H A H AS_______ HHH
____________G________________
I set all my units to gaurd mode, because I find that when one unit quickly routes an enemy unit and then breaks formation to chase after them, it becomes much more difficult to manuever units to react to new threats if they are scattered over the field. Also, isolated units make easy targets for enemy cavalry, and other attackers, and leave holes in my line. I turn off skirmish mode on my archers, so they will stand behind my infantry line and fire on the enemy troops the whoe time they advance and are engaged.

I use my light cavalry to take out enemy archers, whenever they come forward. If the enemy has missle cav, I will run my light and heavy cav towards them, then engage with my light cav to hold them in place for a unit of heavy cav to join the fight and finish them off. I move my cavalry forward and to the flanks, until they are sort of encircling the enemy from a distance.

____H_______________ H
H_______________________ H

H_______ EEEEEE__________ H
L_______ EEEEEE___________L
________SHHHHS__________
______SA H A H AS
__________G

Once the enemy has engaged my formation of infantry, I charge my cavalry into their rear and flanks. The enemy breaks and routs.

Defending a city:

When defending against a cavalry heavy faction, like the Mongols for example, I try to have about 4 units of archers on the walls, a few units of heavy infantry to defend those archers and repel ladders/towers, and then a of spearmen/pikemen in schiltrom or spear wall formation bunched up right in front of the gate. Their ram batters down my gate, and their cav charge in rigt into my wall of spears.

Against not so cav heavy factions, I just substitute Heavy Infantry for those spearmen, and still bunch them against the gate, so that my archers can continue to fire into their mass outside the walls, and the gate can pour boiling oil on them. Once again, its important to have your men in guard mode so they don't break and give chase.


Edit: Whoaaaa, it totally screwed up the spacing on my formations when I submitted the post. It's like it ignored the spaces I put in between letters.....