Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

[HolyRomanEmperor]

but the ballistia would! the byzantine cavalry would be more of a barrier against the better european knights, but the byzantine tactic in my case would be to destroy the enemy infantry first. i found even use my lousy spearmen and vangurians against the knights. anyway BYZANTINE SPEARMEN SUCK! Thats why if possible i would use a pikemen mod.

ya i would probably bring artillery as well I also dont always have the pikes first usually i will take 4 heavy infintry and spear units and place them in a box outside of the first box

[emperornovaroma]

a box outside of a box.....:hmmm:would that be more effective or still be just another box

[TheTrueGreek]

i think that would isolate himself, just charge a few cav into them and you inf, he can do anything without comprimising his pikes

[emperornovaroma]

box formations i feel lack a sense of fluidity in battle

[TheTrueGreek]

a box formation is weak because it cannot withstand a focussed attack, so like in rome with the greek cities, you should never do a box because you cannot have cavalry superiority, the same works for scotland. once the enemy gains cavalry superiority, he can force the opponet to be completly motionless, as movement would allow for the cavalry to enter the box, then, once he has used all his missles, he charges inf, and holds cav out of all the sides, thus, one or two pikes are fighting 4-6 dismounted knights, its an automatic win, as once the box has been opened, your hitting the back of the units and they cannot turn without getting charged by knights

[HolyRomanEmperor]

Like i said before i only use this formation on people who play all heavy cavalry armies

[emperornovaroma]

which is either never or their heavy cavalry intense armies at least have infantry support. only feeble minded people would use excess amounts of heavy cavalry. either way your box is weak to attack even by cavalry. you move you box, you die. you stay in one place, you die. its a no-win situation. boxes vs at least a sensible general equal TOTAL DEATH. and i think even against all cavalry armies, they still have a chance to win if not with most of their men dieing. your pikemen may defeat them on the charge but not in prolonged hand to hand combat, not with alot of them.

[Cuahtemoc]

a box formation is weak because it cannot withstand a focussed attack,

Hmm...are you including defensive squares? A simple defensive square of 4 units of pikes can be (quite) effective. I was experimenting with it today, and the casualties were a bit minimal, although I have yet to put this classic tactic to a huge stress test.

A combined arms force of Pikemen (of course, the most common and important unit here), Missiles (usuallly Pavise Crossbowmen or gunners), and high-trajectory siege equipment can be quite effective. And also 3-4 units of (missile) cavalry for support or anti-missile/ cav attack.

Heres how it would usually go:

M M M M M
M P P P P M
M P A A P M
M P A A P M
M P P P P M
M M M M M


C C C

M-Missile
P-Pikemen
A-Artillery (also it would be good if one adds in a Caroccio Standard/Great Cross)
C-(Missile) Cavalry

Heres two screenshots...but I forgot to take some in action...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Golden Horn]

When attacking a fortified place i set up my siege equipment and bombard all threatening towers and open 3 breaches in the wall.

1 if the enemy moves in to the breach they are perfect targets for my artillery fire.

2 If not my infantry (heavily armored) move in and set up bottle necks and let the enemy forces expend them selves.

3 Once the enemy retreats to the city center the army comes up and shells them with artillery and mass archers to weaken them infantry advance and finish.

[baabaaloo]

how about a longbow stake square <(^^,)> good if your fighting the mongols... as the english....

[TheTrueGreek]

the stake square is still weak as you intitled to stay put in the square, you lose any of your menuvaribility, if you did that while im milan, id kill your archers with my crossbows, then ruin you inf, once i charge my inf in, youll be severly weakened and you morale will be really reduced, you can say my cav would be worthless yes, but my crossbows would have free domain of the battle field

[stonewalljackman]

I enjoy defending sieges best, and citadels and fortresses, and I usually am England. First I let them use their catapults and bombards and what not to just destroy my outer wall, and I put all my men on the inner wall. Well all my archers, I try to keep about ten to twelve units of them, and depending on the area, if the gate is near an outer wall, I'll position many of them on the outer wall so it looks like this.
WA
WA
WA
WA
WWWWWWWWWGGWWWW
AAAA AAAA
IIIII
Just remember those archers are all on the wall, then the enemy will march into the open space with their rams and ladders and whatnot, typically I'll lose less than one percent of my men, while he will be obliterated.

[TheTrueGreek]

Hmm...are you including defensive squares? A simple defensive square of 4 units of pikes can be (quite) effective. I was experimenting with it today, and the casualties were a bit minimal, although I have yet to put this classic tactic to a huge stress test.

A combined arms force of Pikemen (of course, the most common and important unit here), Missiles (usuallly Pavise Crossbowmen or gunners), and high-trajectory siege equipment can be quite effective. And also 3-4 units of (missile) cavalry for support or anti-missile/ cav attack.

Heres how it would usually go:

M M M M M
M P P P P M
M P A A P M
M P A A P M
M P P P P M
M M M M M


C C C

M-Missile
P-Pikemen
A-Artillery (also it would be good if one adds in a Caroccio Standard/Great Cross)
C-(Missile) Cavalry

Heres two screenshots...but I forgot to take some in action...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

when you tested yours, was the computer involved?
and where you with the box or the attacker, my point here is that i can charge one side with all my inf, hold all yours with my cavalry



I- infantry
A-crossbow
C-cavalry
AAAAA
IIIIIIIIII
C B C
C C C C

this is a very rouch sketch, but its how you beat a box, fire all your bolts into the back units, or if the enemy has archers or art, into them, then charge your infantry into their front, keep your cavalry around the box, when your infantry inevitable breaks through, he has to turn his pikes allowing you to charge some of your cav into said units back

id like to make it known that im used to playing multiplayer and thus make my suggestions based on that which do have money restrictions so massive armies that spam units are rare and ive yet to see a box in medieval, however i am practiced at defeating the greek box and im sure some if not all of the same rules apply

[HolyRomanEmperor]

the box would work even better if u play as englang for as this may not be the game winner but it would help defensive stakes placed outside of da box could be a little more effective against that powerful cavalry charge in vanilla

[TheTrueGreek]

i wonder how many archers that would require to be effective?

if its like 10, then id ruse you with inf

[Zhangir]

C C C I I I I II I I I I I I I I I II I I I I I I I C C C

A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A A


Trust me it works )

[Elvallie]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This is one good formation for the early times of the standard campaign. Planned for defense in open field. The center of the heavy cavalry is the general. Schiltrom spears hold the enemies in the center, and you have two more units supporting them.

You should rearrange your sides formation quickly if needed, to avoid flanking. Move the cavalry, except your general, to divide the enemy. Charge isolated units if you can. Charge the back of the enemy if your front line is having trouble. Set the missile units to non skirmish, fire at will and hold possition. Infantry hold possition.

Your general should keep an eye on the enemies general, if he is a family member, as they use to charge and try to pass to where the missile units are.

Try to flank the enemy with any infantry unit that is no more engaged in combat.

[Azurius]

I probably able to utilize my most well thought out formations online, especially against another player tactician.

Open Field, centered around the Infantry unit:
If I have a numerical advantage, or superior Light Infantry I set up my military in a Strongside Formation, and then attack in an oblique order.

This is most effective if I need to make this a quick battle without having the benefit of Cavalry. Attacking in an olbique order helps out tremendously as it gives you control over how you want to draw the battle line, and with a strongside you can cause a fast infantry flank. With then will cause their line to buckle as you slowly hit it from one side, nearly surrounding them entirely. Hopefully within the thirty second engagement your Cav can old out long enough that your exposed flanks won't get hit!

Starting out, I set up a standard, single row infantry line. I place my superior Light Infantry on the left, with Spear supporting the rear. Center supported by another Spear. I place my Heavy Infantry to the right to bolster the Strongside. Supported by a standard Light Infantry, usually the most mobile one I have. Then supported by another Spear. Archers ahead of my left flank. To my outstanding flanks, I place my Heavy Cavalry supported by Light Cavalry to engage the enemy Cavalry. To the outstanding rear is my General. (Used to rally the Infantry).


When the enemy mobilizes, the first thing they'll notice is my weak Left Flank. They'll do one of two things, try to match my right flank or press my left flank. Immediately, I send my cavalry out to engage and lock theirs down (Especially if they have better Heavy Cavalry than me). I then begin motioning my Infantry ahead of the Archers to the pending battle line.


While both our Cavalries are locked in a fight to the death, I forced my enemy to deal with me one on one. This is where attacking in an oblisque order pays off. You begin to tilt the battle towards your right flank with your left. (Referring to the diaghram below)
1. I charge my left Light Infantry first towards his mid-right units.
2. As soon as they engage I follow up with my Heavy Infantry, again slanting towards his left flank
3/4. I bring up my supporting spear to reinforce my Light Infantry and plug any holes
Now the battle line is slanted toward my right flank allowing me to push hard against his infantry with the Strongside.


My Archers continue to pepper down his right flank and help take the steam off my Light Infantry. The Light Infantry will only hold out for so long, if I need to send my Archer to reinforce them, that choice is always there. As soon as our lines engage, I sweep around the fighting with my Heavy Infantry and Light Infantry (BLUE ARROW). Slowly overwhelming his flank. I Then bring up the Spear Unit in green to further wrap around his Infantry if needs be. Now, his left flank will begin to route as they are slowly becoming surrounded. With another push from my Strongside, I can begin to buckle up his Infantry line and either surround him or watch him run. I Can then use the General to go after his General, flank, support my Infantry or Cavalry.

[sinekk]

Open Field: Now i am playing with The Seljuks Sultanate...II never go a battle without Horse Archers..

1-Horse Archers, Sipahis or Turkomans at least x6

2-Only Spearmen(Saracen Milita, Dismounted Sipahi Lancers or Spearmen) x8

3-Heavy Cavalyr, Qapıkulu x4

Deployment:

A-Archers

I-Infantry

C-Cavalry

AAA SSSSSSSSS AAA
QQ QQ
General

Very simple..All infantries wait as guard mode. Archers surrounds the enemy from their back. When they run out of arrows, hit the enemy from back, kill the enemy general.5 minutes later,battle ends with 1000 prisoner.

[RaZor HeaD]

For an open field battle simply use the following formation/sequence that was used ad-nauseum for over one thousand years during the Medieval period...

------------------Enemy --------------------

------------------Archers-------------------
Hvy Cavalry-------Infantry------Hvy Cavalry
-------------Infantry Reserves--------------

--------------Cavalry Reserves---------------

The battle sequence is as follows...
1-Infantry advances toward the enemy with Archers out front 'Screening' them from counter attack.
2-Infantry engages the enemy and 'Fixes' them (prevents them from moving). *This is the KEY to the whole sequence.
3-Once the enemy line is fixed, your Hvy Cavalry 'Charges Home' (attacks the weakest point in the enemy line) and wins the field.
Note A-Infantry Reserves are used to plug any holes in your main Infantry line during the fixing stage and to counter any flanking attempts.
Note B-Cavalry Reserves are primarily used to 'Exploit' an enemy collapse by chasing down routing enemy units after the sucess of the initial Hvy Cavary charges. However, they can also be used to reinforce the initial Hvy Cavalry charges or can simply be held out of the battle and saved to counter any unforseen turn of events.

Notice that the idea is to remove your opponents ability to move while retaining YOUR ability to move and then using this advantage not to overwhelm them but to out-maneuver them.
Here are two suggestions to achieving this result...

1-'Fixing' the ENTIRE enemy line.
Use your Infantry to fix your enemies infantry AND Cavalry (yes, this can be difficult). Alternately you could use cavalry to fix his cavalry but you MUST NOT USE your Heavy Cavalry to do this because it has to be saved for the 'Decisive' strike.
2-Deciding Where/When to target your 'Charge Home'.
By far, the most powerful skill a commander can posess is the ability to correctly decide WHERE the weak point is in an enemy line and WHEN to strike there. If you can do this well you have my admiration because very few can (including me).

'Heavy Cavalry IS God' (untill the advent of artillery) and for a millenium literally NEVER lost a battle and this fact is precisely mirrored in Total War. Of course there are variations and exceptions to the formation/sequence above but this is the basic formula that transformed barbaric western war-lords into the mighty nations that run the world today.