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Thread: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

  1. #121

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Von Döbeln View Post
    Naa,A bit of heavy cavarly at the flanks and some supporting infantry in the center would do the job
    The Cavalry at the flanks can counter heavy cavalry with horse archers and other heavy cavalry. 2 heavy cavalry and one horse archer unit on each flank is usually enough to counter enemy cavalry and due to the fact they are cavalry they can rush to a flank that may be overwhelmed by too much enemy cavalry. the inner flanks are protected by spearmen to counter cavalry. the center is strong considering its made of heavy infantry swordsmen and vanguarian guards, archers and supported by artillery. the only way to destroy the center would be either by full force or by the flanks. however since the flanks are defended by the spearmen and cavalry, thats unlikely. of course doing an attack from the rear is possible but remember that there are 6 cavalry units, so its unlikely an enemy can outmanuver you with cavalry. a cavalry army would have little support infantry and relies on force, infantry depends on combined units. Cavalry armies are weak in taking positions so my formation is able to take on cavalry armies due to its flexible flanks and strong center, while an infantry army is less mobile and would spend time destroying the center but is outmanuvered by my cavalry after they pick off the enemy cavalry. so either way i see it, my formation is on paper perfect as long as a commander knows what to do. i challenge anybody to find a flaw in it.
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  2. #122
    Insurgent's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    1. open field battle
    2. defending seige
    3. taking a city (offense)
    4. taking a castle (offense)

    1. Defensive tactics. The ultimate factions for doing this are Wales and England. Place a long line of powerful longbowmen and raise sharpened stakes. Place heavy spearmen, pikemen or heavy infantry just behind and between the stakes to hold the line. Disable skirmish mode on the archers so they don't break from the line. Meanwhile place cavalry on the sides to outflank the enemies that are engaged with your infantry wall and hit them hard from behind. This will result in heavy losses from the enemy thanks to your longbows and cavalry, and minimal losses from your men thanks to the hardy protective spearwall and decisive flanking techniques. Your heavy line and stakes will deal with the cavalry and your archers and cavalry will destroy their infantry. If the enemy has horse archers, destroy them with your ranged troops, or otherwise try and catch them with hardy light cavalry. Shock infantry are also useful to keep on the sides to smite any cavalry that outflank your army. Remember to keep the general's bodyguard safe behind your force- only use him if you really need to.

    Welsh example-

    M- Morgannwg heavy spearmen
    S- Saethwyr (strong longbowmen)
    R- Rhyfelwyr (heavy shock infantry)
    T- Teulu (heavy cavalry)
    G- General's bodyguard

    TT MMMMM TT
    RR SSSSSS RR
    G

    After the enemy charge it should look like this-
    (enemy= E)

    TT TT
    EE EE EE EE
    EE MMMMM EE
    RR SSSSSS RR
    G

    As you can see the Shock inf are dealing with flankers, the spearmen are defending the archers from the hordes of troops and the cav are charging the horde from the back in order to route them.

    2. For defending a siege heavy infantry and archers are the key. Place stakes in front of the gates and keep your heavy infantry on the ground. Place all your archers and skirmishers on the walls to rain death on the ram carriers, and keep some heavy infantry on the wall to take out any troops that attack with ladders and siege towers. Spear/pikes or heavy infantry are excellent if places in front of the gate or any breaches in the wall. Sending out small groups of cavalry to destroy catapults/cannons is also a good technique to force the foes into a ram/siege tower attack, which will allow you to waste lots of their troops before the wall is breached.

    3/4. I tend to avoid siege assaulting by starving out the enemy. This reduces their number by a lot and forces them to come out of their castle and fight, stopping you from suffering the heavy losses of a siege attack. I then use the tactics I use in an open field battle to defeat the foes. If I rout the army I end the battle immediately, because if you don't they might rout to the city center and reform, forcing you to fight them to the death reducing your troop numbers.
    Last edited by Insurgent; July 17, 2008 at 03:54 PM.

  3. #123
    Phunkracy's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    Because I specialise in fighting with cavalry, I use tactics similiar to developed in XVIth century by Poles.

    Late:
    ___________________________[EG]
    ______________________[EH][EA][EA][EH]
    ___________________[EP][EP][EP][EP][EP][EP]
    [EC][EC][ES][ES]_____[ER] [ER] [ER] [ER] [ER]_________[EC][EC][ES][ES]




    [Hus][Hus]____________________________________________[Hus][Hus]
    ___[Str]____[PG][PG][PG]__________________[PG][PG][PG]____[Str]
    ________________________[Arq]_____[Arq]
    ________________________[Hlb] [Art] [Hlb]

    ________________________[PG] [G] [PG]



    Legend:
    [EC]- Enemy Heavy Cavalry
    [ES]- Enemy Skrimishers
    [ER]- Enemy Ranged units
    [EA]- Enemy Artillery
    [EP]- Enemy Pike
    [EH]- Enemy Heavy Infatry
    [EG]- Enemy General

    [PG]- Polish Guards [or it's equivalent, any other h.c.]
    [Hus]- Polish Hussars or any other l.c.
    [Str]- Polish Streltsy/ Polish Mounted Archers or its equivalent
    [Arq]- Arquebusers
    [Art]- best avaiable artillery, often serpentines
    [Hlb]- Halberd or other heavy infatry
    [G]- General and it's bodyguards


    Tactics:
    Cavalry is for dealing with enemy's cavalry ( as it's more powerful in most situations). Hussars and skrimishers first deal with enemy's skrimishers and then perform guerilla on enemy's back and flank, attacking enemy ranged
    units and artillery. [PG] are used to wipe out [EC], and then wait for performing a final, crushing blow, but not until the whole battle can be won with single devastating charge. Weakening enemy infatry is task of Tabor- infatry and artillery in the middle of formation. [Art] and [Arq] work is to weaken [EP] and [EH], Infatry had to stop infatry frontal attack, and last before cavalry perform charge on enemy's back and flanks.

    General and his PG are supplies.

    This tactics is best against Danes, as they don't have any good h.c.
    But it's useless against Timurids and Mongols, and it's hard to fight against HRE (gothic knights are difficult to kill, so the causalties in PG
    are relatively high) and France with Spaniards. But it nearly always results in victory.
    Last edited by Phunkracy; July 29, 2008 at 06:09 AM.




  4. #124

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    Everyone's formation look pretty much the same, except for a few. I have one for defending castles/cities


    WALLWALLWALLWALLWALL GATE WALLWALLWALLWALLWALL
    Ballista_______________________________________Ballista
    ______Infantry_Infantry_Infantry_Infantry_Infantry________
    BackupInfantry_______General/Cavalry________BackupInfantry

    When enemy comes, send out the general or cavalry to destroy enemy's siege weapon and siege units, leave the ram, so they can batter down the gate and come in.

    As soon as the enemies are in, let the ballistas go wild with fire spear/arrows.

    If enemies try to attack the ballistas, send your backup infantry up.


    I think that's it...

  5. #125

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    I prefer playing as high-tech factions like Venice or Spain, so I use a lot of gunpowder units to do the most of the fighting.

    In an open battle with even odds later on in the campaign, I put my artillery (usually four sets of culverin) on a nice high point, then make a large box of Pike Militia or Tercio Pikemen around the cannons. The box is then filled up with my heavy infantry (dismounted Men at Arms or Chivalric Knights/ Sword and Bucklers) so they can support the pikemen once the enemy charges. Just in front of the pikes, I line my gunners up so they can hit the advancing enemy with a few volleys of morale-shattering shots before retreating into the wall of spears at a moment's notice. I leave my Gendermes outside of the box so that they can intercept incoming archers and do hit and run attacks on enemy artillery without having to run through my box and screwing up my formation.

    Once the battle begins, my cannons blast about 10-25% of the enemy into smithereens as they march in. Once they get too close for cannon fire, my gunners nail them with one or two volleys before they have to retreat behind the pikes. Then the enemy foolishly charges his melee fighters into the pikes. My heavy infantry rushes out to support the pikemen and if my Gendarmes or Men at Arms or Chivalric Knights are available, I send them in to charge at the enemies engaging the pikemen from the rear. The force of their charge squashes them between the lances of the cavalry and the spears. This almost always causes the enemy to rout or fight to the death (because they're surrounded). The battle is almost always won by now. The cavalry hunt down routers and I win.

  6. #126
    Phunkracy's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    Quote Originally Posted by grogenmast View Post
    I prefer playing as high-tech factions like Venice or Spain, so I use a lot of gunpowder units to do the most of the fighting.

    In an open battle with even odds later on in the campaign, I put my artillery (usually four sets of culverin) on a nice high point, then make a large box of Pike Militia or Tercio Pikemen around the cannons. The box is then filled up with my heavy infantry (dismounted Men at Arms or Chivalric Knights/ Sword and Bucklers) so they can support the pikemen once the enemy charges. Just in front of the pikes, I line my gunners up so they can hit the advancing enemy with a few volleys of morale-shattering shots before retreating into the wall of spears at a moment's notice. I leave my Gendermes outside of the box so that they can intercept incoming archers and do hit and run attacks on enemy artillery without having to run through my box and screwing up my formation.

    Once the battle begins, my cannons blast about 10-25% of the enemy into smithereens as they march in. Once they get too close for cannon fire, my gunners nail them with one or two volleys before they have to retreat behind the pikes. Then the enemy foolishly charges his melee fighters into the pikes. My heavy infantry rushes out to support the pikemen and if my Gendarmes or Men at Arms or Chivalric Knights are available, I send them in to charge at the enemies engaging the pikemen from the rear. The force of their charge squashes them between the lances of the cavalry and the spears. This almost always causes the enemy to rout or fight to the death (because they're surrounded). The battle is almost always won by now. The cavalry hunt down routers and I win.
    May I ask: "what if the enemy have more and better artillery, placed higher than yours?" the box is also possible trap, if the enemy have better artillery




  7. #127

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    1. open field battle-on an open field battle I adjust my army as such:

    A-Archers
    S-Spearmen
    I-Heavy Infantry
    G-General
    L-Light Calvary


    --G---AAAAAAAAA---L--
    ------SSSSSSSSS------
    ------IIIIIIIIIIIIIIII------
    ----------------------

    Simple but gets the job done with minimal casualties

    2. defending siege-archers on walls; especially on gatehouses; depends if im being attacked by many armies, then I set up according to where the armies are attacking from (given I have enough troops). Spearmen or pikemen behind the gates or on the side of the gates. If I have cannons, I set em up just a ways down from the gates, so when enemies come in, my spearmen charge from the sides and hold them, the cannons fire taking out A LOT of enemies, usually two rounds of these will cause entire army to rout.

    3. taking a city (offense)-when taking a city i usually put siege towers and ladders just beyond the enemy walls (as close as possible) unless they have ballista or cannon towers; if they do, i set up cannons or any artillery to take out the towers first and then charge (prompts the question, y use siege weaponry then, well just cuz it gets ur units into the city or castle quicker and deals a sure amount of damage to the enemy). Usually set up infantry and cavalry in column formation since it gets them in quicker and "cleaner".

    4. taking a castle (offense)-read above
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  8. #128

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    what i like to do when i go into open battles is hav a longer line of infantry then the enemy even if its just one on unit longer. i try to hav my reserve units (generally only three but sometimes more) spread evenly throughout the line ready to charge whenever it looks like the line will break (which generally always almost happens on my weaker flank) by having a longer line then the enemy when they engage with me they will automatically be outflanked and you will hav a two on one battle the enenmy unit will almost always rout in that situation though it may take a few minutes. then those units would turn on the next unit in the line which will turn into a 3 on 1 battle that unit will rout almost imdieately then you keep doing this down the line eventually you will get to a point where you hav completely surrounded the remaining units of the enemy army. also in then strategy if i can i like to move my cavalry (almost always 2 units) around the flanks and a little towards the rear so you can both cut down the enemy while they attempt to escape (very important in the campaign) and launch an attack on any unit which is coming late to the battle also if the battle looks like its starting to go the other way i can launch them into the rear of the enemy further dooming those units. if the enemy has formible calvery units i first attack them in a seperate battle with my calvery and sometimes ill even commit my general to these battles if neccesary in any case i hav calvery on at least one flank even if it is severerly weakened while weakening the enemy calvery so that they are virtually useless. another variation of this strategy is essentially the same thing except you make a break through the center of the enemy line this allows you to surround and kill more of the enemy units though sometimes its impossible to use or requires risking your general for it.

  9. #129

    Icon7 Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    My favorites are open field and defending siege i think ill do open battle. I am not too good of an attacker i like to wait for the enemy to come to me. I normally play as holy roman empire so I take about 4 units of landschenett pikemen genral 3 crossbows and 4 to 5 either imperial gothic or teutonic knights. ( i love heavy cavalry)

    L pikes
    C crossbows
    G general
    k Knights
    I form a square out of the pikes to make sure of no flanking and i put the crossbows inside I then hide my calvary and the general in some terrain or far off to the side to flank the men charging the square. it looks like this

    ------------------enemy---enemy--enemy-------------------heavy cav
    ------------------lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll--------------------general
    ------------------l---crossbows---------l-en----------------heveay cav
    ------------------l----crossbows--------l-em--------------heavy cav
    ------------------l----crossbows--------l-y
    ------------------llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll


    its very effective executed correctly u probably would want to cut down on the cavalry and buy some infantry and palce them at the corners of the squares because those are the weakest points without some back up spears heavy cav in wedge could get through but its very unlikely and u will also have your cavalry for aid as well


    (There is no problem that cannot be solved with cannons)

  10. #130

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    about armies with artillery, couldn't an enemy like well armored light cavalry swope around and attack your cannons? and isn't archers better than gunners in range. gunner may have better armor penetration but that doesn't help if you have lancers charging at them. And isn't using gunners sacrificing a bit on your manuverbility and flexibility.
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    TOTAL WAR


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  11. #131

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    anyway with pikemen and crossbowmen, you will be restricted in movement. western factions may not have fast enough units that are strong enough to break you formations, but eastern do. of course they don't have the heavy units to destroy your pikemen and infantry and cavalry except for maybe the byzantines. the way i see it, the byzantines are the best for that kind of army. your army would be restricted to moving slowly or not at all. Byzantine Cavalry archers would pick off the pikemen and also play around with your heavy cavalry. Then the byzantine heavy cavalry would destroy your cavalry. then the byzantine infantry rips your pikemen into shreds as no pikemen or spearmen do well against heavy infantry. at the same time, your crossbowmen would be able to do much and when an opening comes the byzantine heavy cavalry or even just the "byzantine cavalry" charge down your crossbowmen. Your formation is inflexible and therefore unable to respond to more mobile units. knights may be strong in charging and all but not that strong in holding a postition or supporting troops. your formation is like a phalanx of sorts. pikemen i find are should only be used on a very narrow one front or against cavalry, never in open terrain. otherwise it'll be like the romans got you.
    Last edited by emperornovaroma; August 07, 2008 at 05:01 PM.
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    TOTAL WAR


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  12. #132

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    anyway i think most armies that consist of pikemen, heavy cavalry, missile units and maybe artillery would be usually defeated by good byzantine player using these units:

    some units may be replaced if needed, but they would be sufficent to destroy most of those armies.

    Unit Selection From: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...=171236&page=4
    Anyway i feel that these units are the most flexible in battle and probably win against any opponent. Except for ridiculous all heavy cavalry armies or all horse archer armies which i would have to replace the spearmen, vangurians and ballistia with byzantine cavalry. Imagine that 10 units of byzantine cavalry, can you still say "We'll fight in the shade." Yes the shade of death. No army could probably keep up with that mobility.
    Last edited by emperornovaroma; August 07, 2008 at 05:13 PM.
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  13. #133

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    this is assuming you know what he has, where his cav, if he has height, and most of all if your cav can beat his, but personally, id just go with a milanese army compsing of mainly 6 crossbows, 6 men at arms, 8 dismounted men at arms. its very simple to win with this so long as you can manage morale well, shoot at him, charge him and force his cavalry to come out, then charge with some of your own and maybe a few inf, pull back the infantry charging his mainline and watch his cav die, he cant do anything about it as he is pinned by my inf and crossbows after words, shoot until you cant shoot anymore and charge or if he charges, he loses all bonuses of being in a box and you can do a charge in his rear with you cav

    also, when firing on a box, always pick the unit in the back of the box, this enables you to hit it with you cav with little kills and a quick rout, which, combined with your inf charging the front, can cause and instant army rout
    Last edited by TheTrueGreek; August 07, 2008 at 05:33 PM.
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  14. #134

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    Quote Originally Posted by emperornovaroma View Post
    anyway with pikemen and crossbowmen, you will be restricted in movement. western factions may not have fast enough units that are strong enough to break you formations, but eastern do. of course they don't have the heavy units to destroy your pikemen and infantry and cavalry except for maybe the byzantines. the way i see it, the byzantines are the best for that kind of army. your army would be restricted to moving slowly or not at all. Byzantine Cavalry archers would pick off the pikemen and also play around with your heavy cavalry. Then the byzantine heavy cavalry would destroy your cavalry. then the byzantine infantry rips your pikemen into shreds as no pikemen or spearmen do well against heavy infantry. at the same time, your crossbowmen would be able to do much and when an opening comes the byzantine heavy cavalry or even just the "byzantine cavalry" charge down your crossbowmen. Your formation is inflexible and therefore unable to respond to more mobile units. knights may be strong in charging and all but not that strong in holding a postition or supporting troops. your formation is like a phalanx of sorts. pikemen i find are should only be used on a very narrow one front or against cavalry, never in open terrain. otherwise it'll be like the romans got you.

    yes but like i said im playing with HRE which means i can switch some heavy cav with reiters or I can change armies to france and have outstanding french calvalry archers to help repel yours but still i see ur point

  15. #135

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrueGreek View Post
    this is assuming you know what he has, where his cav, if he has height, and most of all if your cav can beat his, but personally, id just go with a milanese army compsing of mainly 6 crossbows, 6 men at arms, 8 dismounted men at arms. its very simple to win with this so long as you can manage morale well, shoot at him, charge him and force his cavalry to come out, then charge with some of your own and maybe a few inf, pull back the infantry charging his mainline and watch his cav die, he cant do anything about it as he is pinned by my inf and crossbows after words, shoot until you cant shoot anymore and charge or if he charges, he loses all bonuses of being in a box and you can do a charge in his rear with you cav

    also, when firing on a box, always pick the unit in the back of the box, this enables you to hit it with you cav with little kills and a quick rout, which, combined with your inf charging the front, can cause and instant army rout
    Couldn't your army be defeated by a combined army of horse archers, light cavalry, heavy cavalry, and heavy infantry. Horse archers to pick off the heavy infantry and maybe distract the heavy cavalry light cavalry to attack the archers, heavy cavalry to charge the heavy infantry which is followed by the enemy heavy infantry that exploits the hole made by the heavy cavalry. Your heavy cavalry at this time would be forced to assist your center, but is attacked by the horse archers and maybe light cavalry. This may or may not hold them off, but once your heavy infantry is taken care off then your heavy cavalry isn't much to deal with. Any problems with what i'm saying?
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  16. #136

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    Quote Originally Posted by HolyRomanEmperor View Post
    yes but like i said im playing with HRE which means i can switch some heavy cav with reiters or I can change armies to france and have outstanding french calvalry archers to help repel yours but still i see ur point
    If you did use the missile cavalry, what would be replaced for it? pikes, crossbowmen or knights.

    if pikes, but your center would be weaken. cavalry archers are good but not good at support mostly harrasement.

    if crossbowmen which is probably best, you would have no need for a box formation and therefore the purpose of pikemen is defeated and your center is easily destroyed even though you have cavalry archers. cavalry archers as said before are not support units but harrasing units.

    if knights, then if you have superior cavalry archers, your center is exposed like an open door.

    The problem without having a lot of cavalry archers is that you would have to rely on breaking the enemy before they can create a solid front. thats why using cavalry archers to counter cavalry archers that have a solid front in a form of heavy infantry and heavy cavalry is bad.

    All in all, cavalry archers don't decide too much of a battle if your enemy has a solid line of infantry and support cavalry.
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  17. #137

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    my army wasnt meant as an army for actual use, i simply came up with it based on memory and it was tailored to beat HolyRomans army, not anyone elses, if i fight someone i tend to only have 4 crossbows, and use spears in there stead and i always have a standard but as i am speaking with knowledge from multiplayer and thus used to army restrictions that typically prevent someone from even wanting to box such as money restrictions and maxxes on cav, i tend to build my armies around them
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  18. #138

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    and i made that army to originally be useful in defeating large heavy cavalry armies and armies with little shooting. in a match where it would be a balanced enemy army I would take a couple of cavalry archers 4 to 5 units of heavy infantry 2 to 3 spears and a mix between medium and light cavalry and 3 to 4 crossbows

  19. #139

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    Quote Originally Posted by emperornovaroma View Post
    anyway with pikemen and crossbowmen, you will be restricted in movement. western factions may not have fast enough units that are strong enough to break you formations, but eastern do. of course they don't have the heavy units to destroy your pikemen and infantry and cavalry except for maybe the byzantines. the way i see it, the byzantines are the best for that kind of army. your army would be restricted to moving slowly or not at all. Byzantine Cavalry archers would pick off the pikemen and also play around with your heavy cavalry. Then the byzantine heavy cavalry would destroy your cavalry. then the byzantine infantry rips your pikemen into shreds as no pikemen or spearmen do well against heavy infantry. at the same time, your crossbowmen would be able to do much and when an opening comes the byzantine heavy cavalry or even just the "byzantine cavalry" charge down your crossbowmen. Your formation is inflexible and therefore unable to respond to more mobile units. knights may be strong in charging and all but not that strong in holding a postition or supporting troops. your formation is like a phalanx of sorts. pikemen i find are should only be used on a very narrow one front or against cavalry, never in open terrain. otherwise it'll be like the romans got you.

    yes the phalanx is inflexible but my knights will most likely be able to get a charge and aid the formation it wont win for sure but it would be helpful byzantine cavalry is goo but not that good even with support from cav archers there not strong enough to take down gothic teutonic imperial or general bodyguard knight

  20. #140

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    but the ballistia would! the byzantine cavalry would be more of a barrier against the better european knights, but the byzantine tactic in my case would be to destroy the enemy infantry first. i found even use my lousy spearmen and vangurians against the knights. anyway BYZANTINE SPEARMEN SUCK! Thats why if possible i would use a pikemen mod.
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