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Thread: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

  1. #321

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    Quote Originally Posted by Nzg View Post
    Fair enough

    In early period(not counting Italian states) it would be hard to do. HRE/England seems best to do it with. I just wondered if you tried to push it with someone like Russia or Bysantium.

    The strategy looks good against infantry armies. I'll try it when playing HRE next time

    I'm going to warn you that it take a little practice though, the first few times I tried this were disasters , but with some practice you'll get it.


    About the AI lacking good units, it's the game's main problem. It the enemy brought the best units avaliable, it would be so much more fun to play. Sometimes the AI does, but there are moments when I attack with feudal Knights against town militia... Joke?
    I know, its terrible, but hey, what can you do? Even when you play Vh/VH the AI is really bad. What bother me even more than their outdated units is their inability to react, if I attack, I can just sit back and bombard them with arrows and trebuchets. They rarely rush forward, and I really hate it.

    Btw. What's the fastest long campaign you played? What was the number of tourns to complete the grand campaign and what was the faction you were playing? Any special moves used?
    Hmm, it was I long time ago but I think it was something like, 115 turns I want to say. I'm not great at Blitzing and 115 isn't that good, but I think in the beginning of the game I was very aggressive and expansive (As England), I was spread a little thin a few times, and I had some close calls, but I got lucky and my over expanding ended up being a good thing. I made myself stronger by taking the weakest factions as well as building growth building right away to allow better units earlier. I also didn't waste a single turn, I was always doing something military wise. To keep my large military supported financially I would declare wars on factions and then they would pay me a ton for peace.

  2. #322
    Biarchus
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    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    Tried your tactic a few moments ago, it was a disaster After I started ripping through I got flanked and most of my army died/routed.

    About the AI, I don't have the problem with it not rushing forward. They do attack but sometimes I get the feeling that the AI is just using the wrong tactics, not focusing on the best approach. Cavalry charges are used well but they lack infantry support.

    Hmm... With western nations I tend to play longer games. Pope get's anry more often, more choke points, enemies can sometimes siege you in 3-4 diffirent places. Russia also takes a long time since it has massive terrain to go through. England with 115 turns is quite nice I'd say.

  3. #323

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    I love my cav charging from behind

  4. #324

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    Using for late Milan armies

    1x General - G
    3x Muskets - M
    4x Xbows - X
    3x Ducale cav - HC
    7x Dis MAA or Broken Lances - HI
    2x Artilery - A
    -or-
    1x Artilery
    1x Broken Lances cav - LC


    XX-MMMM-A-MMMM-A-MMMM-XX
    HI---HC---HI--HC---HI---HC--HI
    -----HI--------HI--------HI-----
    ---------------G-------------LC

    X-bows forming thick boxes. While musketeers are spread out in a long line to make better use of thier firepower more efficienty. Misseles weakens and demoralizes enemy formations very quickly. Some of the weaker units routes before even approuaching the line. Sometimes it's important to prioritze armoured cavalary with missle units. Enemy infantry units will start dying as collateral damage. Once enemy line are somewhat close charge them down with heavy cavalary, this usally provokes routing instantly. If not, sent HC back and charge with infantry the remains of enemy army. Micromanage HC to help the infantry.

    If enemy army is just waiting there, use artilery to blast their toughest units from afar. When use musketeers to outshot their missle units.

    Broken lance cavalary is used to clean up the routing troops as they move faster than heavily armoured cavalary. But isn't necessery.


    Dealing with eastern armies is a bit more difficult and may require more cavalary and X-bows at expense of heavy infantry.

  5. #325

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    Defending siege : Putting multiple units that can form Spear walls behind the gates in long line formation and putting heavy units behind them to clash with the enemy once they










    Defending siege: Put multiple units that can form spear walls behind the gate in long lines. Heavy units stand behind them to charge at the enemy once they enter. Archers stay on the walls when the enemy is far they dont use fire when they are close they use fire when the enemy gets on the wall they stand and fight. if enemy didnt get over the wall and passed through the gates archers dont move and keep sniping. Any gun powder units or artillery stays in the plaza after the enemy enters.

  6. #326
    KhalFrodo's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    Quote Originally Posted by ... where did it run? View Post
    Using for late Milan armies

    1x General - G
    3x Muskets - M
    4x Xbows - X
    3x Ducale cav - HC
    7x Dis MAA or Broken Lances - HI
    2x Artilery - A
    -or-
    1x Artilery
    1x Broken Lances cav - LC


    XX-MMMM-A-MMMM-A-MMMM-XX
    HI---HC---HI--HC---HI---HC--HI
    -----HI--------HI--------HI-----
    ---------------G-------------LC

    X-bows forming thick boxes. While musketeers are spread out in a long line to make better use of thier firepower more efficienty. Misseles weakens and demoralizes enemy formations very quickly. Some of the weaker units routes before even approuaching the line. Sometimes it's important to prioritze armoured cavalary with missle units. Enemy infantry units will start dying as collateral damage. Once enemy line are somewhat close charge them down with heavy cavalary, this usally provokes routing instantly. If not, sent HC back and charge with infantry the remains of enemy army. Micromanage HC to help the infantry.

    If enemy army is just waiting there, use artilery to blast their toughest units from afar. When use musketeers to outshot their missle units.

    Broken lance cavalary is used to clean up the routing troops as they move faster than heavily armoured cavalary. But isn't necessery.


    Dealing with eastern armies is a bit more difficult and may require more cavalary and X-bows at expense of heavy infantry.
    This is the best strategy ever!

  7. #327

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    Well... I 've played the game for several years now and the only strategy i ever needed (open field) was backboning my army with infantry (any infantry) and then charging with heavy cavarly from behind (general and all) as long as a front is created.

    For siege i just stuff my gate with infantry from 2 sides and when the enemy comes full-power i just charge with all my cavarly, since they get circled and compressed it's realy easy to route them with much inferior forces. Ofc i man the walls for those siege towers and ladders.

    Now, this strategy is pretty simple (and rather lazy) but it has served me well through all difficulties of both rome, and medieval.

  8. #328
    Laetus
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    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    What about bridges? Easily defendable choking points where some spear militia, archers and artillery will give pause to the Mongols. Put elites there and you can ruin the horde in a few battles, with relatively low casualties.

    Especially nice as England, Poland or the Turks, cause they have stakes. Turks in Crusades unleash hell when they have mangonels.

    For my example, I'll use the Turkish unit roster, with the ideal composition of troops.

    G - General (not that important, a unit of Turkish Horse Archers will do just as well if not better)
    M - Missile (ideally composed of 4 Janissary Archers & 4 Ottoman Infantry)
    A - Artillery (3 mangonels, 1 trebuchet)
    P - Pike- /Spearmen (3 Dismounted Sipahi Lancers)
    I - (Heavy) Infantry (4 Janissary Heavy Infantry)
    S - Sharpened Stakes

    The Setup:

    Have the archers place theirs stakes in a rough U-form at the bridgehead. Your spear-/pikemen take up position behind them with the infantry forming a 2nd line as reserve should the front of spears falter.
    The Archers take up position on the flanks with the artillery in the center. Your general is at the very rear so as to not put him at risk of accidently running into (friendly) fire and have him killed.

    |______|
    |______|
    |______|
    |______|
    |______|
    |______|
    |______|
    I PS SP I
    S S
    P
    MM I I MM
    MM AAA MM
    A
    G

    Now begin the battle. Have your archers take their positions on the flanks. The enemy might be reluctant to cross the bridge at first. If so, "encourage" them by having your trebuchet fire into their ranks. Let the mangonels hold their fire yet. They may have huge range on paper, but you will want to save your ammo for when it can actually do far more damage.

    When the first of the enemy infantry set foot on the bridge, have your mangonels open fire. It takes a while for them to actually shoot, so when their barrels hit, pretty much the entire infantry is on the bridge; any barrels going to far or falling short from their determined target will either blow gaping holes into other infantry units or deliver instant horse archer BBQ, respectively.
    Just keep your archers on auto-fire, so as soon as the enemy are within range, your archers start to add their missiles to the barrage. Having one half of them use flaming arrows and the other normal arrows to reduce moral and numbers respectively has proven to be pretty effective in my experience.

    As soon as the enemy light and missile cavalry hit your stakes, they're gone. 60%-90% die there, the rest breaks and routs. If they come back, they'll get torn to shreds by your archers and one or two lucky artillery hits.

    When about half the enemy infantry & light/missile cavalry are dead or routing, they'll send in their heavy horse to "turn the tide". This is the point where you have basically won. The general will probably die in the stakes and if not, run demoralized into a spear/halberd formation. Either he flees and runs through the stakes a second time which is just as likely to kill him or he actually makes it through and runs through all what is left of his army, which, at the sight of their fleeing commander, will probably be left by all fighting spirit that may still be in them. Still the enemy general is just as likely to get killed by your infantry or the stray arrow. What little is left of the enemy army now is badly bloodied, demoralized, and leaderless; Easy prey for even a pack of militia or the like; if you have anything better there, they'll run them over as a warm up and then scream for more.

    It does not matter how many men the enemy sends at you, they will get killed on a properly prepared bridge. Just order your archers and artillery to stop firing when the field is thined out too much for them to do any big damage anymore. That way you preserve ammo for when the second or third army comes in. It's not possible to face more than three armies on a bridge, except they outmaneuverd you and attacked from both sides, but then you made a mistake somewhere else.

    One last thing though: Don't let your general charge through the stakes. Your own cavalry is just as likely to get killed by them as enemy horse are.

  9. #329
    Laetus
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    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    The Turkish-Crescent tactic has already come up in this threat. I think it's pretty similar to the tactic I've copied from AAR-author Skantarios used in his runs. Works with pretty much any eastern faction and the late French.

    An all-cavalry army may be expensive, but totally worth it, when you can run enemy armies two to four times your size in the ground and march 50% further than one with infantry. The keys to success are horse archers and Sun Tzu's doctrine "Avoid what is strong, attack what is weak."

    If I can afford it, I go into battle with 4 heavy cavalry(H) including the general(G), 4 light cavalry(L) and 10 horse archers (A).

    A shallow V form works best in my experience:

    L__L_________________________________________L L
    ______A__A_____________________________A__A
    ____________A_______________________A
    _______________A__A___________A A
    _____________________H_____H
    _______________________H_G

    Work with the terrain and weather:
    Position your troops on hills, so they have added range and an additional bonus to their charge. Avoid trees, they hinder your movement; speed and agility are the biggest boons of horse archers. Don't deprive them of these.
    Attack on bright days or clear nights. Fog weakens your men's aim, rain ruins their bow strings.

    Opening moves:
    From this, you can easily out-flank the enemy with your light cavalry, bring them into position to charge the infantry from the rear; taking out the enemy artillery with a well-timed charge of light cavalry can only be positive for your chances of success. Your horse archers should also take positions on the enemy's flanks and target the vital points of the enemy army: Missile troops, cavalry, heavily armored spear- or pikemen and - most importantly - the enemy general. As soon as he dies, the army is dead as well, they just don't know it yet.

    Exploiting artificial stupidity:
    Often, the missile troops will run ahead of the infantry line to get in range. This opens a fine opportunity for your cavalry. Charge the suckers!
    Sometimes, the enemy is stupid enough to expose the general. If this happens, charge him with heavy cavalry or atleast (!) two units of light cavalry, preferably from (his) left. If the charge hits hard enough, the general is dead the second the two units meet. Or he routs and you can send a unit of light horse after him to take him prisoner.

    Square of death:
    While you let your horse archers do their thing and the light horse make the missile troops and artillery crews level with the battleground, spred out your heavy cavalry. Especially your general can be used as 'bait'. Enemy units will often try to close with him. Use this to your advantage and maneuver the other heavy cavalry into positions from where they can charge the enemy's rear and flanks. In the rare event that this does not rout - or better yet, annihilate - the enemy, send in your general to crush into their now-rear. Not even the most elite knights will withstand this onslaught. Have one unit run them down while repositioning the others. Use a unit of light cavalry for this task if possible, so that you have all your heavy horse free for the next s.o.d.
    If you have less than four units of heavy cavalry, vary this tactic into a triangle or wall of death.

    Mopping up:
    By now, your enemy is robbed of his mobility (cavalry killed by your horse archers), distance capability (missile and artillery run down by your light horse) and leadership (general impaled by the lances of your heavy cavalry). But they might still have a lot of melee infantry. Position your melee cavalry (light or heavy has little meaning by this point) so they can flank or rear-charge the lighter troops(light infantry, spear militia, etc.), while your horse archers pepper the heavy infantry(dismounted knights, armored sergeants) with arrows to further wear down their numbers and more importantly, their morale. When the quivers of the archers are spent, send them after fleeing enemy units to free up your light cavalry. Then sorround and destroy the remaining enemy forces with continued charges into their flanks and rear.

    If done right, you can destroy wastly more numberous armies this way. Think about it: A cavalry army destroys an army of spears three times its size with minimal casualties. The only problem is for fans of the North-Western factions or the Italians. They lack the missile cavalry you need for this tactic. Mounted crossbowmen might look like a good stand in at first glance, but they took longer to reload between volleys and you can only recruit them in citadels.
    The Russians, (Kazaks, Boyar sons, Cossack Cavalry, Dvor) Poles (Strzelcy, Polish Nobles, Lithuanian Cavalry), Hungarians (Hungarian Cavalry, Hungarian Nobles), Turks (Turkish Horse Archers, Turkomans, Sipahi, iqta'dar in Crusades), Egyptians (Desert Cavalry, Mamluk Archers, Bedouin Camel Riders in Crusades), Byzantines (Skythikon, Byzantine Cavalry, Vardariotai), in Teutonic the Lithuanians (Cavalry Militia, Cuman Horse Archers and Dzukijan Horsemen) and even the Moors, Portuguese and Spaniards (No horse archers, but fast cavalry with armor piercing javelins) laugh at their feeble attempts to catch the quicker horsemen.

  10. #330

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    All cav. armies are brutal. Dont even need any formation. Key is flanking. enemy will nearly always move towards general against all.cav army since AI thinks you are weaker then you actually are. So create corridor from your missile cav through which enemy will march and route them one by one. Getting couple HA on the back of the enemy to follow their army through your corridor speeds that process. I prefer to use HA though, Janeetes and such run out of ammo way too fast. Kazaks, Dvor Cav...etc. Amazing. Can even bring couple light cav to route and chase wavering enemies.

    this is the best total war game... even comparing to Rome 2...(specially comparing to...)

  11. #331

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    I usually just like to go with a heavy cavalry army, but if they lack any fast moving units I use a leap-frog maneuver with ranged units.

  12. #332

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    Quote Originally Posted by ... where did it run? View Post
    Using for late Milan armies

    1x General - G
    3x Muskets - M
    4x Xbows - X
    3x Ducale cav - HC
    7x Dis MAA or Broken Lances - HI
    2x Artilery - A
    -or-
    1x Artilery
    1x Broken Lances cav - LC


    XX-MMMM-A-MMMM-A-MMMM-XX
    HI---HC---HI--HC---HI---HC--HI
    -----HI--------HI--------HI-----
    ---------------G-------------LC
    I like the way you stagger HI and HC. It looks almost aggressive AND defensive

  13. #333

    Default Re: Your favorite unit formations and strategies in different situations

    Quote Originally Posted by Lupakos View Post
    Well... I 've played the game for several years now and the only strategy i ever needed (open field) was backboning my army with infantry (any infantry) and then charging with heavy cavarly from behind (general and all) as long as a front is created.
    I'm pretty much the same way- use knights to hold infantry, and then use heavy cav to execute rear/flank attacks over and over again.

    At the same time though, I've only gotten to the late stage game using Western European factions, and I play to make sure that I always have numerical superiority and a huge gold stash. Not sure how it would work as a Muslim/Eastern faction, or in asymmetrical warfare.

    Recently, I've been trying to figure out better tactics so I can do faster playthroughs, because building up huge armies and finances at the same time can be pretty time consuming.

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