Does unit size affect AI performance?

[Irishmafia2020]

I have tended to play DEI with large unit sizes over the years, as ultra created too much lag in siege battles and led to significant performance drops. Recently I bought a new PC that is far more powerful and able to handle this game/mod. I can easily play on "ultra" unit size settings, and so I do... However, I came across a thread in another forum that suggested that several users were having a much better experience with the opposing AI if they used "large unit sizes". Those users reported that the battle AI was nimbler, and able to pull off tactical surprises than if the settings were set to "ultra" unit sizes. I have also read that a lot of the inherent vanilla balancing was done around "large" sizes.

Does the unit size matter between Ultra and Large? I realize that the smaller unit sizes are unbalanced, but does the BAI perform noticeably better with "large" unit sizes? I got used to using that unit setting, so I could go back to it, but the ultra size units are just so epic.

[KAM 2150]

Depends on how the game is made but I remember that for example in Company of Heroes, if my buddy with much worse PC would host the game, AI would be much worse (for example never try to fix bridge in the north of the map).

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

AFAIK Ultra is the ideal battle setting and KAM designed our battle system around it. BUT I'm also aware of the threads you wrote about and the issues the AI has with ULTRA, such as path finding,performance issues etc so it's really up to you.
Just test both and ding your preference.

[priam54]

That's actually an interesting topic. I never thought trying large unit sizes instead of ultra...

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

That's actually an interesting topic. I never thought trying large unit sizes instead of ultra...

I know some people who prefer even medium unit sizes. Usually with weaker machines, but AFAIK they're enjoying the mod no less.

[Dresden]

I actually remember reading something awhile ago where someone felt the AI performed better with smaller unit sizes. I could be wrong, though, and it was just one person so who knows

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

I actually remember reading something awhile ago where someone felt the AI performed better with smaller unit sizes. I could be wrong, though, and it was just one person so who knows

Ι have seen something similar. It's mostly due to path-finding I guess.

[Dago Red]

I have always played TW games on large unit size. There is, to date as far as I know, no TW game (nor mod) that has battle maps which are conducive for unit sizes beyond large. Even TA:TW where the devs created their own cities completely from scratch, unit sizes bigger than large do not perform well, though that's probably more because they stuck with the conventions of roads, walls, battlements, and other interior spaces which are just not big enough for 300-man units.

In pitched* battles, I suspect the effect is minor especially in Rome2 which went backwards several generations and has nothing but terrain on the map (unless you're near a wonder), but there is a serious difference in any non-field engagement. This is all more about tangible pathfinding, than core AI though.

*edit: I forgot about river crossings. So even in some pitched battles unit sizes are an issue. For example, any unit bigger than 150 men or so seems to get messed up on bridges.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

I have always played TW games on large unit size. There is, to date as far as I know, no TW game (nor mod) that has battle maps which are conducive for unit sizes beyond large. Even TA:TW where the devs created their own cities completely from scratch, unit sizes bigger than large do not perform well, though that's probably more because they stuck with the conventions of roads, walls, battlements, and other interior spaces which are just not big enough for 300-man units.

In pitched* battles, I suspect the effect is minor especially in Rome2 which went backwards several generations and has nothing but terrain on the map (unless you're near a wonder), but there is a serious difference in any non-field engagement. This is all more about tangible pathfinding, than core AI though.

*edit: I forgot about river crossings. So even in some pitched battles unit sizes are an issue. For example, any unit bigger than 150 men or so seems to get messed up on bridges.

I always played Medieval 1 XL mod with Ultra unit sizes. I still play it...God I love my pixels.

[Dago Red]

Playing on large, I miss out on the historically accurate phalangite formations of 256 men in a 16 x 16 block, so sometimes I start Greek campaigns with the size bumped up. I noticed Kam changed the deployment so that many pike units deploy in this block now so I might actually give it a try more often going forward.

How much hair do you pull out in sieges and city battles though, when units are getting hung up on every column and bathhouse?

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

Playing on large, I miss out on the historically accurate phalangite formations of 256 men in a 16 x 16 block, so sometimes I start Greek campaigns with the size bumped up. I noticed Kam changed the deployment so that many pike units deploy in this block now so I might actually give it a try more often going forward.

How much hair do you pull out in sieges and city battles though, when units are getting hung up on every column and bathhouse?

I even pull out my beard's hair.
I believe KAM changed a few things for Large size pike units indeed.