best english army to have?

[Guderian]

IMO that looks like a pretty narrow and deep army deployment, vulnerable to artillery, which always misses either long or short. Aiming for the center of your formation would result in casualties practically every shot. Esp from catapult and trebuchet, who have longer ranges than RLB.

Yep a very valid observation MM, thats why I have the knights, i usually charge enemy arty, so as to disrupt it, then pull out. If the AI continues to use it's arty, I again charge it then pull out before they can engage my cav with their spearmen or their own cav. Usually this all happens way before my army gets within range of the enemy arty.

I always deploy my longbows in the front, have them deploy stakes. Then, when the battle starts I immediately pull them back behind the first line of spears, who move forward to where the longbows were.

It depends on whether I am attacking or defending. If defending I deploy the stakes and let them engage enemy ranged units until the enemy melee units get in range, then I pull them back. If attacking same thing but I don't deploy the stakes.

What do you do with your RLB when they are threatened by advancing infantry or pavise crossbows?

If they are threatened by crossbows I let them engage in a ranged battle while I use my light cavalry to charge the crossbowmen while they are engaging my longbowmen. If threatened by melee infantry I pull them back to the back of the formation.

How do you defend against heavy knights that charge your swordsmen and not your spearmen in your front ranks?

With the AI i find that the cav always charge without the support of their inf. But if they do charge the swordsmen, my swordsmen take hvy losses, which cannot be helped, but I then counter charge the cavalry with the frontline spearmen then use one of my reinforcement units to fill the gap left by the spearmen, either that or I just use my reinforcement unit of spearmen or sometimes even my general to help the swordsmen.

It seems you would have to do a lot of maneuvering, especially if you were attacking, and against a good opponent, breaking up your unit cohesion wouldn't be good. Even archers pulling back through your front lines would momentarily break the cohesion of those troops.

Yep you are right on the mark, you have to be able to anticipate what the enemy is going to do. But if you can, most of the time unless very heavily outnumbered you have a very high chance of winning.

[Town Watch]

4 trebs

1 general

1-2 knights

1-2 light cavalry

6 arquebusiers

6 solid line infantry units (pikes, halberds, spears, poleaxe?, they need to be tough defensively)

nice defensive late period army, preferably against infantry heavy armies. Rotting cow + gunpowder equals lots of routing enemies. Although it will have rough time against cannon towers with only trebs...



General and other cavalry try to flank and chase down the demoralised enemies, infantry protects shooters and defends. 6 arquebus might be only 4, to allow a bigger battleline to protect trebs and shooters. 4 trebs is also sometimes an overkill, you can add cavalry or assault infantry.

I like that army.

[MrMerisi]

True enough, but I don't think your rep would decrease by exterminating "infidels."

I know we're off topic but I beg to differ with you here. Most leaders at the time would have known the difference between keeping up relations with the Church, defeating enemy armies in battle and slaughtering civilians. A truly pious Christian or Muslim seeks to convert "infidels," not destroy them. An infidel army is one issue: they're out to destroy you and probably are beyond redemption. Slaughtering civlians is another matter entirely.

In Roman times, Rome was master of most of the known world, so putting down a revolt or quelling an enemy by exterminating cities (Carthage) was something they did and got away with, partly because they had nobody to answer to, and partly because they were desensitised to bloodshed in their pagan culture. Not until the spread of Christianity as the official religion of the Roman empire did they start seeing matters differently, i.e. that massacres were un-Christian. Ironically they were put out of business by barbarians who enjoyed slaughter as much as the Romans themselves used to. Most Muslim leaders of the medieval period, on the other hand, realised that such a policy would surely backfire. Exterminating a Christian city would probably be enough to make the European powers put their quarrels aside and come after you seriously.

In medieval times AFAIK there are very few cases of innocents being put to the sword en masse as a solution to unrest, by Christians against Muslims or vice versa (only a few sporadic slaughters in the Crusader kingdoms come to mind). In fact, most massacres of civilians that come to mind happened on European soil, many of these occuring as a result of the increased use of mercenaries in the late period.

In the game, only truly barbaric rulers with massive dread and huge cruelty traits (like Edward I) would applaud extermination as a policy. Most others would quietly downgrade their opinion of you, while pious kings would object vehemently. If you were strong, they'd see what was to come; if you were weak, they'd want to nip you in the bud.

[elfdude]

I tend to make armies with maybe 4 groups of heavy calvery 4 groups of infantry and then the rest sherwood archers/longbowmen and a general or two. Sherwood archers decimate any army I've come across yet. And if the enemy is stupid enough to charge into my heavy infantry who are more cannon than major players in the battles a few heavy calvery charges fixes that. I find that the sherwood archers right behind the heavy infantry decimate heavy calvary charges as well.

You guys should really try using historic english army make ups because they work painfully well. I think the biggest problem is running out of arrows but with a near 1 arrow to 1 kill ratio that the sherwood archers have (initially shooting into a tight formation anyways) that doesn't really matter. The same army works for taking settlements as the heavy infantry take walls easily and then putting the archers on them after makes it like shooting fish in a barrel.

[Trajan]

My personal favorite English army so far consists of:

- 1 General
- 5 Armored Swordsmen
- 5 Dismounted English Knights
- 4 Retinue Long bowmen
- 2 ballistas or trebuchets
- 3 Knights Hospitaller or English Knights

[shazam]

THIs is war and therefore i bring cookie tactics ( minamal loss )
( these will be inportent for the full tatic )
General + 4 mounted units ( 2 ways )
2 cow slingers

rest of the army is just to say the size as it grows
and the rest of the amry will be swordsmen and any type of longbowmen in the radio 1 : 1 * when battle starts have the swordmen BE in BEWEEN the stakes ) there are portected from calvery and they will protect the achers 8 make sure to turn of sckermish for achers

next for the inportent units ( try to have a dread general for this ) these guys will win the game
2 ways light calvery >< heavey calvery

cow slinger shoot there general with cows

light clavery
the 4 mounted if they are light calvery have them charge the infentry from behinde or side when they start fight ur swordsmen this will case the enimey units to atomaicly RUn Away

heavy clalvery
if the 4 are heavey calvery have them charge the general of there army this will kill him or make him Run away do to the cows

after this have them chagre enmy making them RUn if they didt run yet
and the battle is urs with less then 10 % loss and u will kill them prisoners or ransom them

[Long John Silver]

Army 1:

1 General
6 Demi-Lancers
4 Hobilars
The rest are Feudal-, Armored-, etc. Knights (mounted)

Army 2:

1 General
16 of the best Longbowmen (don't know the name of them in english. In german they are called Gefolge-Langbogenschützen)
1 Demi-Lancers
2 Hobilars

[mutuletom3]

I'm right in the middle of a campaign with the English, so please indulge me on posting a longer reply...

@OP

If money is no object, that's a fairly solid army, although you've left out English Knights (or Feudal Knights if you don't have the tech yet). You always need heavy knights, esp in Western Europe, and I'd never risk young generals in combat unless they had awful traits or were inept businessmen.

I'd add in Billmen or Bill Militia for flanking and assaulting enemy infantry, and I almost always deploy a unit of Peasants to soak up enemy missile fire and to screen my movements. Early game I recruit Galloglaich and Irish Kerns to supplement the lack of English skrmishers and fast assault troops.

But your choice depends on whether you're talking Early, High or Late period. Considering English Knights (mounted and dismounted) only come in a little later on, it's logical that the best English armies will have those units. However, any army with 3-4 Longbowmen+ (Yeomen, Retinue LB, Sherwood) with stakes deployed even when attacking, some Armoured Swordsmen and a couple of heavy knights should be fairly strong. You just have to be careful as Armoured Swordsmen can be crushed by enemy heavy cav at full charge and obviously the English don't get great defensive spearmen (although in the Tutorial campaign you have Norman Seargants under your banner that then mysteriously disappear as a recruiting choice).

To gain an advantage over local enemies, after the 1st Crusade I bring my Turcopoles back to Europe. It takes a while from them to get there by ship, but having Longbowmen and exotic horse archers is a very nice combination against the French and HRE. If you're fighting either of the Iberian powers, beware of their Jinetes, as they get them early, and use your Turcopoles wisely, as you can't recruit replacements. Also bring back Unhorsed Knights along with your Turcopoles from the Holy Lands for an early Heavy Infantry unit you can use before you have Fortresses.

My Early armies look like this:

1 Unit of Peasants, either out front or on a flank where I can throw them in to confuse the enemy, draw missile fire, or screen my flanking infantry (I use Town Militia if the enemy is missile heavy as Town Militia have a shield).
1 Unit of Irish Kerns arrayed as skirmishers
1 Unit of Merc Crossbows (to target any enemy armour)
3-4 Units of Merc Spears or Spear Militia (cheap cavalry stopper)
2 Units of Billmen, one on each flank, behind the spearmen
1-2 Units of Galloglaich
3-4 Units of Longbowmen (I tech up at Caen to get them ASAP)
2 Units of Mailed Knights
1 Hobilars
1 General

Obviously I rely somewhat heavily on Mercs early on, but I prefer to tech up my missile and my Economics buildings rather than try to tech up across the board. I don't deploy artillery early on as Ballistas are expensive to maintain and not nearly as effective as Longbows in terms of kills per florin.

If I'm attacking, I generally weaken a spot in the enemy lines with concentrated missile fire, using my Peasants to force his Archers back and/or draw out his Cavalry, which then get cut down by Xbows and LBmen. I then do a frontal charge with the Galloglaich and punch through the weak spot and/or I flank with the Billmen, sending my cavalry to the rear to harass his redeploying missile troops, artillery and then plow into the back of his infantry front. Rarely do I Cav charge his Archers as they hardly ever get within striking range, and my Cavalry almost always go to the flanks.

I play with the Winning Combo mod which includes Darth Formations etc, which will change how you array your forces. The Early period is the challenging one for me, as once Armoured Swords and English Knights come along, and you're wealthy, it's fairly obvious what to deploy and where.

All things considered, the bottom line is that Longbowmen are "war winning troops", to quote from the original MTW. Using them wisely almost guarantees victory.

well for me i like england it has a great place to be you take the two reble setllments and make them your place for army and then take the other three france citys and keep sending english men for the first three then kepp send some help when paris and rhenes are under attack and then you can keep sending your real army to attack other citys while attacing scotland with your york and london citys after you other army has started attaking france but first make peace and dont let them attack first when france and scotland is gone stat on milan and spain when there gone it is easy but make peace with the holy romen empire until milan is dead then use the old france and milan citys to beat hre but destroy denmark or the will take over some citys as well after milan has died and you have stated a war on hre take sicely over and papal states to get a better hold over old rome after that russia will attack you when you beat holy romen empire so take them and hungary and the rest is up to you it would be so easy and most of all for me peasents are great they are used to hard work and often win me a lot of battles so make sure you use them and longbowmen and cavelry and a family member but only the best ones and it does not matter to me about the pope he does not last longer than a day after the third for me so i often dont bother the factions hate each other anyway so after hungary and denmark and spain and milan and scotland and sicily and papal states and france is gone you will own almost all the areas of and after spain kill the moors to keep you busy or else it will be boring so i hope people think im right because i am my plan is great

[mutuletom3]

I know we're off topic but I beg to differ with you here. Most leaders at the time would have known the difference between keeping up relations with the Church, defeating enemy armies in battle and slaughtering civilians. A truly pious Christian or Muslim seeks to convert "infidels," not destroy them. An infidel army is one issue: they're out to destroy you and probably are beyond redemption. Slaughtering civlians is another matter entirely.

In Roman times, Rome was master of most of the known world, so putting down a revolt or quelling an enemy by exterminating cities (Carthage) was something they did and got away with, partly because they had nobody to answer to, and partly because they were desensitised to bloodshed in their pagan culture. Not until the spread of Christianity as the official religion of the Roman empire did they start seeing matters differently, i.e. that massacres were un-Christian. Ironically they were put out of business by barbarians who enjoyed slaughter as much as the Romans themselves used to. Most Muslim leaders of the medieval period, on the other hand, realised that such a policy would surely backfire. Exterminating a Christian city would probably be enough to make the European powers put their quarrels aside and come after you seriously.

In medieval times AFAIK there are very few cases of innocents being put to the sword en masse as a solution to unrest, by Christians against Muslims or vice versa (only a few sporadic slaughters in the Crusader kingdoms come to mind). In fact, most massacres of civilians that come to mind happened on European soil, many of these occuring as a result of the increased use of mercenaries in the late period.

In the game, only truly barbaric rulers with massive dread and huge cruelty traits (like Edward I) would applaud extermination as a policy. Most others would quietly downgrade their opinion of you, while pious kings would object vehemently. If you were strong, they'd see what was to come; if you were weak, they'd want to nip you in the bud.

a wise ruler does not seek out war but is always prepared for it if that helps you think of making peace and not war ( unless you need to of course )

[mutuletom3]

Yep a very valid observation MM, thats why I have the knights, i usually charge enemy arty, so as to disrupt it, then pull out. If the AI continues to use it's arty, I again charge it then pull out before they can engage my cav with their spearmen or their own cav. Usually this all happens way before my army gets within range of the enemy arty.



It depends on whether I am attacking or defending. If defending I deploy the stakes and let them engage enemy ranged units until the enemy melee units get in range, then I pull them back. If attacking same thing but I don't deploy the stakes.



If they are threatened by crossbows I let them engage in a ranged battle while I use my light cavalry to charge the crossbowmen while they are engaging my longbowmen. If threatened by melee infantry I pull them back to the back of the formation.



With the AI i find that the cav always charge without the support of their inf. But if they do charge the swordsmen, my swordsmen take hvy losses, which cannot be helped, but I then counter charge the cavalry with the frontline spearmen then use one of my reinforcement units to fill the gap left by the spearmen, either that or I just use my reinforcement unit of spearmen or sometimes even my general to help the swordsmen.



Yep you are right on the mark, you have to be able to anticipate what the enemy is going to do. But if you can, most of the time unless very heavily outnumbered you have a very high chance of winning.

ok i said befor i always love my peasents so just stop useing them like there nothing they always help me win bettles and allways take enamy walls for me and help take the center of the city and then i use lonbowmen and knights and if you keep saying peasants are no good then how come i always complete the game because of them and i always make as many as i can ( even thow i only put two units in each army and 3 bowmen and rest cavelry ) and also when as england ( which is the best faction ) and also again i bring up peasents they are the 2 best unit you can get there cheat and great at attacing walls and breaking gates and good at fighting and for me they never run from a fight and im not lieing there they realy do not run i always have at least three on defence i hope you lot are now thinking of stop useing peasents like there nothing if you still use then like nothing then why not just stop useing them all together because there people to ( in a way i know there not real )

[Sar1n]

Hm, I am thinknig about what melee infantry should I use for protection of longbowmen, arty and storming cities and castles. Dismounted english knights look good as a shock troops, with huge, AP attack...but quite low defense. Armored swordsmen have highest def of english units, but they're swordsmen so they're not good at stopping cavalry. Should I just hire some mercs? Infantry isn't a problem for longbowmen, most of it is minced meat before they get to range.

[irelandeb]

Nobody uses billmen?

Billmen are great, some of the best polearm infantry in the game. They are a cross between every other factions polearm (voulge/halberd/sword-staff etc) and armoured sergeants. Well, not great defensive infantry, but certainly great offensive against tight formations.

[Gen. Chris]

Nobody uses billmen?

Billmen are great, some of the best polearm infantry in the game. They are a cross between every other factions polearm (voulge/halberd/sword-staff etc) and armoured sergeants. Well, not great defensive infantry, but certainly great offensive against tight formations.

Therein lies my problem with them. I thought they were good polearm infantry until I tried holding off cavalry with them...

[Choombi]

i rely on enemy trying to attack.
1 general
10(yes 10) retinue longbowmen
5 armored swordsman
2 dismounted english knights
2 knights hospitaller.

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
T S S S S S T G KH KH

L L L L L L L L L L

^=stakes T=d.english knights L=retinue longbowmen G=General S=armored swordsman KH=k.hostipaller

stuffed all the heavy cavlry at one side to create a strong charge force, or to get some enemies to my longbowmen range.

[shikaka]

4-6 longbow (better to have different longbows for faster retrain)
4 armored swordsmen
4 mercenary spearmen
3-4 heavy cavalry, including general

Usually works, simple to field and retrain.

[Kongming69]

I liked to rely heavily on the types of longbows the English have access to, so I employ at least 6 and sometimes up to 10 depending on the situation. 10 wreaks havok on an attacking force especially if your archers are protected by stakes, terrain, or walls.

[PrestigeX]

For the usual campaign army, England is one of the most economical.
You can have plenty of armies roaming around that have..
1 Gen.
4 Cavalry (atleast 2 of them heavy)
8 Longbows (assorted, but mostly just regular longbow and yeomen)
3 Heavy Bills
4 armored swords

[Foeke1]

My army consists out of:

1 General
3 Heavy Cavalry (Mailed Knights -> Feudal Knights -> English Knights)
5 Spearmen (Levy Spearman -> Dismounted English Knights)
5 Strong Attack Units (Billmen -> Dismounted Feudal Knights -> Armoured Swordsmen)
4 Range Units (Longbowmen -> Yeoman Archers -> Retinue Longbowmen -> Arquebusiers)
2 Artillery Units (Ballistae -> Catapult -> Trebuchet -> Culverin)

P.S. : The arrows between Units are just their upgrades, to get the strongest possible, use the last one in line.

Deployment:

Your Range Units in front (Skirmish mode off), plant stakes in front of 'em, and when the enemy gets close, retreat behind your lines, of course, this does NOT work for Arquebusiers)
Your defensive units (indicated above as spearmen) behind your archers, and will form the first line when it comes to hand to hand combat.
Your attacking units, steadily behind your defensive line, waiting to pounce, and smash both the enemy as well as their morale.
Artillery behind your lines which named above, smashing the foe from a large distance away.
Your general behind all your units, ready to make a succesfull charge when needed.
Of course, your cavarly on the flanks, but you can have 1 on each flank, and 1 in the middle, to punch through your lines, as well as your enemies (don't worry about your lines, if you make sure their morale is at least shaken, and creating a gap in your enemies, lines.
And last but not least: CHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGE!!! HUNT THEM DOWN!!!

if done like explained, your army will be home that evening drinking , feasting and

[windsupernova]

It depends on what I have available tbh.

But anyways my armies tend to be:

6 Heavy Infantry
6 Missile units
2 Anti cav units
6 Heavy cav including the general.

As far as Artillery goes when I am actually invading I try to bring along a half stack army along my invasion armies. That half stack serves to protect the artillery(that I swap in for my main army when I need to Siege) and to replenish my armies.

[Choombi]

err.....20 retinue archers, skirmish mode off, fire at will on, butcher anything in range, advance a bit for taking out artillery