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Thread: French lategame roster OP?

  1. #1

    Default French lategame roster OP?

    Consider this, they get a large supply of some of the best heavy cav in the game with their lancers/noble/chivalric knights, they can also recruit heavy cav in cities with gendarmes, they have the best archers in the game with Scot's Guard, best crossbowmen in the game with Aventieurs, some of the best cav archers in the game with French Mounted Archers, and while their infantry isn't exceptional, it's strong and reliable, with dismounted feudal knights and getting armoured sergenats early in the game, which is something the English who are supposedly strong in infantry completely lack.

    The French can recruit a strong and versatile lineup of troops from both cities and castles, and as well as having very strong traditional units, they aren't lacking in lategame gunpowered either.

    Of course you would expect French to have strong cavalry, but they definitely seems to be the master of all trades. Thoughts?

  2. #2
    paleologos's Avatar You need burrito love!!
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    Default Re: French lategame roster OP?

    I have never played a campaign as the French.
    If those troops are quick to replenish and not proportionally expensive to recruit and most of all to upkeep, then I agree that the French are receiving a significant advantage.
    In the Titanium submod of Stainless Steel we are orienting at eliminating faction specific French knights and replace them with the analogous troop type for other factions, giving the French an experience bonus until 1415.

  3. #3

    Default Re: French lategame roster OP?

    Ironically, their heavy cavalry isn't best in the game. It's been years since I played vanilla, but IIRC their cavalry suffers a lot if caught in melee because they use swords, while some other cavalry units, like gothic knights, english knights and few others use AP maces/axes, while being comparable in charge.

    But yeah, they have powerful roster, without any weakness. They have decent both long pike and halberd style units, so you can make powerful infantry barrier. They're definitely contenders for OP faction, but then....Spain or Portugal (not sure if Portugal gets dragoons in vanilla) can be even more OP if you fully embrace the pikes+dragoons combo.

  4. #4

    Default Re: French lategame roster OP?

    Well I know Chivalric Knights are stronger on the charge than English Knights, the non-AP secondary doesn't really matter a whole lot IMO since in vanilla armour ratings are low, secondary attack ratings are high, and you mostly rely on the charge with cav since vanilla H-cav is pretty fragile. Also, most mace-wielding cav only have an attack rating of 10 or so, IIRC

    Never played Spain or Portual, but Dragoons and pikes seems like it'd get torn apart by missile-heavy armies.

  5. #5
    NorseThing's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: French lategame roster OP?

    I agree with the opening post about the endgame French cavalry lineup. I would be interested in what some of the members who play face to face do with the French when they are buying their units for the one on one battle.

    As others have alluded --- the modifications do try a bit of rebalancing. I wonder if as early as Lusted's Retrofit whether this was the case?

    To give our TWC WIKI a plug there is also http://www.twcenter.net/wiki/Kingdom...d_Campaign_Mod which claims to not have done a rebalancing over a decade ago. I wonder how the French cavalry fair in that campaign as well. I used to play it a very long time ago. I may need to download the mod and play as the French!

  6. #6
    King Athelstan's Avatar The Wheel Weaves
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    Default Re: French lategame roster OP?

    I've played numerous campaigns in Med2, and I've never had a problem with an OP faction. Any battle is winnable with good enough tactics . However, while the French have a good army, their position is terrible. They're set to be invaded by England, Portugal, Spain, Milan, HRE and possible even Denmark if they take Bruges. I've found the vanilla game to be quite balanced, as all factions have units comparable to each other. Multiplayer is something else, but then people can just spam Hospitaller knights anyways.....

    Some modifications, such as Stainless Steel change the roster of all factions so much they're not really comparable to the vanilla game. Therefore, no faction is overpowered. Might have a slightly more varied roster than others, sure. But any faction can beat any faction in a one to one battle.
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  7. #7
    Emperor of The Great Unknown's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: French lategame roster OP?

    France has good units, but not nearly the best. None of their elite missile troops are cost effective. Their cav is numerous but of average quality compared to most western factions. And they don't even get dismounted chivarlic knights in campaign if I recall. If you look at Spain's Roster it shares the same strengths but none of the weaknesses. It has Gendarmes from cities, Chivalric Knights (both mounted and dismounted) from castles, and cost effective missile units (Mounted Crossbowmen, Pavise Crossbowmen, Musketeers, Jinetes). If you add Conquistadors to the mix from the Americas, you also have really fast powerful Cav and the best heavy infantry in the game.

    I will note in campaign especially for the player talk of balance is not very helpful. Especially since every faction gets the most OP unit in the game (General's Bodyguard), and the player can overcome almost every obstacle. Not to mention by the time you get access to late game units your economy is so strong cost doesn't matter much.

    When talking about auto-resolve, I do notice that some units really outperform their weight. Basically all cavalry is trash in auto-resolve. Best to go with high defense infantry, like Armoured Sergeants, Dismounted (Sword and Shield) Knights.
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  8. #8

    Default Re: French lategame roster OP?

    I thought every faction is supposed to get OP units in the lategame

  9. #9

    Default Re: French lategame roster OP?

    I've never let them hang around long enough to find out.
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