Gotta love European nationalism. Thank god it has never gone wrong in the past.
Hey, whatever makes you feel like you have power over others.Originally Posted by Basil II the B.S
From silence
Re: Out with the old: Italy's election is another blow to the EU liberal establishment
Gotta love European nationalism. Thank god it has never gone wrong in the past.
Hey, whatever makes you feel like you have power over others.
They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.
Re: Out with the old: Italy's election is another blow to the EU liberal establishment
Gotta love the extreme left lecturing anyone about past atrocieties. Indeed they hold the world record in terms of death toll.
From silence
Re: Out with the old: Italy's election is another blow to the EU liberal establishment
What? What extreme left positions have I ever supported?
They give birth astride of a grave, the light gleams an instant, then it's night once more.
Just a sausage
Re: Out with the old: Italy's election is another blow to the EU liberal establishment
every position thats left of his, oc
Patricius
Re: Out with the old: Italy's election is another blow to the EU liberal establishment
Every side of political spectrum has gone wrong in the past. Doesn't really change the fact that the biggest problem in Italy and Europe in general are neoliberal elites.
Re: Out with the old: Italy's election is another blow to the EU liberal establishment
What's left of the left is now mounting a case against ''the ignorant mob''. They have officially divorced from both the working class and the middle class. I can't wait until the European elections next year so we finish them off.
Last edited by Katsumoto; June 04, 2018 at 04:00 AM. Reason: removed insult
Ducenarius
Re: Out with the old: Italy's election is another blow to the EU liberal establishment
It's really absurd that the only ones standing up to these are right wing nationalists. I feel like crying when I think about what has become of the traditional left, hijacked by divisive identity politics.
But the saddest thing is nationalism can't be the solution for Europe. No nation state, bar China, has the weight to face the challenges of the 21 st century. The only chance would've been the United States of Europe, but this ship has sailed because politicians all have betrayed the people for decades and then blamed the fallout on the EU, which is part of the problem, but not the source.
Europe (and the USA) is facing a dark future no matter what.
Re: Out with the old: Italy's election is another blow to the EU liberal establishment
I'm so happy for Italy. They have a government that actually wants to protect its country and its people, and is not afraid to kick out immigrants who despise Europe and are only coming to destabilize and usurp in the long term.
Last edited by Abdülmecid I; June 04, 2018 at 07:15 AM. Reason: Off-topic.
Comes Limitis
Re: Out with the old: Italy's election is another blow to the EU liberal establishment
Interior Minister Matteo Salvini [1:20]:
"For illegal immigrants, the fun is over; in a serene, polite and peaceful manner, be ready to pack your bags."
Interior Minister Matteo Salvini [1:41]:
".. welcoming women and children who are escaping from war it's a sacrosanct duty, but the whole of Africa cannot be contained in Italy!"
Side note:
Please note the triumphal reception in Catania, Sicily, Southern Italy, of the Interior Minister, Secretary of a party called Northern League! Something is changing in Europe and it's happening very, very, very quickly.
The Leftists are advised, it's time to change your idiotic, demented ideas about mass immigration in Europe, because now you're going to vanish ..
Last edited by Diocle; June 06, 2018 at 09:29 AM.
member 3519
Re: Out with the old: Italy's election is another blow to the EU liberal establishment
Yes well I think you should be wary who your friends are. It seems one of the things the new Italian government is banking on to alleviate the refugee crisis is a review of the European Union's Dublin Regulation, which states that immigrants into the EU have to ask asylum in the first country the set foot in. Now, this evidently is very disadvantageous to countries like Italy and Greece and such a demand is therefore only fair. Is it not? Well, I bet your alt right friends elsewhere in Europe aren't too keen on alleviating the pressure or paying extra to the EU for external border security. They're the ones wanting to close their borders and leave you to deal with all theby yourself. Seems your 'Eurosceptics' are going to need all the help they can from the 'liberal establishment'.
"Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -
Just a sausage
Re: Out with the old: Italy's election is another blow to the EU liberal establishment
at the end of the day, eurosceptics all want the benefit of the union, without paying for it. after all, conservative establishment is still the establishment. what a hoax.
Comes Domesticorum
Re: Out with the old: Italy's election is another blow to the EU liberal establishment
Told you having any hope on any establishment is looking for disappointment.
Breatannach Romanus
Re: Out with the old: Italy's election is another blow to the EU liberal establishment
What am i missing here? Wasn't Lega Nord some far rights who wanted Northern Italy to secede from the South? Do the people in Catania remember that?
Quem faz injúria vil e sem razão,Com forças e poder em que está posto,Não vence; que a vitória verdadeira É saber ter justiça nua e inteira-He who, solely to oppress,Employs or martial force, or power, achieves No victory; but a true victory Is gained,when justice triumphs and prevails.
Luís de Camões
Praeses
Re: Out with the old: Italy's election is another blow to the EU liberal establishment
The economical, political and cultural split between North and South Italy will be covered, as long as scapegoats like immigrants, leftists, soros conspiracy can be exploited.
Cause tomorrow is a brand-new day
And tomorrow you'll be on your way
Don't give a damn about what other people say
Because tomorrow is a brand-new day
member 3519
Re: Out with the old: Italy's election is another blow to the EU liberal establishment
I don't know why they keep bringing that Soros guy up as if it means something. Apart from alt righters I don't think anybody knows or cares about him.
"Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -
Re: Out with the old: Italy's election is another blow to the EU liberal establishment
I'm not sure if even those things could cover up the north-south divide in Italy as I think there will be a lot of bickering within the Lega Nord-Five Star Movement coalition over issues like which regions need funding and development the most. Also while I disagree with many of the policies of the coalition, I admit I have a lot more sympathy for the populist movements in the south than the ones in the north as despite massive development schemes and recent economic improvements, the Mezzogiorno is still is a much less developed region when comparing to other wealthier regions in Italy with it still suffering from massive economic and social problems which include high unemployment and emigration rates.
The reason why they keep bring Soros up is because they see him as some sort of a sinister political figure who secretly topples governments "new world order" style and replace them with a more "leftist" one, a sort of of an ultimate boogeyman for the Alt right.
Last edited by RandomPerson2000; June 04, 2018 at 04:14 PM.
Re: Out with the old: Italy's election is another blow to the EU liberal establishment
50 to 60% of Hungarians and Italians care. I guess they are ''alt right''. The label used by the extreme left to claim moral superiority because it can't win debates, ironically because it resorts to slander and label like this.
As for Soros himself, unsurprisingly, he was in Italy, yesterday, saying that ''the right won because Putin meddled in Italian elections''.
It's funny because Soros himself likely put money in a party that got a tiny 2.6% of the votes. That's why ''he's relevant''.
Of course it's convenient to bury our heads deep in the sand when a foreign oligarch meddles in elections. Or it isn't...
Ad hominem. Great argument for the trash can.
The new leader (Salvini) of Lega ditched the ''Northern'' element and the separatist agenda to turn it into a nationalist party.It worked well in a moment where most parties are in disarray and disliked by most people. Nonetheless the new Lega didn't get too many votes in the South. Their core electorate remains in the North, because obviously you can't spend 20 years insulting Southerners and then beg for their vote. M5S got a landslide in the South.
Nonetheless Salvini isn't from the first generation of Lega Nord politicians, thus his name is less poisonous to Southern voters. The name of the party still is.
Last edited by Basil II the B.S; June 04, 2018 at 04:32 PM.
Comes Limitis
Re: Out with the old: Italy's election is another blow to the EU liberal establishment
Don't blame Italy. The Populist government in Italy is the inevitable consequence of a chronic economic mismanagement in the eurozone.
Edit. I forgot to mention the corruption.
I agree with W. Munchau's analysis. From the Financial Times, Lack of reform, not Italy, will break the eurozone.
That's Munchau plan's A. Completely unrealistic, Germany will never agree. Sadly, the plan B, the breakup of the eurozone, is more realistic- given the existence of a sempiternal Germany-South Europe divide, the German surplus, bad for Europe. It's necessary to deepen the euro currency union, or let it die. Macron rightly called it - as it is now - a "half-pregnancy", and predicted, sic: The euro may not exist in 10 years’ time if Paris and Berlin fail to bolster the single currency union"Stop treating the euro as an article of faith and fight for its sustainability.
Italy could use its weight in the upcoming appointments of the EU’s most important jobs: the presidents of the European Commission, the European Council and the ECB
If you are really pro-euro, my advice is to stop treating the euro as an article of faith but fight for its sustainability. That fight cannot be won in Italy alone. It requires big policy shifts in Brussels too
In fact, we have been saying this for years.
Last edited by Ludicus; June 04, 2018 at 05:58 PM.
Il y a quelque chose de pire que d'avoir une âme perverse. C’est d'avoir une âme habituée
Charles Péguy
Every human society must justify its inequalities: reasons must be found because, without them, the whole political and social edifice is in danger of collapsing”.
Thomas Piketty
Re: Out with the old: Italy's election is another blow to the EU liberal establishment
Munchau is spot on indeed. Even Dahrendorf predicted it 2 decades ago: ''the Euro is going to split Europeans, it will not lead to agreement but to fights''.
https://www.tagesspiegel.de/wirtscha...ten/68204.html
Also this:
JPMorgan's Stunning Conclusion: An Italian Exit May Be Rome's Best Option
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...es-best-optionJPMorgan's Stunning Conclusion: An Italian Exit May Be Rome's Best Option
Comes Limitis
Re: Out with the old: Italy's election is another blow to the EU liberal establishment
Yes, it was and no, Sicilians are not people used to forget, but now .. the times they are a changin'
This is a good analysis of the Italian political earthquake:
.. Viva l'Italia!
Last edited by Diocle; June 05, 2018 at 08:55 AM.
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