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Thread: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

  1. #61
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    Modified helmets for the High Helms, with faction colours (also applies to the horse armor), and chariot

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    I still have generic heavy and light chariot





    But I changed the textures for the helmet, and the chariot, of the unique chariots recruitable only in Tiranoc





    Thaks agin to Woodtur who shared his chariot texture!

    Last edited by Steph; December 30, 2018 at 11:56 PM.

  2. #62
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    I'm doing the final touch with the info card, I hope to ahve everything done soon.

    So I'm starting to think about the future of the mod.

    I think the concept I used for the HE will work quite well for Bretonnia and Empire, but I will make it later.


    I want to finish the Elves first.


    For Wood Elf, there won't really be a concept of "generic" units recruitable in the rest of the world vs Athel Loren. Because of WE recruitment mechanism, they'll recruit directly the equivalent of HE heraldic and unique units. So their rosters will be simplier. I may however keep the concept of regular/unit (Eternal Guard - Eternal Warden for exemple). And I don't plan to have a region specific bonus or unique unit for them.


    For the Dark Elves, I'd like suggestion of how to handle them.


    First, I think they won't have the regular/elite versions. I don't fill like having Dreadspear - Lordling Dreadspear. Their "elite" sound too much like a hero/officer.


    But I'd like to have the generic weaker for rest of the world, and normal unit for Naggaroth.


    So at least two "versions" of the unit. For the normal versions, I have several possibilties


    1) They can the same for every Dark Elves region (ie a Dreadspear from Naggarond will be the same as a Dreadspear from Har Ganeth) and a global unit cap (ex: 40 dreadspear)
    2) They can be the same model, with different colour and cpa (ex: 10 for Dreadspear from Naggarond, 10 more for Har Ganeth...)
    3) They can b real heralric units (ie with different shield heraldry.


    I'm thinking option 2 could be fun, and not too difficult to do. Option 1 would be the fastest to do.
    What do you think ?


    I'm not sure how to handle special / rare units.
    1) Should the Black Guard be recruitable only in Naggarond, and nowhere else?
    2) Should there be the Elite version in Naggarond, and a generic Black Guards available in every DE region, but not in the rest of the world?
    3) Should there be the Elite version in Naggarond, and a generic Black Guards available in every region, including outside of Naggarond?


    According to lore, I think there are actually few units which should be limited to a specific region
    - Black Guard in Naggarond
    - Executionner in Har Ganeth
    - Cold One in Hag Graef
    - War hydra in Karond Kar


    Do you see other units which should be limited to a region?

  3. #63

    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    Looks Great.
    About Dark elves, I dont know really, maybey manticores, beastmasters, Doomfire Warlocks

  4. #64
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    Hi Steph, really great mod,cannot wait for it to be finished My HE heart cannot give you enough rep...I added some ideas. HOpe it will helps at least in discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    Buildings:
    - The landmark buildings have been extended. In Ulthuan, each of them starts at level 1 for settlement level 1, and goes up to level 5 (4 only for landmarks without a level 5 initially). The initial level is not expensive, other are more expensive. I've spread the bonus given for each level. For example, if the landmarks building initially gave a +10 bonus (at level 5), then you'd get +2 at level 1, +4 at level 2, etc. This means you can start getting the benefits sooner, but to get the full benefits it will be more expensive (since you need to pay for each intermediate level).
    - I have added a few levels to some buildings to have a more spread recruitment of units.
    - Settlements give a little less garrison units, but the other buildings can also contribute to the garrison.
    - Specialized buldings (barracks, stable) increase the capacity of the units which are limited.
    - Landmarks buildings increase the capacity of the associated units.
    Sounds good, only question is size and power of garrison. I usually feels that in late game the garrison is quite weak and instead of having multiple weak units it would be great if garrison were improving in strenght a bit more in time. This would also help AI to be able to survive into late game. This is maybe general topic not linked with HE only. The rest ideas are very well done! Only possible idea i have is, in region with resources maybe having more complex building tree for resource building. Example could like having Iron Mine with later two possible ways of developing. Maybe one for economic purpose..more resource, effects in such way and second option like Ironforge or something with bigger garrison,recruitment and such bonuses insetad of economic ones..

    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    Ok, so I did some testing, and it seems the resource ARE working. I have added a HE_N resource to the star tower, made it a requirement for Spearmen, and started a campaign with Tyrion, another with Teclis.
    Tyrion cannot recruit Spearmen, but Teclis can

    Now, I have two possible solutions for my mod

    1) Use landmarks. Idea: Spearman have a "generic" weaker version, recruitable with the Barracks, but anywhere (Ulthuan, and rest of the World). Then, I have special hearldic spearmen (exemple: eataine Spearmen), that requires the Lothern landmark as primary requirement, and the barracks as additional requirements.
    This way, HE can recruit better spearmen, in Ulthuan only, and have to recruit weaker units elsewhere
    Since I limited the umber of heraldic units, it means you can recruit a core of "strong" units in Ulthuan kingdoms, and outside you only have weaker units, and if you reach your limit of strong heraldic units, you also need to fall back to weaker units to complete your roster
    It works, and doesn't reequire startpos editing. However, it requires a Landmark. Works well for Ulthuan since there is a landmark virtualkly everywhere, but poor Teclis is stuck with weaker units, and his start position is thus even harder.

    2) Use resource ID. I could give region specific resource everywhere, so my Eataine spearmen can only be recruited in Eataine, not using Landmarks. This would be more flexible, can work more precisely as I could tweak it region by region. But requires a lot of startpos changes

    What do you think of both methods?
    Second option is probably better. It is more complex but looking forward, if you will have multiple races/factions overlays for unit recruitment. Having unique resource ID and thus unique building version in that region allows you to tinker recruitment for all possible races in that particular region. Plus the buildings won´t be showing all unavailable units from different regions right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    For Wood Elf, there won't really be a concept of "generic" units recruitable in the rest of the world vs Athel Loren. Because of WE recruitment mechanism, they'll recruit directly the equivalent of HE heraldic and unique units. So their rosters will be simplier. I may however keep the concept of regular/unit (Eternal Guard - Eternal Warden for exemple). And I don't plan to have a region specific bonus or unique unit for them.
    What about Worldroots? Maybe the easier way to implement would be different outpost building tree (if not making special building/landmark..) in some regions. Like little bigger outpost? Maybe having even better replenishment? Honestly I could imagine this region granting access to some special units, limited in numbers. Ye it is exactly what you trying avoid :/ I would add just some spirit inspired units like feral? guardian? primal? wild? ...Tree-Kin,Treeman,Dryads to these Worldroots outposts. Limited in numbers, recruitable only in these regions. Cap depending on how many worldroots player control?

    Reason is, for WE there are not many interesting regions...like just Lothern,Oreon´s Camp... can be build like Athen Loren. This way there there will be a few more regions..like 1 per continent? 1 more in Lustria, Naggaroth and so..
    http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Worldroots
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    For the Dark Elves, I'd like suggestion of how to handle them.
    First, I think they won't have the regular/elite versions. I don't fill like having Dreadspear - Lordling Dreadspear. Their "elite" sound too much like a hero/officer.
    But I'd like to have the generic weaker for rest of the world, and normal unit for Naggaroth.
    So at least two "versions" of the unit. For the normal versions, I have several possibilties

    1) They can the same for every Dark Elves region (ie a Dreadspear from Naggarond will be the same as a Dreadspear from Har Ganeth) and a global unit cap (ex: 40 dreadspear)
    2) They can be the same model, with different colour and cpa (ex: 10 for Dreadspear from Naggarond, 10 more for Har Ganeth...)
    3) They can b real heralric units (ie with different shield heraldry.

    I'm thinking option 2 could be fun, and not too difficult to do. Option 1 would be the fastest to do.
    What do you think ?
    Option 2) is good. One version for Naggarond with different colours and caps per city and second lesser/generic version for rest of the world. I would however add the Naggarond version to Black Archs. Maybe have them with little different coulour schemes as Archs are basically oversee Druchii bases.

    I'm not sure how to handle special / rare units.
    1) Should the Black Guard be recruitable only in Naggarond, and nowhere else?
    2) Should there be the Elite version in Naggarond, and a generic Black Guards available in every DE region, but not in the rest of the world?
    3) Should there be the Elite version in Naggarond, and a generic Black Guards available in every region, including outside of Naggarond?

    According to lore, I think there are actually few units which should be limited to a specific region
    - Black Guard in Naggarond
    - Executionner in Har Ganeth
    - Cold One in Hag Graef
    - War hydra in Karond Kar
    Do you see other units which should be limited to a region?
    Yes, I would limit them to these regions as well. If player is holding the key region and build special building he would be then able to recruit Black Guard for example and this building chain will also allow players to recruit limited and slightly worse version in rest of empire....in Naggarond. And of course Black Archs again! Thus player would need to utilise Archs abroad.
    Last edited by Daruwind; July 14, 2018 at 03:54 PM.

  5. #65
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    Sounds good, only question is size and power of garrison. I usually feels that in late game the garrison is quite weak and instead of having multiple weak units it would be great if garrison were improving in strenght a bit more in time. This would also help AI to be able to survive into late game. This is maybe general topic not linked with HE only. The rest ideas are very well done! Only possible idea i have is, in region with resources maybe having more complex building tree for resource building. Example could like having Iron Mine with later two possible ways of developing. Maybe one for economic purpose..more resource, effects in such way and second option like Ironforge or something with bigger garrison,recruitment and such bonuses insetad of economic ones..
    I actually reworked the garrison, and hopefully you should get better garrison units if you build several higher level buildings (barracks, stable, etc). Not only from the main settlement and walls. Maybe I could expand economical building linked to resource later.

    Second option is probably better. It is more complex but looking forward, if you will have multiple races/factions overlays for unit recruitment. Having unique resource ID and thus unique building version in that region allows you to tinker recruitment for all possible races in that particular region. Plus the buildings won´t be showing all unavailable units from different regions right?
    It's more complex than that. If I use a resource as requirement, then the building will only show the available unit for this region... except it displays ALL the icons for every possible units. See below how the militia camp displays the generic and Eataine spearmen, and not Avelorn... But the icons for every spearmen, swordmen, etc is shown? I consider it a bug (text is correctly filtered, icons are not).... but CA answered that since resource are kind of a left over from Rome and not really used, they won't fix it.



    It may be fixed by creating special buildings chains (Eataine Barracks), available only in Eataine. But.... if I make it a replacement of the current barrack, it means you cannot build the generic barracks... which is required for the first technology... and so many side effects...



    What about Worldroots? Maybe the easier way to implement would be different outpost building tree (if not making special building/landmark..) in some regions. Like little bigger outpost? Maybe having even better replenishment? Honestly I could imagine this region granting access to some special units, limited in numbers. Ye it is exactly what you trying avoid :/ I would add just some spirit inspired units like feral? guardian? primal? wild? ...Tree-Kin,Treeman,Dryads to these Worldroots outposts. Limited in numbers, recruitable only in these regions. Cap depending on how many worldroots player control?

    Reason is, for WE there are not many interesting regions...like just Lothern,Oreon´s Camp... can be build like Athen Loren. This way there there will be a few more regions..like 1 per continent? 1 more in Lustria, Naggaroth and so..
    http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Worldroots
    Maybe I'll use a way to add a few more interesting spots to recruit a few units as WE. But they won't be many units, and they won't have heraldic uniforms. So in term of unit rosters, the WE willl not be as extensive as the HE..


    Option 2) is good. One version for Naggarond with different colours and caps per city and second lesser/generic version for rest of the world. I would however add the Naggarond version to Black Archs. Maybe have them with little different coulour schemes as Archs are basically oversee Druchii bases.

    Yes, I would limit them to these regions as well. If player is holding the key region and build special building he would be then able to recruit Black Guard for example and this building chain will also allow players to recruit limited and slightly worse version in rest of empire....in Naggarond. And of course Black Archs again! Thus player would need to utilise Archs abroad.
    Yes, this was also my current preference

  6. #66
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    I have updated post #4 with the final icons and full roster for HE.

  7. #67
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    Damn fine work, cannot wait to play it

  8. #68
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    I've "finished" to add the region specific building for recruitment. Running a campaign with Alarielle to check everything runs fine.

    I hope I can publish a beta version soon.

  9. #69
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    After testing, I've found a few bugs with the slots which lead to a game crash when trying to recruit a hero. I hope it's now corrected.

    I have also modified a bit the building. In any region in Ulthuan you can have barracks and stable up to level 4, and can recruit elite generic units (like Sentinel spearmen).

    Out of Ulthuan, you are limited to level 3 barracks/stable, and can recruit elite units.

  10. #70
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    Beta version published on Steam at last!!!

    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...?id=1456177922

  11. #71

    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    Great , will be sure to check it out !

    Into the fires of battle, unto the anvil of war!

  12. #72
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    Warning: when trying the campaign today, I noticed that the game can often crash when loading a battle instead of using autoresolve. I'm not sure if it is because of a specific faulty units, or another issue

  13. #73
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    I did more tests... and it's really puzzling.
    If I try in custom battle to have a full army A with my modded units, and put in army B some empire troops for exemple, everything is fine. So when I tested them individually like that, all my units were working.
    But if I try a custom battle with only one lord and one modded unit on each side (so a minimal test, with minimal potential conflict) the game crashes when loading the battle.

    I have no idea why yet...

    And it seems the same happens in the campaign: if you try a battle HE vs DE, it should work. But one HE faction against another: game crashes when trying to fight the battle.

    You'd have to use auto resolve then until I manage to find the real cause of the crash and how to solve it.

  14. #74
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    I think I nailed the bug. Apparently, using the standard_bearer slots to give 5 bodyguards to the officer doesn't work well. A battle starts OK if you have units with this slot in only one side, but it crashes if both sides have units with this slot.

    Prelimary tests shows that using only officer and musician slots, so with 3 bodyguards instead of 5, solve the issue. I'm doing more tests to confirm.

    Now, I want to open a discussion.

    Some poeple prefer staying closer to the lore, and avoid extra units such as Swordmen, Pikemen, Pegasi maidens...

    I could adapt the mod to have a core pack with all the units ready inside, but only the standard units would be recruitable.

    And then make one or more optional pack to activate the extra units (i.e. add them to garrison list, and to the building_level_units junction table).

    But before doing this I'd like your feedback, about what should be optional, what should be in the core.

    Candidates for optional

    - Swordmen
    - Pikemen
    - Unicorn maiden
    - Pegasi maiden
    - Griffon riders
    - Spear Sisters, Bow Sisters, Spear Maiden and Bow maiden: extra female units available in any Ulthuan province (I didn't want to lose the work on texture I did before CA release Q&C DLC)
    - Elite female units in Avelorn (one with dual swords, one with two handed lance)
    - Elite version of the units (sentinels, hawkeyes, high helms...)
    - Generic version of elite units (ex: axemen vs White Lions). If I make them optional, it means some units can be recruited in only one region (ie White Lions only in Chrace, Swordmasters only in Saphery, Dragon Princes only in Caledor), and not at all outside!

  15. #75
    Aguirre's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    Damn Steph, that's some life's work you have there

  16. #76
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    Clar Karond

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Core units


    Special units





    Icons done for one more faction
    Last edited by Steph; December 30, 2018 at 11:56 PM.

  17. #77
    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    I have finished the icons for the Dark Elves, and the is available on Steam.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Monsters

    Spoiler for Units list:





    Regiments of Renown

    Spoiler for Units list:





    Bleak Holds

    Core units


    Special units




    Blodd Hall Coven

    Core units


    Special units



    Clar Karond

    Core units


    Special units




    Cult of Excess

    Core units


    Special units



    Cult of Pleasure

    Core units


    Special units




    Deadwood Sentinels

    Core units


    Special units




    Drackla Coven

    Core units


    Special units



    Ghrond

    Core units


    Special units


    Hag Graef

    Core units


    Special units



    Har Ganeth

    Core units


    Special units


    Karond Kar


    Core units


    Special units



    Naggarond

    Core units


    Special units




    Scourge of Khaine

    Core units


    Special units


    SS'ildra Tor


    Core units


    Special units



    The Forgebounds

    Core units


    Special units


    Last edited by Steph; December 30, 2018 at 11:57 PM.

  18. #78
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    I have started work on the WE.

    Concepts
    - They can still recruit most of there units in Athel Loren regions only.
    - They will however be able to recruit basic spearmen /archer from colonies to help with public order.
    - Units will still cost Amber, but maybe a little less since they will also be capped
    - Units will have different uniforms depending in what Athel Loren region they are recruited.
    - Units will have a normal and elite version (ex: eternal guard, eternal warden).
    - I'd like the WE to look more wild than the others, and with less uniformed colours. So each unit will feature some colour variations for more randomness

  19. #79
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    What do you think of these idea for WE?

    1) And heraldic symbol on the cape (of course it will vary with the faction)
    2 Have a kind of camo pattern? Ridiculous or interesting?


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Last edited by Steph; December 30, 2018 at 11:58 PM.

  20. #80
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    Default Re: SWO-RD : Steph's Warhammer Overhaul - Recruitment Diversity

    What do you think of these concepts

    Green/blue metallic for the normal soldiers (similar to the WE weapon colours), with some Amber decoration

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    And for elite units (Eternal Warden), Amber colour + Green/blue decoration





    Is it nice? Going too far from lore?
    Last edited by Steph; December 30, 2018 at 11:58 PM.

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