1403: Kingdom Come Total War AOC Overhaul

[welshy91]

I love the idea for Henry as a champion. Would you able to make a priest called Jan Hus for the Kingdom of Bohemia?
If you didn't know already he's basically the guy who after his death for his guilt of heresy, who the Hussite movement sprang from. There's also Jan Zizka the general for the Hussite movement, I'm pretty sure there's a general bodyguard unit for him from MK 1212.
Keep up the good work

[Athos187]

Yep, I heard about him by playing Kingdom come. I'm just not sure if he would fit in as a faction character since he was anti establishment, he would probably work better as a heretic like in medieval 2

I'll make sure to check out that jan zizka bodyguard unit tho, want to add that in and I think they also made a wagon fort unit

[Slytacular]

Dude, finish the other twenty mods you never finished before you start another one. If you want to make a unit roster for one faction in MKTW, you'll be a lot more happier achieving that than starting up another empty promised mod.

[Athos187]

Well I've released finished versions of Imperator Romanum, Age of Martel, 356 and I'm about to release Fall of the West so I think it's fair to say that I've produced completed mods.

The only thing that has slowed down progress on Age of Rollo and 1066 is a lack of unit cards and other UI but I'm finally starting to get help on those and they will be finished this year.

And this mod already has all of the UI finished thanks to Finix and Art Studio so it will be completed in a timely manner.

I can help with a faction roster for MKTW too if you want though, just send me a PM with the info and I would be glad to help you all out

[PhilipO'Hayda]

Great Work!! personally I would have had only eastern Kingdoms being playable but great mod non the less.

[banskie100]

Some of those early 15th century French units have more a mish-mashed models that has been used. For example, some used armets while others used greatbascinets, looks too off. The commoners are way too armoured. Also You should properly categorize your units according to their class. Professional Units are not necessary too and look very armoured that they looked like men at arms/knights. Too many spear and shield units instead they use more polearmes. Dismounted Knights prefers poleaxes over sword and shield.

Just study the 15th century arms and armours. Also their military organizations, though it may vary accross countries and regions.

[Athos187]

Well I just try and base them off what I see in the manuscript minatures, these are all from France and dated 1400 - 1410:

You can clearly see a few armets and a few bascinets that have begun to develop curved visors that would eventually become the great bascinet. My logic behind the skins was to show a development away from the pointed hounskull of the 14th century to the great bascinet and then the armet and sallet.






The professional soldiers are indeed meant to be men at arms which I read were pretty indistinguishable from actual knights. For the commoners I will admit I was working more on inspiration from the guards stationed in the settlements in Kingdom Come and they will probably need to be looked at. As for the spear and shield units I'm pretty sure those were just reskinned units from the medieval kingdoms custom battle mod and there are also tons of spears in the illustrations from the time.

If you have any good research links I can use I would be very grateful

[banskie100]

My error, what I mean is the "Greathelm", should've remove them. Yeah agree, the early armets we're still experimental in this time in the "Italy". But you used the wrong model for it, I made that model specificaly in 2nd half of 15th century. Remember, this time the bascinets were still dominant. Maybe I don't know your aim, if you're going for an "Accurate" mod or just another "Gamey" type.

Professional Infantry is a more generalized term, you should go for more specific. Polearmes like voulges, bills, guisarmes were a very commoner's weapon. Men at arms and Knights preferably use "Poleaxes" this time "IF" fighting on foot. Also in the Battle of Agincourt French Knights dismounts and cut their lances and use it as a sort of pike. If I were you, you should contact Zsimmortal regarding this faction as he is the one who helped me in the French faction.


Also, some of the blue color textures are too saturated, should change 'em.

Still, it is your mod. It depends on you how you're going to make it.

[Athos187]

I appreciate any feedback and I love your models. Well its technically a sugarloaf helm and I read they were still worn over open faced bascinets during this time period, they specifically believe that Henry V survived the blow to the head during the battle of agincourt because he had the double protection BUT I actually havent seen any illustrations from the time period for them. I think a few worn by the very elite troops are appropriate.

I do want to get an accurate look for the units but sometimes the models just dont exist and I try and make do with what is available. I'm kind of being pulled back into 1066 now as we have a unit card creator again and a shield maker but when I get back to this I intend to rework the skins with your recommendations in mind.

Thanks for taking the time to give me some feedback

Edit: That model your referring to is a greathelm and will be replaced again with the sugarloaf which was there before

[Knight2708]

This looks very promising and I really like the premise and time period.

A few things to point out regarding the campaign:

There was no unified kingdom of Sicily in 1403, as it was split between the Angevin-ruled Kingdom of Naples in southern Italy and the Aragonese-ruled island of Sicily, also called Kingdom of Trinacria.

Milan was a Duchy in the 15th century.

The Swiss should have the well-known Swiss cross banner as a faction icon. While it was not yet that widely used at the beginning of the 15th century, it is still much more appropriate than using the Coat of arms of the Bishopric of Basel which was not a member of the Confederacy.

The Hungarian king in the faction selection screen is wearing the CoA of the Angevin Dynasty which ruled Hungary in the 14th century, not that of Sigismund.

Also most of the character ages seem to be off, for example in 1403 Rupert of the Palatinate was 51 years old and Charles VI of France was 35.

The French roster looks very nice overall, but there are also several things that I have to comment on about the roster:

Handgunners should definitely be considered professional troops. In the 15th century firearms were still new and those who handled them were usually trained specialists. I would also argue that they should only become available later after researching some necessary technologies. Sure some handguns would have existed in 1403, but they most likely would have been too rare and primitive to see anything resembling widespread battlefield use.

Mounted crossbowmen should also be classed as professional, due to the skill required to shoot a crossbow from horseback and honestly any soldier that can afford even a cheap horse should probably be classed as professional.

Pavise shields were already in use during the 14th century. There is no reason why pavisiers should be a special unit that can only be unlocked later in the game.

“Castellans” doesn't really make sense as a unit name. Firstly castellans, being the commanders of castles would, despite Europe having quite a lot of castles, not have been numerous enough to warrant being represented as their own unit. They also would not have fought alongside other castellans, but with the garrisons they commanded and they likely would have fought on the battlefield rather rarely, as their duty was to command castle garrisons. Castellans would also most likely have been of knightly or higher status themselves and commanded other knights, so having them as a unit inferior to knights makes little sense.
I would suggest combining the models of the “Sergeants” and “Castellans” units into a single unit and naming that unit “Sergeants”, as Sergeants themselves should definitely be considered professional troops.

[Athos187]

Great feedback! Thanks

[Knight2708]

Great feedback! Thanks

Always glad to help out best as I can. I can also PM you some stuff about medieval German armies and military organisation for the HRE roster if you're interested.

[Athos187]

Sure, I'll take any help I can get

[Knight2708]

Sure, I'll take any help I can get

Alright. Expect a message sometime this week.
One question: what is your plan regarding unit names? Do you prefer to use mostly English names like you did with the French roster or are you interested in using native language unit names?

[Athos187]

I'll probably just stick with english

[Athos187]

Planning on finishing this as soon as I release my Age of Rollo overhaul. Right now I'm looking into whether or not I can use warhammer models since they have some nice stuff that can be used for the very late game units.

I'll be posting some screenshots if I can successfully pull that import off

[Commissar Caligula_]

Planning on finishing this as soon as I release my Age of Rollo overhaul. Right now I'm looking into whether or not I can use warhammer models since they have some nice stuff that can be used for the very late game units.

I'll be posting some screenshots if I can successfully pull that import off

I know you can import models from Attila to WH2, so I imagine its possible to do it the other way. idk whether you're actually allowed to however.
Take a look at the Rusted PFM tool though, I think that lets you do the model porting stuff.

[Athos187]

Ya I've heard there is a way. I just decided to work on a little renaissance themed mod for Warhammer 2 tho so that that kind of satisfied my urge to have a project dealing with that time period.

This mod will just focus exclusively on the 15th century

[Athos187]

Been working on this mod again and I have come up with a new unit roster system idea that I would like to get some historical feedback on.

In an attempt to make this mod feel more historically accurate and different from all the other medieval mods out there I have come up with a unit system based on the medieval military group called the Lance or Gleve.

This was the medieval equivalent of a modern squad and was generally comprised of a knight, his squire, a man at arms and two to three commoners. Several of these were then grouped under the command of a knight banneret.

So instead of having big blocks of knights or men at arms or peasants I would have only 3 primary units lead by a knight banneret:
1. Dismounted Lance
2. Mounted Lance
3. Missile Lance (Might be wrong but I dont think knights used crossbows or longbows so this unit would be lead by men at arms)

Unit ratio will be:
1 Knight (Heavy Armour)
1 Man at Arms (Medium Armour)
1 Squire (Light Armour)
2 Commoners (No Armour)

*Armour rating is based on first tier, with each tier upgrade seeing better equipped troops

You then have 4 equipment upgrade tiers that incrementally improve the weapons and armour of the men and also update them to show the evolution taking place in weapon and armour crafting technology. Each tier would be based on the recruitment building which will be changed from a barracks to an estate held by the leading knights of the lances. As their estates are enlarged they are able to afford better equipment for their supporting man at arms, squire and commoners. In addition to these mixed unit groups there will also be town and city militia units whose equipment is improved with city settlement upgrades (not sure if they should be recruitable for campaign armies) and royal and noble bodyguard units made up entirely of mounted knights which you will get from palace settlement upgrades.

This will allow a faction like France to have palace settlements and recreate their large heavy cavalry military establishment, Italian factions will have city settlements and rely on urban militias and England will have a special longbow man lance unit that they get from their estates.

Later on towards the IV tier the more professional companies like the swiss mercenaries and the Garde Ecossaise will become available to reflect the trend toward the professional armies that occurred during the late 15th century.

This will lead to less of a rock, paper, scissors unit roster design and more towards a organic battle system based on getting better equipment and training through recruitment building upgrades. To add some complexity to this system I think the higher estate upgrades for the knights should have significant negative public order side effects. So you can have the best equipped troops but there will be more civil wars. Inevitably it will be easier to rule using mostly mercenary armies.

I am thinking 100 men units under a knight banneret would be appropriate but I would like some historical feedback on what the size of each unit should be. Also need some ideas on unit purchase price and maintenance cost.

[GalangKaluluwa]

Been working on this mod again and I have come up with a new unit roster system idea that I would like to get some historical feedback on.

In an attempt to make this mod feel more historically accurate and different from all the other medieval mods out there I have come up with a unit system based on the medieval military group called the Lance or Gleve.

This was the medieval equivalent of a modern squad and was generally comprised of a knight, his squire, a man at arms and two to three commoners. Several of these were then grouped under the command of a knight banneret.

So instead of having big blocks of knights or men at arms or peasants I would have only 3 primary units lead by a knight banneret:
1. Dismounted Lance
2. Mounted Lance
3. Missile Lance (Might be wrong but I dont think knights used crossbows or longbows so this unit would be lead by men at arms)

Unit ratio will be:
1 Knight (Heavy Armour)
1 Man at Arms (Medium Armour)
1 Squire (Light Armour)
2 Commoners (No Armour)

*Armour rating is based on first tier, with each tier upgrade seeing better equipped troops

You then have 4 equipment upgrade tiers that incrementally improve the weapons and armour of the men and also update them to show the evolution taking place in weapon and armour crafting technology. Each tier would be based on the recruitment building which will be changed from a barracks to an estate held by the leading knights of the lances. As their estates are enlarged they are able to afford better equipment for their supporting man at arms, squire and commoners. In addition to these mixed unit groups there will also be town and city militia units whose equipment is improved with city settlement upgrades (not sure if they should be recruitable for campaign armies) and royal and noble bodyguard units made up entirely of mounted knights which you will get from palace settlement upgrades.

This will allow a faction like France to have palace settlements and recreate their large heavy cavalry military establishment, Italian factions will have city settlements and rely on urban militias and England will have a special longbow man lance unit that they get from their estates.

Later on towards the IV tier the more professional companies like the swiss mercenaries and the Garde Ecossaise will become available to reflect the trend toward the professional armies that occurred during the late 15th century.

This will lead to less of a rock, paper, scissors unit roster design and more towards a organic battle system based on getting better equipment and training through recruitment building upgrades. To add some complexity to this system I think the higher estate upgrades for the knights should have significant negative public order side effects. So you can have the best equipped troops but there will be more civil wars. Inevitably it will be easier to rule using mostly mercenary armies.

I am thinking 100 men units under a knight banneret would be appropriate but I would like some historical feedback on what the size of each unit should be. Also need some ideas on unit purchase price and maintenance cost.

Oh my God, that sounds awesome! That actually gets me excited for the release of this submod!