Idea - the Fourth Age sub mod (based on FATW)

**athanaric** · February 16, 2018, 02:57 PM

So, here's an idea for a sub-mod that hasn't been done yet.

Some of you may have heard of the Rome: Total War mod Fourth Age: Total War. It's one of the two Tolkien-themed RTW mods featured on this forum (the other being LotR:TW, which is the spiritual predecessor to TATW). What makes FATW special is
a) the setting, i.e. the Fourth Age, after the War of the Ring and the reign of Aragorn, and
b) its independent design, which tries to be as lore-accurate as possible and doesn't draw from the movie adaptations or other merchandise (although it's difficult not to be influenced by them in some way).

FATW is one of the oldest TW fantasy mods; there have been many suggestions over the years to port it to the M2TW engine, but these were declined because the mod team has been quite small for many years now, and hardly any of the members have experience modding M2TW; also, some have expressed a preference for RTW due to the different battle mechanics (M2TW battles feel laggy and somewhat, um, diffuse?, and unit responses are quite sluggish. Also, there is no lethality parameter).

Nonetheless, after dabbling in TATW and BC, and getting into EB II, I believe the M2TW engine is vastly superior, for two reasons:
One, better diplomacy – RTW's diplomatic system would make even the Nazis blush
Two, a better recruitment system – it can prevent endless stack spam and population depletion, very much unlike in RTW
These are K.O. criteria for anyone playing campaigns and not just custom battles. The graphical improvements etc. are more of an afterthought in this case.

Therefore, I had the idea to ask the TATW community to approach this concept. As for myself, I have no skills as a modeller, skinner, or coder, nor, I'm afraid, do I have the resources to learn these techniques. I have, however, come up with detailed plans to change existing FATW units and implement faction reforms.

Adapting FATW as a sub-mod, instead of rebuilding it from scratch (like the EB II team did) would mean saving a significant portion of the work:
- the maps would be a modified version of TATW maps, with FATW provinces etc. on the strategic map and lore-accurate changes on some of the battlemaps (e.g. Minas Tirith with slightly altered design and a black outermost wall).
- Some of the TATW units might be tweaked with different skinsand weapon sets (I guess).
- The stat system of TATW, or preferably its most realisticsub-mods, could be used.

There are some other positive effects as well:
- Fewer, if any, copyright issues.
- Since most factions in FATW, including Harad, but particularly Rhûn and Dale, are so different from their TATW counterparts interms of design, there would be zero need to use the most iconic TATW skins (there's no place for Loke-rim or full plate armour in FATW). Ergo, fewer permissions to ask for.
- The basic design, the tech trees, the descriptions, the map blueprints, soundtrack, and the unit rosters (complete with balance) are already there and just need to be adapted. There are some changes suggested by yours truly (particularly the Dwarf roster – e.g. adding Dwarf crossbows similar to those in TATW), but they wouldn't really matter in terms of workload.

The main disadvantage I see is that few, if any, of the actual FATW team would be in a position to help out, due to time constraints, unfamiliarity with the engine, or not being active anymore. That's why I'm calling on you guys, both for feedback and to see who might be interested in partaking in such a task.

This would be a chance for the TATW community to explore an entirely different era, a different artistic take on the subject matter, a low-fantasy setting with a more ambiguous, "grey" scale of good and evil instead of the two sides we have in the other eras, and new play styles without having to deal with the quirks of an inferior game engine.

Anyone who wants to get a feel for FATW in order to better understand what I'm raving about, check out the link in my signature, etc.

Alright, now tell me I'm crazy and delusional

**bushmonster951** · February 16, 2018, 04:40 PM

I think PCP has a working Fourth Age campaign.

**athanaric** · February 17, 2018, 03:52 AM

Originally Posted by bushmonster951

I think PCP has a working Fourth Age campaign.

Hmm, yes. I like how they have a bigger map, but I couldn't find any screen shots upon a quick search. Also, from what I understand their mod seems based on the movies and TATW Vanilla's designs and some of their ideas seem a bit outlandish for my taste.
FATW (and any sub-mod of subsequent TW games based on it that might one day hopefully become reality) is radically different and tries to follow the lore as closely as possible.

**Ngugi** · February 17, 2018, 05:39 AM

Not all have experience with FATW, so might help with some screen shots for people to form a picture of what the project would aim towards, both in visuals and overall setting and design?

**athanaric** · February 17, 2018, 05:54 AM

Good point. Uploading my own screenshots might prove difficult on account of my computer not working, but I'll see what I can do.
The faction guides by CountMRVHS are linked at the bottom of my first post in the guide thread; at least some of them (e.g. Dunland) should still have working pictures.
There's also the screenshot thread (the ones from ca. 2015 onwards are relevant, the rest less so); example:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post15399405

Edit: oh and here's a number of LP videos:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post15186165
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...on-Campaign-LP

**Jmonstra** · February 20, 2018, 12:53 AM

Would be very much in favor of this. FATW is an amazing mod.

**Arioria of mithlond** · February 20, 2018, 07:53 AM

I m already working on some modles for a fourth age mod I had in mind were gondor will look like this

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

rohan will look like this

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

and dale will look like this

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**athanaric** · February 20, 2018, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by Jmonstra

Would be very much in favor of this. FATW is an amazing mod.

Thanks for the heads-up

Arioria, good to know; if the FATW porting idea ever takes off, I shall endeavour to enlist your help.
The Dale design you have in mind looks quite different from FATW though, being based on late Medieval or Renaissance models, while FATW's Dale is more Medieval Scandinavian-like. However, the latter also has Dorwinion Halberdiers as a regional unit for Dale.

**Aexodus** · February 20, 2018, 04:49 PM

Some screens from my FATW Rohan campaign for you lads

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**♔atthias♔** · February 21, 2018, 03:54 AM

I would be up for it too I tried to play FATW but I cant stand the rome 1 graphics anymore

**Aexodus** · February 21, 2018, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by atthias

I would be up for it too I tried to play FATW but I cant stand the rome 1 graphics anymore

a n g e r y

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**paleologos** · February 21, 2018, 03:38 PM

TATW and it's mods make the coolest screenshots, or is it just me?

**alreadyded** · February 21, 2018, 05:09 PM

The 4th Age campaigns in PCP (which are based on info in the appendix to the books) take place right after the 3rd Age and into the early 4th. The RTW mod is based on the abandoned 'The New Shadow' idea from Tolkien that takes place long after if I remember right (I never played it) so they shouldn't be compared.

Edit; As for porting RTW stuff into M2TW, Gigantus has posted much info from porting a Three Kingdoms mod. I could upload a kick-ass fully animated base model for M2TW and you guys could just make units from that in literally a matter of minutes with no skill required (we are talking simple copy/paste then move slightly and that is it) instead of spending longer porting low quality stuff in.

Someone would have to take charge of this project and do most of the work though, this how mods get made and not just discussed. Even if you have a mod team one person will still be doing most of the work. KK used to complain quite often in PMs that people helping him usually made things harder and led to more work for him

. It made me laugh every time. But I clearly agree since I never wanted a mod team.

**athanaric** · February 24, 2018, 07:40 AM

Thanks a lot. If this ever works out, I/we will be sure to remember the offer

Indeed, FATW is set after the reign of Eldarion, Aragorn's son, so the starting date is quite different from PCP's.

**Redbad of the Frisians** · March 09, 2018, 05:01 PM

I am currently working on a Fourth Age mod myself with a buddy of mine, he works on balancing and i work on adding units and the coding for it. Basic outline is this:
We're using similar ideas as the FATW team is but we're still using a lot of units that were seen in Third Age, Third Age probably had too many plated units for the time period of Middle Earth so by now a lot of Dunedain factions should be using said plated units and such so you'll see a lot of familiar units as long as we get permissions, which i haven't gone about doing yet.
The time period will be set sometime after Eldarion takes the throne and is left to deal with the rebellion of the Shadow Cult in Northern Mordor, the Shadow Cult will also be present in Umbar, so both would be rebelling about the same time. Pelargir has broken itself off from Gondor calling for greater freedoms and Harondor is abandoned by Gondor to protect the homeland from Adunabar(the new Mordor), so Harondor takes advantage of the lack of Gondorian garrisons and also breaks off of Gondor. Nurnen was established and raised by Gondor becoming a loyal kingdom to the Dunedain, as Elessar granted them the right to govern themselves. Harad and Rhun both regain their strength after being beaten by the Reunited Kingdom and again start wars with them. Dorwinion is much like it was in the Third Age but Rhovanion was re-established with the Easterlings being beaten back. And i'm ranting lol, if anyone has ideas or anything let me know, we have a good base for where we would like to go already and i'll probably be starting a thread in the near future

**athanaric** · April 04, 2018, 12:17 PM

Cheers Redbad.

The mod idea from the OP, as well as other FATW content/sub-mods, is now being discussed here (thanks to Feanaro Curufinwe):

https://discord.gg/8hfrBFB

**♔atthias♔** · April 05, 2018, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by athanaric

Cheers Redbad.

The mod idea from the OP, as well as other FATW content/sub-mods, is now being discussed here (thanks to Feanaro Curufinwe):

https://discord.gg/8hfrBFB

I joined it under the same name as here