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Thread: Muskets & Rifles in Attila

  1. #1
    Malcolm's Avatar Miles
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    Default Muskets & Rifles in Attila

    Hi all! I have a question that may, or may not be stupid:

    Why are there no mods (that I can find) that incorporate muskets or rifles into Attila?

    I have noticed that the Medieval Kingdoms mod have incorporated some kind of early gun into the game (link to video below) but I haven't seen any attempts to bring in muskets. There would also have to be some attempt to sort a rank firing system as well.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbgEc10lMtI

    I'm just looking for a heads up before I go down the rabbit hole. Have people come across issues with regards to muskets or something that I haven't heard? Are the ones in the Medieval Kingdoms Mod simply using the crossbow animation?

    P.s. On a side note, has anyone managed to incorporate animations/models from Warhammer? Would be a fairly easy way to get muskets in if there is an existing process!

    Thanks
    Last edited by Malcolm; February 12, 2018 at 03:04 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Muskets & Rifles in Attila

    Alright, I'm the guy who take cares on projectiles of MKTW, continuing what warman and Ltd has made. BTW that youtube vid is our old version: the gun just fwooshes instead of banging, only smoking but not lighting, and bullets leaves craters on the ground.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm View Post
    Are the ones in the Medieval Kingdoms Mod simply using the crossbow animation?
    Basically yes, but not quite. Its a modified crossbow animation where the reference to the bendy model is replaced. I'll explain them in detail later.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm View Post
    Why are there no mods (that I can find) that incorporate muskets or rifles into Attila?
    Several possibilities:
    1. People think its not worth it because there's already ETW and NTW for gunpowder warfare in Europe and Middle East
    2. Attila is not really suitable for gunpowder-era warfare (ESPECIALLY the naval warfare, dumbed down to the stone age)
    3. People hates gunpowder warfare (screw them, gunpowder rocks)
    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm View Post
    P.s. On a side note, has anyone managed to incorporate animations/models from Warhammer? Would be a fairly easy way to get muskets in if there is an existing process!
    Models, yes. Animations, no. Reminder that warhammer skeletons have more bones. AFAIK Mr Jox's RMV2 Converter can export models from Warhammer. Personally, importing particle effects from Warhammer is something more viable, but I haven't figured exactly how (in my trials till now the imported vfx not showing for some reason)




    Alright, for gunpowder mod in Attila/R2, here's the aspects that need to be worked:


    ---POST BEING WRITTEN---


    Rigidmodels
    Disclaimer: I am not a modeller, so take my words only on the application of the model, not the making and rigging of the models itself. If you want to ask how to create and rig musket models, ask a modeller.

    Models-wise, its not different than any weighted mesh variantmodel like any other weapons, simpler than bows in fact, because it need no animated bendy model.

    Animation
    Animation is always a hard aspect to mod in most games, most modders opt to reuse and recycle already-available animations. This is also the case in MKTW: we simply reuse crossbow animations.

    To adapt crossbow animation into handgonne animation, we need:
    New edited animation meta (animations>rome2>human>battle>archer>firing and firing_from_wall)
    New animation fragments (animations>animation_fragments)
    New animation tables (animations>animation_tables)

    There's already a tutorial on this: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...m-animated-bow
    The principle is similar, its even simpler for handgonnes.
    Because we are repurposing crossbow animations, our handgonnes do not have real gun reloading animation, which Attila has nothing close. Note that sound effects are tied to the animation meta as well.

    Appearance and Particle Effects


    (sorry, I'll continue tomorrow)



    Sound Effects
    Aside of sound effects that are from the animations itself, sound effects are determined in the audio_projectiles tables. Before we continue, I sure you aware that audio modding is no longer possible. Because of that, we can only repurpose already-available sfx.

    (sorry, I'll continue tomorrow)

    Projectiles
    The key to musket projectile in Attila is only one: set the category into "musket". Yep, that's it. If you don't set it as musket, the unit would be able to arc the projectile like an arrow over walls; The rest just follows, only obvious musket characteristics and personal mod balancing choices. There are some more tricks for gun projectiles we use in MKTW, but those other things are not instrumental for making it a gun projectiles.


    (sorry, I'll continue tomorrow)
    Last edited by You_Guess_Who; February 15, 2018 at 07:30 PM.

  3. #3
    Malcolm's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Muskets & Rifles in Attila

    Quote Originally Posted by You_Guess_Who View Post
    Several possibilities:
    1. People think its not worth it because there's already ETW and NTW for gunpowder warfare in Europe and Middle East
    2. Attila is not really suitable for gunpowder-era warfare (ESPECIALLY the naval warfare, dumbed down to the stone age)
    3. People hates gunpowder warfare (screw them, gunpowder rocks)
    Thanks for the reply You_Guess_Who

    Basically I'm trying to decide whether to get into modding the newer games or switch to Shogun 2 (where the campaign map was moddable). At the moment I am into musket and rifle mods.

    From what you have said it sounds like it might be just as well going into modding Shogun 2.

  4. #4
    Commissar Caligula_'s Avatar The Ecstasy of Potatoes
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    Default Re: Muskets & Rifles in Attila

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm View Post
    At the moment I am into musket and rifle mods.

    From what you have said it sounds like it might be just as well going into modding Shogun 2.
    The Shogun 2 DLC "Fall of the Samurai" has rifles, cannons, Gatling guns and the whole works. I think it's the most "modern" Total War.



  5. #5
    Malcolm's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Muskets & Rifles in Attila

    Quote Originally Posted by Caligula View Post
    The Shogun 2 DLC "Fall of the Samurai" has rifles, cannons, Gatling guns and the whole works. I think it's the most "modern" Total War.
    I think I'm going to spend some time looking at editing the Shogun 2 campaign map. Looks tricky and time consuming but if the Attila games are not really suitable for gunpowder mods it makes more sense to do S2TW. Also the fact that it is so much more moddable than Attila.

    Ideally I could just make it a long term project, and make a map of Europe as a test run. I like the idea of making an open source campaign map for modders to use. The only issue I can forsee is the UI. How much of the UI is moddable?

    We can edit voices, music, the generals who appear in the corner. Can we edit the models that appear on maps, the building unit cards, battle maps that show up during sieges on the campaign? Not much point in making the new maps if the rest can't be well modded.

    EDIT: I've started a conversation in the S2TW section about this:

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...e-Campaign-Map
    Last edited by Malcolm; February 18, 2018 at 07:42 AM.

  6. #6
    Commissar Caligula_'s Avatar The Ecstasy of Potatoes
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    Default Re: Muskets & Rifles in Attila

    Quote Originally Posted by Malcolm View Post
    I think I'm going to spend some time looking at editing the Shogun 2 campaign map. Looks tricky and time consuming but if the Attila games are not really suitable for gunpowder mods it makes more sense to do S2TW. Also the fact that it is so much more moddable than Attila.

    Ideally I could just make it a long term project, and make a map of Europe as a test run. I like the idea of making an open source campaign map for modders to use. The only issue I can forsee is the UI. How much of the UI is moddable?

    We can edit voices, music, the generals who appear in the corner. Can we edit the models that appear on maps, the building unit cards, battle maps that show up during sieges on the campaign? Not much point in making the new maps if the rest can't be well modded.
    1 - izzi and Havie might be good modders to ask about the campaign map. I'm pretty sure Havie has done custom animations, custom campaign map and more.
    2 - Hardballer and DETrooper would be good people to ask about editing the UI, they've done it for Attila.
    3 - The models that appear on campaign maps? Yep. Ask the Medieval Kingdoms team for Attila or ArtStudio I think.
    4 - Building unit cards are easy, just simple UI
    5 - The Ancient Empires team for Attila has worked out how to change what custom battle map shows up for sieges.



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