what factions in Warhammer 3?

[Daruwind]

We got new blogpost about what teams are working on, fantasy pre-production team described that as:

No news for the time being from the Fantasy team. Pre-production continues in earnest so lots of discussions, ideas, and concepts flying around in that area of the studio – it’s absolute Chaos.

https://www.totalwar.com/blog/what-t...g-on-july-2018

[Steph]

What the Team are working one for October, about WH3 in pre preproduction:


"Hold tight and trust in Sigmar"


No one commented about it.
IMO:
1) Just a figure of style and means nothing. Unlikely with CA history to but some hint.
2) Game 3 is focused on Age of Sigmar... Quite unlikely...
3) This makes me think that I may have been worng about Game 3...


At first, I thought it would be focused on Chaos (as one race, but with mono god faction), + Ogre and Chaos Dwarves.
But if there's only this, it may be a bit boring, we need some order faction. So I was thinking about an expansion even further east, to include Cathay. With 3K released one year before, it could be a smart move from CA, to get more warhammer player from the Asian market, maybe reuse the assets from CA to reduce dev cost.


But now, with this hint....


What if CA decided NOT to rework the Empire with an upgrade tied to a Game 2 DLC, instead reworking Wood Elves, Beastmens, etc. because...


they plan to include an 'Empire v2" in Game 3 as a core faction?
They could have a map with the North of the Old World, + Badlands, and have as core faction: Chaos, Chaos Dwarves, Orge, and Empire + Kislev as pre order bonus.


For Empire, they could easily have 4 different LL from different elector count, and maybe have sime knightly orders.

Possible area covered by game 3 (lighten part of the big mortal empire on the left, rotated on the right, may be expanded even more east/south for Cathay?

[Daruwind]

The map cut is basically what we predicted on previous page, I very much agree with that.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post15556395

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Wh3 map

ME 2.0 addition

For now, no news is good news. The wheels are turning and pre-production carries on apace. We’d love to be able to share more with you soon but it’s going to be a while yet. Hold tight and trust in Sigmar.
https://www.totalwar.com/blog/what-t...n-october-2018
Not much more from us for now, we’re afraid. While we don’t have anything new we can tell you at this stage, rest assured we’re all hard at work making sure it’ll be worth the wait until we can.
https://www.totalwar.com/blog/what-t...augtember-2018
No news for the time being from the Fantasy team. Pre-production continues in earnest so lots of discussions, ideas, and concepts flying around in that area of the studio – it’s absolute Chaos.
https://www.totalwar.com/blog/what-t...g-on-july-2018
The Fantasy Team has begun pre-production for their next game, and it’s taking them to some dark, dark places. We fear they may never return – not with minds and souls intact, at least. We’ll update you with more details when it’s safe to approach them.
https://www.totalwar.com/blog/what-t...g-on-june-2018
Currently in early pre-production, it is dark and quiet in this team’s corner of the studio. Visitors do not dally long.
https://www.totalwar.com/blog/wttwo-03-18

Honestly, It could be just foreshadowing Chaos Deamons invasion. I cannot imagine WH3 without Chaos goal to burn Empire...Basically opposite to Chaos Invasion as we have it now. From Chaos perspective not Kislev,not Ogres or Chaos Dwarfs are goal, Empire is..

Rework of older faction is slow, they won´t catch before WH3 so we can easily see empire rework for the game three. We are expecting one more Lord pack DLC, maybe one free faction, maybe Wh3 preorder faction. That´s one to three reworks at the max while we have multiple LL in multiple old factions yet. Beastmen, Greenskins, Empire, Chaos technically even Dwarfs, Vampires (Grombrindal..)

But if CA tries to move into Age of Sigmar, that would require whole new campaign map of realms? Complete rework for all factions? Not sure they would do it in situation when they can easily continue with many more still missing factions...

[Abdülmecid I]

It's just a pun, replacing god with Sigmar. Teasers only work when the announcement date is close, so that the potential customers can get hyped and ready to pre-order. There is no chance that Warhammer III will be revealed before early March and Three Kingdoms, a fact which means that any teaser included in an October blog is totally pointless, because it will be forgotten in a matter of days. I understand that business policy adapts, depending on the circumstances, but the link has showed to us the general outlines of Warhammer III. Anything completely different to the leaked data is out of question, so we should expect an expansion mainly focused on Chaos, with one (or, in a very unlikely scenario, two) extra factions, with the main suspect being the bear-cavalry. If I remember correctly, Chaos armies are notoriously extravagant, so the variety of monsters will presumably satisfy the thirst of the fans for unique and visually remarkable content. In any case, Creative Assembly's marketing department and a legion of volunteers in the official fora have so far easily succeeded in justifying the most controversial decisions of the company, from the absence of naval battles to one-wall sieges, often by contradicting themselves (factions are fewer, cheaper and sold separately as DLCs, due to their plethora of models and animations, while the tiny number of animations is explained by the daunting quantity of diverse content), so I am confident that the criticism thrown at SEGA will be in tolerable levels.

[Steph]

I think we all more or less agree that WH3 will be Chaos focused. We one race and 4 factions, each with its own Gods, or mono Gods races, is debatable.
Chaos Dwarves and Ogres are almost sure (although may be as first DLC, a la Tomb King).


But to balance it, and make it more interesting that just Chaos vs Chaos, we need some "order" ennemy.


Initially, I was thinking that WH3 maps would be quite separated from Game 1 and 2 (same as Vortex with very few common part with Game 1). The common part could have been Kislev.
With this hypothesis, a map with only Badlandes would have been too limited, and so I was thinking the game would expand Eastward, to include Cathay and maybe Nippon and/or Ind. Main reason IMO was that with 3K, it could appeal to the Chinese market, and reuse assets to limit costs.


But now, I'm wondering if CA will not have more overlap to include Empire as the ennemy for Chaos...


So I can imagine two scenarios


Common part of both scenarios
- Jan/Feb 2019: LM and Sakven leader pack, with a small OW update. Maybe just Amber mechanism reworked for WE, and a free Lord (for Heart of the Jungle?)
- June/ July 2019 : Araby Campaign pack, and a more significant OW update. Maybe Bretonnia (because of Crusader placeholder), or Greenskin?
- end 2019 A third DLC campaign with TEB and colonies, but no fulll DoW.
- Maybe an extra smaller DLC with "forgotten islands", for exemple one Amazon LL + one Albion LL


Then Scenario 1: East, quite far, very limited overlap with OW
- Chaos race with 4 factions (one for each God)
- Chaos Dwarves
- Ogres
- Cathay
- Kislev as pre order.


DLC: Nippon, Ind, DoW as a Lord pack (expension of TEB with mercenary leaders, and Ogre mercenaries added). Not necessarily in this order.
In this scenario, Empire gets a small rework.


Or Scenario 2: West, with overlap with OW (Kislev, Eastern Empire):
- Chaos race with 4 factions (one for each God)
- Chaos Dwarves
- Ogres
- Empire V2, with new mechanism, new LL in the east, knighlty order to fight Chaos
- Kislev as pre order.


DLC: Maybe Cathay if map goes far enough.
Maybe Neferata if it goes south Enough. With a Greenskin rework at some point

[Steph]

More thoughts with some calculations...

First, some facts,

Map of the world below, where I highlighted some areas, and computed their surface.

Races at launch and DLC. Not counting lord packs which add factions but no actual race.
- Game 1= 4 core races, Empire and Dwarves ("order"), Vampire and Greenskins ("destruction"), Pre order Chaos ("destruction"), +2 months Beastmen ("destruction"), + 5 months Wood Elves ("order"), + 3 months Bretonnia ("order"), + 6 months Norsca ("destruction")
- Game 2 = 4 core races, Lizardmen and High Elves ("order"), Dark Elves and Skaven ("destruction"), +4 months Tomb Kings ("neutral"), +4 months Norsca fixed, + 4 months Vampire Coasts ("destruction")

Summary: Game 1 = 4 "order" races + 5 "destruction" races, total 9. Game 2 = 2 "order" races, 3+1 "destruction", 1 "neutral", total 7.





Now some analysis.

For Game 2

I suppose it is safe to assume that Game 3 will be released early 2020, since we have 3K in 2019, and usually CA doesn't release two big games the same years.

So we still have 14 months, and with an average of 4 months between 2 "races" pack, we could get 2 or 3 more race packs (not couting simple Lord packs).

So it's quite safe to imagine Araby, and Southern Realms/DoW. With one lord Tilea, one lord for Estalia, one for Border Princes, and one for new World Colonies.
A 3rd pack is more questionnable. Maybe we won't have any, maybe we could have a small pack. I imagine Amazon + Albion (1 or 2 lord each), in a "forgotten islands" pack. CA showed with Vampire Coast that they could be innovative and create such a pack "from scatch".

This would mean a total of 9 races (same as Game 1, even if one is shared), with 4 order and 5 destruction/neutral in each game. So quite consistent and balanced.


For Game 3

Map considerations

For Game 1, CA focused on the Old World. Area in blue on map above, size in pixels² = 60. Map is focused with many detailed provinces, which is not surprise given the importance of OW in the lore.
For Game 2, added Naggaroth, Lustria in Ulthuan. Area in red above, size = 350. and they also added the Southlands, in green. Size = 210. Total size = 560. 9 times the area of Game 1.
They did this with a map which is less detailed than the Ow, but still has plenty to do.

Some people are claiming that CA cannot add Cathay, because it's too far. But if they had the yellow area above, include Kisvlev and east of the Empire up to Cathay on the East, and going South up to Lahmia and North of Ind, Size is 170. Half the New World. Less than Southlands.
They could even add the magenta Area, including Nippon, Khuresh, and Ind fully. That's 180 more. The total would be 350, so same size as New World.

So I think in terms of map coverage and size, CA could easily fit the whole easterne part of the world, especially if they warp it a little to make the western area with Kislev/Empire more details, and the easterrn/south less detailed. They could also add only half the magenta area, to include Ind Nippon, but forget half of Khuresh and the Lost Isles.

Even for the "Mortal empire v2", CA manage to fit about 2 third of the New World, and half of Southlands. So that 220+100 = 320 for the size. Yellow area + half of magenta = 170 +90 = 260. Less than what CA added.

So I think technically speaking, a map expanding quite far East is actually more than possible.


Races considerations

Let's suppose that CA wants a similar balance to previous game, to cater for players who likes order races, as well as players who like destruction races, and a similar total of races. If they want game 3 to sell as well as the previous game for the same price, they have to put a similar content.

So we are looking at possibly 4-5 order races, 4-5 destruction and 1 neutral.

What are the possible candiates:
- Order: Cathay, Nippon, Empire, Kislev, and I think Ind also
- Destruction: Chaos Gods, Chaos Dwarves, ... Kurgan? Huns?
- Neutral : Ogre, Hobgobelins?

To have something balanced, we need order/races as core race at start.

I'm still thinking CA won't really update Empire with game 2, because they keep it for a major overhaul in game 3. But maybe making it a full core race won't be the best move, as it won't really be "new".


And the conclusion

Game 3 map will be something like this:


At launch, we'll have
- Cathay + Ogre as order / neutral race
- Chaos Gods (with 4 LL, one for each God) + Chaos Dwarves as destruction race
- Empire v2 as pre order bonus: it can interest people with ME, with Game 1 (if they retrofit), and I think it's better as pre order than as full race, since it's an upgrade and not a full new race.
- I can imagine some non playable Hung / kurgan in the Eastern Steppes to threaten Cathay (based on Norsca / Chaos units).
- And may be Ind/Nippon non playable factions based on Cathay units as placeholders.

Possible DLC
- First DLC = Kislev (order)
- Second DLC : Steppes Warrior ("destruction"), with new Kurgan / Hung units to complement the place holder units
- Third DLC : Nippon to replace placeholders
- 4th DLC: a Chaos lord packs, with new lords and more god specific unit
- 5th DLC Ind + Khuresh

That would give a total of 5 order races, and 3 chaos + 1 order.

And bonus DLC with CA loves for vampire... Lahmia with Neferata lord pack in the southwest corner of the map!

This would be the mega campaign map (still requires work to wrap it more and get rid of the big empty space on the North East

[Daruwind]

Very good analysis Steph!

But I would also take into consideration that at this very moment CA (Grace) comfirmed that only one more DLC - Lizardmen/Skaven Lord pack is in production with release date beginning 2019...before 3K. And also only one more FLC is missing - Lizardmen LL but the FLC array could in theory be large enough for 2 more hidden FLCs. And we don´t know whether the free faction ala Bretonnia for Wh2 will happen and what kind of pre-order bonus will be for Wh3. If similar to Norsca for Wh2/3 or only for game 3. And what will happen after Lizardmen/Skaven Lord pack up to release of Wh3, which will be probably between last quarter of 2019 till the last quarter 2020, I completely agree with you that it won´t be 2018. All these details can influence how far the CA is planning to go with the series...

Plus question is, how changed the datamined map. Is it still goal for Mortal Empires 2.0 or not?

I can see only two scenarios here:

1) Minimalistic

-only one more Wh2 DLC - Lizardmen/Skaven Lord pack
-only one more FLC LL , the last two will be like Bone Giant,Steps of Isha,Laboratory mode..
-ME 2.0 map is the leaked map with east small part
-Old faction overhaul will continue way up to game 3/ME 2.0

In this scenario we will be lucky to get Araby for Wh2 as pre-order faction for Wh3,

Dogs of War/Southern realms can be actually Wh3 faction/DLC with connection to Ogres, mercenaries (technically for ME2.0 they can add elements of Albion,Amazons,New World Colonies here) it would be another "order"/neutral faction

WH3 main campaign will feature Badlands and Mountains of Mourn but probably nothing more to the east. Faction will be probably Southern Realms/Dogs of War + Ogres + Chaos Dwarfs + one army for Chaos Deamons so they can be fully put on that leaked ME 2.0 campaign map. Preorder bonus might be another Chaos faction or Kislev as they can be on map or on ME 2.0 easily.

2) Anything bigger

-more DLCs (Skavens mising a lot clans, plus we are missing lot famous characters...probably for game 3? Malus Darkblade, Thanquol, Nefarata, Abhorash, Naggash..especially he could be opponent to Chaos in game 3 with Empire?? )
-more FLCs
-free faction + Wh3 pre-order faction (Southern Realms/Dog of War (+elements of Amazons,Albion) + Araby)

-ME 2.0 can/will have expanded map probably to the east so yeah Cathay, Ind, Nippon, Hungs..

but i´m not sure how well we can predict in this scenario. There are no hard borders then...only the world itself and CA´s imagination

[lolIsuck]

Plus question is, how changed the datamined map. Is it still goal for Mortal Empires 2.0 or not?

Considering the relatively small size of the eastern expansion of the datamined map and the fact that that area is lore-wise far emptier than other areas of the map I find it unlikely unless they heavily compress that area.

I can see only two scenarios here:

1) Minimalistic

-only one more Wh2 DLC - Lizardmen/Skaven Lord pack
-only one more FLC LL , the last two will be like Bone Giant,Steps of Isha,Laboratory mode..
-ME 2.0 map is the leaked map with east small part
-Old faction overhaul will continue way up to game 3/ME 2.0

In this scenario we will be lucky to get Araby for Wh2 as pre-order faction for Wh3,

Dogs of War/Southern realms can be actually Wh3 faction/DLC with connection to Ogres, mercenaries (technically for ME2.0 they can add elements of Albion,Amazons,New World Colonies here) it would be another "order"/neutral faction

WH3 main campaign will feature Badlands and Mountains of Mourn but probably nothing more to the east. Faction will be probably Southern Realms/Dogs of War + Ogres + Chaos Dwarfs + one army for Chaos Deamons so they can be fully put on that leaked ME 2.0 campaign map. Preorder bonus might be another Chaos faction or Kislev as they can be on map or on ME 2.0 easily.

2) Anything bigger

-more DLCs (Skavens mising a lot clans, plus we are missing lot famous characters...probably for game 3? Malus Darkblade, Thanquol, Nefarata, Abhorash, Naggash..especially he could be opponent to Chaos in game 3 with Empire?? )
-more FLCs
-free faction + Wh3 pre-order faction (Southern Realms/Dog of War (+elements of Amazons,Albion) + Araby)

-ME 2.0 can/will have expanded map probably to the east so yeah Cathay, Ind, Nippon, Hungs..

but i´m not sure how well we can predict in this scenario. There are no hard borders then...only the world itself and CA´s imagination

It's hard to believe that the Lizardmen vs. Skaven pack is the last DLC for WHII. Reddit had a mini-meltdown about the wait-time for this DLC, imagine what having to wait for a whole year whould do. Southern Realms have to be added at some point, and although it'd suck I can see them being given the Norsca treatment. In that case Araby will probably be a race pack for WHII. If the Southern Realms/DOW do come as a regular DLC for WHII I think the odds of Araby appearing are slightly smaller. Amazons and Albion are always going to be a very very big longshot.

[Steph]

Especially if Game 3 is not before 2020, and the pack is released early 2019. I don't imagine CA spending one year without d DLC. They had an average if 4 months between two DLC so far.

[Daruwind]

Year is really too long without any content. However, if we look at Wh1 last DLCs and free updates:

(Chaos + Wh1 May 2015, Beastmen July, Grim/Grave September, Kings/Warlords October)
the last DLC was WE - December 8, 2016
then we got free Bretonnia - February 2017
and then Norsca + Foundation Update - August 2017

but the first DLCs (Grim/Grave, Kings/Warlords, WE, Beastmen) were released pretty quickly so if they slow down and smooth the difference between the WE/Bretonnia and Norsca, to like 4 months between a piece...we can get:

Skaven/Lizardmen Lord pack - February/March 2019
Free update - June/July 2019
Pre-order around October/November 2019
Release date for Wh3 Spring 2020?

that´s the minimalistic way. I went back and checked CA_Grace´s comments on reddit. She was talking only about campaign pack and lord pack for early 2019. SteamDB is showing only one entry. I hope and would like more content, just don´t see evidence right now..

I would love to see Araby (as Norsca Wh3 preoder), Southern Realsm/Dogs of War/New World Colonies as free update and possible Malus Darkblade/Thanquol/Neferata/Abhorash/Nagash legendary pack or Skaven one (we are getting one more LL while missing still 3 of 4 Great Clans: Ikit Claw - Skryre, Deathmaster Snikch - Eshin, Trot the Unclean + Skweel Gnawtooth - Moulder...not counting Thanquol...)

EDIT: I´m really looking forward to Skavens, as the Lord pack will probably come with some Undercity mechanics very similar to Vampire Coast - Pirate Cove "second settlement".

[Daruwind]

I went back and recompile all current info and possible estimation at this point for game 2 at least.

1)We know, that in early 2019 we will get one more lord pack - Skaven vs Lizardmen, plus second Lizardmen FLC LL

I would use lower two maps for Vortex and ME, they are not yet updated for Vampire Coast but as we are brainstorming other parts here, it is probably not big problem. I use them primary because there are also Skaven clans.
For now focus on Skavens and Lizardmen only in terms of campaign maps and their starting locations

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Vortex

ME

Skavens:
So in case of Skavens we have three missing Great clans - Skryre, Moulder and Eshin and possibly Grey Seer Thanquol as wild card. That´s five notable characters for just one LL spot in that DLC. We can probably say that Thanquol is in the same boat as Malus Darkblade or even Neferata and Abhorash or Naggash and that we might see those characters later if ever. So we are still left with four characters and three subfaction... Natural obvious choice would be Rat vs Snake themed Lord pack DLC with Sotek and opposing Skavens. Problem is also that Sotek would primary have Pestilence as opponent due to the lore, not other clans...So honestly I cannot conclude which clan is more likely. Honestly I can imagine enough material for Lord Pack and then for additional faction DLC with two LLs or even minicampaign just for Skavens..

If we look where are starting all three current LLs:
Tretch Craventail is in both campaign based in Naggaroth
Queek Headtaker is in Vortex based in very south part of Southland while in ME he is based in Badlands
Lord Skrolk is based in both campaign based in South Lustria

from that we can say that
Vortex - no skaven in Ulthuan and in northern Southlands but we would probably not expect any there. Plus there is not many skaven presence in between Naggaroth/Lustria. If I have to pick one spot for another Skaven faction it would be around northern part of Lustria
ME - No skaven in Ulthuan, Old World plus Plus there is not many skaven presence in between Naggaroth/Lustria. If I have to pick a spot for skaven faction, it would be probably Old World either Skavenblight or Hell Pit as natural places.

Skryre - LL Ikit Claw:
+ Vortex map location (great opponent for Rat/Snake DLC starting in vicinity while far enough from Pestilence)
+ ME map location - Skavenblight (so far no starting skaven faction in Old World)
+ lot missing units like Ratling Gun, Warpolock Jezzails

Moulder - LL throt the Unclean or Skweel the Gnawtooth:
- Vortex map location just next to Squek Headtaker (they are too close both in south of Southlands..)
+ ME map location - Hell Pit (so far no starting skaven faction in Old World)
+ lot possible units like various Armored Rat Ogres, Mutants, Burrowing Behemonth, Chimaerat

Eshin - LL Deathmaster Snikch:
- Vortex map location (closer to Pestilence)
- ME map location (closer to Pestilence)
- almost all units are already in game

(starting location can change easily, new regions can be added but i have to start somewhere...just remember some factions made space for Vapire Coast or even Tomb Kings upon arrival )

Lizardmen:
They are missing a few notable characters and have two empty LLs. ingame slots.
If we look where are starting Lizardmen LLs:
Mazdamundi is in both campaign starting in Hexoatl
While Krog-Gar is starting in Southlands in both cases

Lord Kroak could be potential one LL with some kind of ghostly theme similar to Belegar, maybe collecting / upgrading him as Relic Priest, his direct casting might be severely limited to just one spell like for Luthor Harkon but might have powerful auras effects.
He is connected with Itza, which is available in both campaigns and has 10 slots.

Tehenhauin would be probably second pick as Sotek allows a lot potential. His usual starting position should be Chaqua but that is way close to the Itza.

There are others notable possible characters but majority of them is just variation of Saurus, Skinks.
(- Gor-Rok - White Lizard Saurus)
(- Chakax - Temple Guard Saurus)
(- Oxyotl - Skink Hunter)
- Tetto´eko - Skink Chief Astronomer
(- Tiktaq´to - Skink Terradon Rider)
- Nikai - Ancient Kroxigor

2) The last update on FLC chart was
https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/8zm3rm/warhammer_ii_updated_flc_array/

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

We know for sure only that Lizardmen FLC LL is coming with next Lord pack, but the size of the chart allows two more hidden FLCs to be there. Comparing with Wh1 DLC/FLC chart
https://totalwarwarhammer.gamepedia....adable_Content
We can probably expect more units, maps or perhaps heroes. Probably cannot get more info here.

3) Other possible content

-Wh3 preorder bonus faction. We can look at Norsca, which is Wh2 preorder faction. We can assume that similar approach might be used for Wh3. Norsca is curiously playable in Wh1 campaign and in ME but not in Vortex. Which means with similar approach that Wh3 preorder faction might be as well playable in Wh2 and in ME/ME2.0 campaigns but not in Wh3 main campaign. If the Wh3 main campaign is really set in the east, such faction could be easily Araby. Great advantage of Araby is similar scope to Norsca and easy possibility to field two LLs and especially the land is directly on both Vortex and Mortal Empire campaign map in Wh2.

-Southern Realms, Dogs of Wars (including possible elements of Araby, Albion, Amazons, Ogres, New World Colonies). There are some hints like WE technologies, Norsca, Miragliano being only major capitol with 10 building slots for completely unplayable faction.
There are two parts to this faction. The main lands Estalia/Tilea/Border Princes are not available in Vortex campaign, only in ME. In Vortex there is only New World Colonies so starting location without Sartosa are little problem. It would suggest more likely focus on Dogs of War/mercenary aspect as these factions can then start in Lustria,Southlands..

Albion, Amazons, Araby can be easily part with some variation on mosnter hunts/mercenary missions which will unlock special RoR. Araby can be part of this with Al Muktar LL and few units.

-High Elves are missing some good characters as well. Namely Prince Imrik and Eltharion. Then some Wh1 factions LL / characters. But these would be added if at all with faction update as CA will progress further. Kislev and similar factions are probably off limits as they cannot be placed upon Vortex campaign map.

4)Wh1 Old World races update:
First game has 4 core races (Empire, Dwarfs, Greenskins, Vampires), boosted via two Lord Packs, 2 additional Campaign packs (Beastmen and Wood Elves) and I would say 3 Faction Packs (Wh1 preorder - Chaos Warriors, Free - Bretonnia, Wh2 preorder - Norsca)

Dwarfs: quite complete, with recent update, low chance for next update -
-Thorgrim Grudgebearer - core
-Ungrim Ironfist - core - got uniqe starting position with update
-Belegar Ironhammer - DLC - unique starting position
-Grombrindal the White Dwarf - FLC missing uniqe starting position while his counterpart Wurrzag has it, paired with Thorgrim

Vampires: quite complete, with recent update, low chance for next update -
-Mannfred von Carstein - core
-Helman Gorst - DLC - missing his unique starting position, paired with Mannfred
-Vlad von Carstein - FLC - got uniqe starting position
-Isabella von Carstein - FLC - got uniqe starting position, paired with Vlad
-Heinrich Kemmler - core - got uniqe starting position with update
(missing some famous names like Abhorash, Neferata..)

Empire: very weak mechanics, low LL count, single starting location, prime candidate for next update ++++ (but probably will be not as Empire requires extensive rework and probably will be in Wh3)
-Karl Franz - core
-Balthasar Gel - core - paired with Karl
-Volkmar the Grim - DLC - paired with Karl

Greenskins: weak mechanics, prime candidate for next update +++
-Grimgor Ironhide - core
-Azhag the Slaughterer - core, paired with Grimgor (candidate for next update)
-Wurrzag Da Great Green Prophet - FLC - got uniqe starting position
-Skarsnik - DLC - unique starting position

Beastmen: weak mechanics, missing units, prime candidate for next update +++
-Khazrak the One-Eye - DLC - got uniqe starting position
-Malagor the Dark Omen - DLC - got uniqe starting position
-Morghur the Shadowgave - DLC - got uniqe starting position

Wood Elves: CA_Mich said he is not happy with current Amber mechanics, plus there were rumors about possible Ariel LL being added, faction probably need mild update ++
-Orion - DLC - got uniqe starting position
-Durthu - DLC - got uniqe starting position

Warriors of Chaos: they are special due to their End game mechanics, low chance for update but they need some update ++ (seems they will probably get some update alongside Deamons of Chaos in Wh3)
-Archaon the Everchosen - DLC - paired with Archeon
-Kholek Suneater - DLC - paired with Archeon
-Sigvald the Magnificent - DLC - paired with Archeon

Bretonnia: they need probably just small lift up, +
-Alberic de Bordeleaux - FLC - got uniqe starting position
-Fay Enchantress - FLC - got uniqe starting position
-King Louen Leoncoeur - FLC - got uniqe starting position

Norsca: feels pretty complete, the last DLC, well flshed out in comparison so probably very low chance for any update soon -
-Wulfrik the Wanderer - DLC - got unique starting positions
-Throgg - DLC - got unique starting positions
status: faction complete, probably no future update needed

tl dr; I bet the Greenskins are the next for update possibly Beastmen. But for two times in row they updated second LL from core game. So Azhag and Balthasar could be next by this logic..

[The Wandering Storyteller]

Look if game 3 is just chaos only and I am forced to buy this game in order to play both WH1 + 2 it will be boring.

I don't want chaos - too much of it.

Bring on the exotic HUMAN FACTIONS. Araby, Cathay, Nippon, Ind.

Plus when 3 Kingdoms is being developed, it wouldn't be so hard to imagine if there's already a team desiging Cathay at this moment.

Steph and Daruwind, what makes you so sure that these four factions I posted can come? In terms of possible speculation, CA are very hard marketers. They don't reveal anything. What's the gurantee that we'll see Araby or any of these factions in a DLC for W3? Everyone was expecting Araby to be the next DLC instead CA chose some more useless Vampire Counts. I mean if you wanted pirates you had Sartosia, that's real and you could have a pirate theme.

I want these factions to come, but so far CA just seem to be 'ignoring the really good minor factions.'

[Steph]

For Araby: they are on both the Vortex and the ME map. The map was recently expended to add two settlements in the Southlands for ME. There's the "magic carpet" entry in the steam db.
There are many places in Southlands which are just placeholders with Bretonnia cruasers. So they could be replaced by something else, same as TK replaced the Strigoi for exemple.

So Araby can fit. Then, we had at start two order races (HE and Lizardmen), and 2 destrucitions factions (DE and Skaven). With the DLC, we got Norsca (ok, pre order, but still), Vampirates and TK. So 3 DLC with non order factions.

Seems logical we at last get a new one for order to rebalance a little.

Since Game 3 is likely to be 2020 (so 2019 can be focused on 3K), we still have one more year of possible DLC for Game 2. With the time span between DLC in the past, it means 2, maybe 3 (less likely) big DLC.

It could be Araby, or Southern Realms / DoW. I think we'll get both before game 3. But since Vortex map doesn't have much spots for the Southern Realms, I think Araby is more likely.

Then for Game 3, as I said above Ca needs to add some "order" faction to balance Chaos. They cannot have only Chaos Gods + Chaos Dwarves, I think it would be a marketing suicide.

With the hype train of 3K on the rails, I think it would be smart to aim the Asian market, and so Cathay can be a very good choice. They can also reuse some assets from 3K to reduce the cost, and if you see my map above, it's not so far from the current map.

If Cathay is added, CA needs to add the Ogre Kingdoms which you need to cross to go from Darklands to Cathay.

So with Ogres + Cathay + Chaos Gods +Chaos Dwarves, we have the 4 starting races.

I think these factions are very likely.

About Nippon and Ind: it would require expending the map further east. Although I think it's possible, maybe it's going a little too far. Nippon could bring a kind of 'Shogun nostalgia", but for Ind, it's a "from scratch" race.

CA could make something interesting (including Tigermen for exemple). But I think Nippon and Ind are much less likely than Cathay.

One last thing: if they add Cathay, they'd have to include their most iconic element; The Great Bastion. And if they don't want it to be meaningless, they need to include some Steppes north of east, and with Hung / Kurgan threat. At least as non playable factions using Norsca units as placeholder.

[lolIsuck]

Ogre Kingdoms are a certainty, as are the Chaos Dwarfs and Chaos Daemons as these three are the only main races with official armybooks left. The two most likely Order factions are a reworked Kislev and Cathay, the former needs a rework and is generally the first line in a Chaos invasion and the latter is the largest of the eastern nations. It's also got the most lore of the three and is the easiest to fit into a map geographically. Ind and Nippon are longshots in my opinion but CA could very well say "Why not?" as they'd otherwise be the only lands not covered by any of the three games. An argument against them, apart from the usual "there is no lore" one, is that if they did include them it'd take some shine away from the Empire and other big Warhammer factions and focus largely on the lore-light East.

[Daruwind]

It really depends how CA is planning the content. However even in minimalistic way we will probably see Southern Realms/Dogs of War, Araby, Kislev and rework for Empire either for game 2 or game 3. Even if we are not getting behind Mountains of Mourns (Ogre Kingdoms)

But if we are, possibilities are hight to see what Steph described.

If you add litle more to the southwest, we will get in whole Empire and Souther Realms even for such campaign map.

And if we will see Araby and Southern Realms/Dogs of War in Wh2, they can still go very east....Steph very nicely covered what I said with picture on previous page

Just look at current games. They have various factions,races. Nothing boring like 4x chaos faction. Plus there are already big signs they already steered away from original dataleak info. Norsca, Vampire Coast, Skavens not being DLC faction, No more mini campaigns...

We will see plenty factions, don´t worry. Araby, Kislev, big overhaul for Empire, Souther Realms/Dogs of Wars. We will probalby see all those even if there is no Cathay. We won´t see Wh3 for year + but question is, if CA is planning content or there will be big quiet time period before. Remember Norsca. https://totalwarwarhammer.gamepedia....adable_Content After WE DLC was December 2016, Bretonnia free update in Feb 2017 and then nothing till August 2017 with Norsca and Foundation Update.

Plus I think the Chaos Deamon armies won´t be 4 separated factions but probably one with 4 (or more) LLs. Skavens are also very distinctive clans, but share units. Deamons are more extreme but still they are all Deamons...4 Chaos gods just sounds like faction with for 4 LLs.. :-)

[Brynjar02]

Game 4, Cathay makes so much sense, the Order race has to be something completely new.


They could make 2 very fine Expansion packs to end game 2, and tie alot of the loose ends;

Lizards vs Kislev

Skaven vs (new) Empire, we have yet to see this ultimate showdown!

[The Wandering Storyteller]

Great answers Steph and Daruwind. As someone said on the forums - we will not know what is in game 3. CA haven't given any indication apart from Grace allowing us to discuss the possible options of Cathay. Many want the same factions again in game 3 but that's more of the same.

And I would remind that there WAS plenty of OPPOSITION to Cathay, Nippon and Ind in the forums. Many said it wouldn't come at all. Now they're saying no it can't fit in.

I would use the Gandhi quote in this. They will come.

Cathay has to come. Either way, Nippon is easy - just use Shogun 2 assets.

For Ind, use the Maratha assets from Empire.

I can only hope.

[Steph]

Empire assets are probably useless. Too different from current models. It maybe faster to redo them from scratch.

But I agree CA could use assets from Shogun and 3K for Nippon / Cathay. For Ind, I think looking at some stuff from Rome (like war Elephant) may be more interesting

[Daruwind]

After Norsca and especially Vampire Coast, anything is possible. However having Ind, Cathay, Nippon in one game means a lot CA´s own content. Wh1/2 were predominantly based upon already existing content from GW.

[Steph]

Well, I think they could start with only Cathay as a new faction. And use Cathay units as placeholders for Nippon/Ind factions. And Norsca/Chaos units as placeholder for Hung/Kurgan (to put ennemy north of Cathay, threatening the Great Bastion). And maybe later, if the game sells well, replace these placeholder units with new ones.

That wouldn't be much weirder than having Empire units used for Tilea and Estalia