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Thread: what factions in Warhammer 3?

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    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default what factions in Warhammer 3?

    There are a few discussions on Steam about it, but not much here.

    With the announcement about 3 Kingdoms, I'm wondering if CA would go the "easy" way, and reuse assets for this coming game to introduce Nippon and Cathay as two new factions, relatively easy/cheaper to do.

  2. #2
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: what factions in Warhammer 3?

    Probably not. Firstly, these eastern factions have very low volume of lore, units are little strange like kunfu monkeys....shortly put it. They are not so very well refined over multiple editions as the western factions.

    As a second problem, there is a pretty large chunk of land already in Mortal Empire under fog of war. That is extending roughly to the Mountains of Mourn. And while WH3 will feature new campaign. The Mortal Empires 2.0 must also feature all the new races,factions in similar fashion as ME and Vortex campaigns. So... for featuring all new eastern factions this chunk of land for WH3 is pretty small actually. Like only adding Chaos Dwarves and Ogres. With possible 4 chaos factions and Kislev as good one im not sure there is enough room for other main factions....Expanding to the east will need Cathay, Nippon,Ind

    The map would need to looks like this:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/co...inal_campaign/


    And this is actual dataleaked map which nicely correspond with current ME map.
    http://totalwars.ru/index.php/total-...ack-plans.html


    Current TK/Trentch ME map:


    If WH3 is centered around Chaos Invasion / 4 factions...virtually adding just Chaos Dwarves and Ogres and enhancing old factions like Empire + expanding Kislev. Than the map make perfect sense. Having Ind,Nippon,Cathay will require at least part of that territory...just look at Lustria + Southlands. They are badly cut in ME yet still there at least partially.

    Of course this is only about ME/ME 2.0 campaign map. So the WH3 main campaign could be anything. Still it makes sense to believe CA won´t do faction just for one campaign. It is not economical..
    Last edited by Daruwind; February 08, 2018 at 02:34 PM.
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    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: what factions in Warhammer 3?

    Yes, but the Vortex map is a different map, with all the new world. Mortal empire is just a part of it.
    I'm not sure that if for WH1 the map already included all the parts that was made playable in ME.
    If not, it means they expanded it. So they could also expand it again with WH3 to go further east.

    Speaking about economical: if they already have animation/texture for China (coming game) and Japan (Shogun), maybe it will be actually cheaper to convert them for Cathay/Nippon?

    And there are some materials available (Nippon, Cathay). Although I'm not sure how official they are considered.

    There is also another consideration: faction diversity to interest new players.
    If we look at WH1, it was released with Empire, Dwarf, Greenskins, Vampires, so 4 factions, each quite different from each other. Let it be 5 if we count Chaos that was release very soon after.
    Then later were added Beastmen, Wood Elf, Bretonnia and Norsca. Again factions with different style and gameplay. I do n't count the "variations" such Clan Angrund.

    Now, with WH2, we had the Dark Elves, High Elves, Skaven and Lizardmen. Again 4 factions, with a 5th soon after (Tomb King), and again very different from each other.

    We could imagine a few factionDLC in this context. Updated Norsca is already planned, maybe we could have a few others in this area (Araby? Amazon?). You may say they are not detailed in Lore, but same reference as above provides some reference, and CA got the green light to make units not currently described in details in Lore.
    And maybe they'll make a few DLC without real new factions, but just variation with new lord and a few units (Avelorn with Alarielle and sisters for example)


    Then, we'll have WH3. I don't think CA would just add Chaos as different factions. Even if they are different, they would still not look as varied as what was done for the WH 1 and 2. This could appeal as an expansion for the "Mega Great Campaign", but maybe not enough to warrant a full price independent game.


    So I'd rather see Cathay/ Nippon / Chaos / Ogre / Chaos Dwarves (may be only 4 of them at first, and the 5th later if they remain consistant), and with maybe later as DLC Ind or real Kislev. Maybe they won't include Nippon because it's too far, but make an "eastern only" map including Cathay, and with little overlap with the current available map in ME (I mean, the part not in the FOW). If we use WH2 as a reference, the vortex map overlaps very little with WH1, and the ME map includes WH1 + a part of WH2. So we could imagine WH3 mostly eas of what we have, including full Cathay, and then a mega campaign maps extended eastward, to include only the western part of Cathay (same as what they did with Lustria for example).

    And later they could do a WH4 with the whole world and 15 minutes between turns


    If they do several Chaos, I'd see them more as different Lords for a generic Chaos faction.
    Last edited by Steph; February 09, 2018 at 02:17 AM.

  4. #4
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: what factions in Warhammer 3?

    Yes, ME and Vortex are different maps but ultimately they cover similar areas. Vortex is missing Old World while expanding more Lustria, Naggarond and Southlands. Important thing is, all Vortex factions/races/LLs can be shuffled onto ME map. So this principle will probably work for WH3 + ME2.0 as well. And not all LLs are reshuffled. Like some Tomb Kings, some High Elves...

    Now the question is, IF the current ME map is also base for ME2.0 We don´t know, I don´t know but considering the dataleaked info, it was quite accurate so far so it is therefore a good bet. But CA can of course expand the map and completely re-do it...

    You are absolutely right about faction diversity yet they probably cannot utilize a lot of animations due to monsters and such things.

    There is still question about new factions for WH2. WH1 had 9 (4 core + 2xDLC + preorder WH1/WH2 + Free one), WH2 has so far 5. My bet would be another DLC race and free one or preorder for WH3. So overall two more races at least as minimum. Again, looking at both ME and Vortex map can tell us which faction could be easily added. New LLs for WH2 core factions like Alarielle are nothing special....we will get three more FLC LLs and twice faction expanding DLC HE/DE and Lizardmen/Skaven. So we are looking for at least 7 new LLs and probably some special ones as was Grombrindal on top of that. Then real new factions would be like Araby. Which is obvious hit but sizewise/lorewise it is like Norsca and Kislev. So definitely due to Norsca we can expect Araby and Kislev as doable faction. Then there are small hints for Estalia/Tilea. Con factor is, these are in ME not in Vortex campaign but they have both close ties to things like New World Colonies, Dogs of War, mercenaries....this could be linked to Rogue Armies, Horde style armies, featuring wide variety of units even like these Amazons, some from Albion even maybe Ogre unit or so. Definitely would fill their RoR quite easily. These are almost only two possible options for WH2 as all other factions are more likely splitner factions from their parent one. Vampire coast are vampire/pirates. Nefferata for ME Lahmia. Sartosa with Pirates, Albion is more likely settings than fuel size faction, Karak Zorn is in way to much crowded Southlands....

    For WH3 Kislev is like nice choice. It is like Araby or Norsca. Easily expandable and doable faction with a lots of fans. Ogre Kingdoms and Chaos Dwarves are also safely in as these two have army books. Leaving Chaos with possible 4 factions. Well it sounds little boring thing but then we have no idea how it should work...

    Only problem is with size od end turns. If they added another 200 settlements, another almost 100 of factions well, that will be slow..
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    Default Re: what factions in Warhammer 3?

    It's an interesting subject because, as little as I know about Warhammer and its lore, there seem to be mostly evil/Chaos factions left and some improbable choices like Cathay/Ind/Nippon. They can't possibly release a game with Chaos Dwarves, Ogres and 2 other chaos factions as that just wouldn't sell or even get rated very highly as they'd all function in a similar way or at least have similar goals. Kislev is a good guess but if it's kept a bit balanced there should be at least one more Order faction, preferably one a bit different than we've had thus far.

  6. #6

    Default Re: what factions in Warhammer 3?

    The initial statement from CA was that TWWIII would have four starting factions, one for each of the gods of chaos. But they have indicated that this is out-of-date, and they have more recently stated that they want to include every army in the game that has a Games Workshop army book. Given that every faction which has been included up to now has an army book in most of the editions of the tabletop game, I would guess that we will never see any official factions introduced which do not have completely fleshed out source material in at least one of the editions of the the original RPG.

    So knowing which factions are left, my guess is that it will be Chaos Dwarves, Chaos Ogres and Demons of Chaos, all of which have their own army books.

    Then there will probably be a "wildcard" faction; Kislev seems likely to me as they have an army book in at least one of the later editions of Warhammer. And I suppose they will want to include at least one "good" faction.

    Although people keep mentioning them, Nippon and Cathay seem unlikely because they do not have army books, and CA would have to basically make up a lot of their lore and roster. I don't think they are going to add factions w/o army books for this reason. There's not really enough source material in the original game for a complete faction for either of these. Additionally, neither of these factions really fits in with the stated theme of game three which is the Chaos Wastes / North.

    Dogs of War is another faction that we could see as they also have a complete roster/book in a few of the editions, but I don't know if they fit geographically.

    That said....nobody really knows! It is all just speculation at this point, and CA has not really stated which factions will be in the last game.

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    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: what factions in Warhammer 3?

    Nippon, Cathay have army books, although not official.

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    Default Re: what factions in Warhammer 3?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steph View Post
    Nippon, Cathay have army books, although not official.
    Of course, there are many additional armies included in unofficial source material which are incomplete/unplayable factions in the official game editions.

    But I am almost certain CA is not going to use unofficial material as the basis for factions in the game. They have licensed all the official content (maybe just 8th edition?) so that it can be used in the game. By contrast, the copyright and usage of unofficial material might not be clear, even if there is ostensibly some open license. I think they would not want to have to worry about getting sued by contributors to this material, essentially!

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    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: what factions in Warhammer 3?

    Okey, I must admit that after some thinking having game centered around eastern part of world could work. There this old idea that all chaos invasions and so are heading into Empire to kick Karel Franz..and steam rolling Kislev in process Problem or big obstacle are Choas Dwarfs and Ogres / Mountains of Mourn as these basically separete West (Old World) and East. Old World has little info about these eastern factions and vice versa. Ye, we have Elves, Skavens....both groups are keeping info for themselves for different reason ie. paranoid vs arogant pricks....So I can basically imagine campaign for game 3 in similar way to Vortex campaign. In Vortex Skaven did a crazy which started HE/DE/Lizardmen to play with Vortex. What about some new event in far East...Which will force Chaos to try to invade there, Hungs, Kurgans,...big invasion. Only problem with this setup are Chaos Dwarfs, Ogres and Kislev will be like western most border of campaign map. It is not problem for ME2.0..Or in case CA shuffle Ogres, Dwarfs into playable and not DLC factions...While having DLC as Nippon. Imagine having core factions as Chaos, Ogres, Cathay, Ind with Kislev, Nippon and Chaos Dwarfs being DLC...

    Last edited by Daruwind; February 20, 2018 at 05:11 PM.
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    lolIsuck's Avatar WE HAVE NO CAKE!
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    Default Re: what factions in Warhammer 3?

    Quote Originally Posted by jahjeremy View Post
    So knowing which factions are left, my guess is that it will be Chaos Dwarves, Chaos Ogres and Demons of Chaos, all of which have their own army books.
    But that'd be a terrible strategy. People who are not interested in playing a Chaos faction would have little incentive to buy that game then. It needs more variation than just various flavours of Chaos.

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    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: what factions in Warhammer 3?

    Quote Originally Posted by lolIsuck View Post
    But that'd be a terrible strategy. People who are not interested in playing a Chaos faction would have little incentive to buy that game then. It needs more variation than just various flavours of Chaos.
    This is probably and sadly reason why we won´t see 4 chaos demon armies :/

    Problem is mostly with "good" faction. Kislev is more like Araby,Norsca...doesnt have 8th edition army book. Middenheim might work as technically part of Empire....but that is also more likely WH3 update for Empire, not independent and main faction. So they would pick up at least one from Ind,Nippon,Cathay.... Cathay would be probably good bet. Nippon is simply even more close to foreigners. And Ind is divived among many rulers and thousands god..
    Last edited by Daruwind; February 21, 2018 at 03:58 PM.
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    Default Re: what factions in Warhammer 3?

    I think we could have the 4 chaos demon armies... as different LL for the same race. Possibly with only a few at start, and more later as DLC or FLC

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    Default Re: what factions in Warhammer 3?

    For those unfamiliar with him, ItalianSpartacus did nice video about Darklands and factions there:


    Plus he was using info and maps from another official forum thread : https://forums.totalwar.com/discussi...ist-of-content A lot good discussion there, especially from @LordSolarMach:

    I started out thinking:

    Pre-order: Kislev
    Core: Khorne, Nurgle, Chaos Dwarfs, Ogre Kingdoms
    DLC: Tzeentch, Slaanesh, Cathay

    ...but have changed around to:

    Pre-order: Chaos Divided Slaanesh
    Core: Kislev, Daemons Undivided, Chaos Dwarfs, Ogre Kingdoms
    DLC: Chaos Divided Khorne, Nurgle, Tzeentch

    This would involve a tilted map along these lines:
    Wh3 map

    ME 2.0 addition

    Slaanesh would fit into the Vortex well, with N'Kari and Dechala The Denied One both tying in to the Dark Elves and High Elves. They'd then reappear in the Chaos Wastes in game three, while in Mortal Empires one would go to the wastes, with the latter staying in Naggaroth.

    Kislev would start with Tsar Boris Bokha off in the farside colonies of the Kislev Wheatlands. Specifically the settlement of Chernozavstra, trying to maintain those new areas against a zombie plague that's swept through. He'd have abdicated the rule of Kislev to his daughter, Tsarina Katarin, who starts dealing with the Boyar Traitors who have risen up due to the extreme costs they've incurred from all of Boris' reforms and expansions. FLC/DLC would be Tsar Saltan of Praag, and Prince Ivan Radinov, off exploring in some far flung corner of the map.

    Daemons of Chaos would start with U'Zhul the Skulltaker and Epidemius the Tallyman, battling with N'Kari's forces and Norscan warlords over control of the Chaos Wastes. The Changeling and the Masque would join in the fun at a later date.

    Chaos Dwarfs would start with Zhatan the Black, forced to take care of Kislev colonists up around Uzkulak and Drazhoath the Ashen in the Black Tower driving off some Ogres. Additions would be Astragoth Ironhand in Zharr-Naggrund subjugating a Greenskin revolt, and the traitor Todrek Hackhart reclaiming his home of Barak Varr.

    Ogre Kingdoms would start with Skrag the Slaughterer out to feed the Great Maw, and Golfag Maneater doing some work in the western Dark Lands. Later, Greassus Goldtooth would have to be rolled out of his hall to take on the Southern Realms armies trying to wrest control of the Ivroy Road from him, while Braugh Slavelord would bring his soul-binding chains and a little death magic to spice up things on a slave-raid in the west.

    Ku'gath Plaguefather and Tamurkhan would have control of the Chaos Divided forces of Nurgle, while Khorne would get Skarbrand and Valkya, and Tzeentch forces would be led by Kairos Fateweaver and Egrimm van Horstmann.

    As the Chaos Divided forces came out, Warriors of Chaos and Beastmen would get the respective marks as FLC.

    Story would revolve around two main points: securing trade routes, and building favour with the gods.
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  14. #14
    The Wandering Storyteller's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: what factions in Warhammer 3?

    Quote Originally Posted by lolIsuck View Post
    But that'd be a terrible strategy. People who are not interested in playing a Chaos faction would have little incentive to buy that game then. It needs more variation than just various flavours of Chaos.
    I agree because I've had enough of the Chaos stuff. I'd rather see Ind, Cathay and Nippon. Cathay is a difficult situation, but let's hope! If I have to buy this game just because you need W3 for the whole mortal empires campaign, there won't be for me at least, an incentive to play Chaos. I mean those two pictures just don't bring much joy for me, they're just more Chaos settlements, Orcs (I'm fed up to the teeth dealing with them) and more burnt ash landscapes. I don't mind it, but I'd rather see the Hobgoblin Empire, and Cathay.

    Nippon - a rerun of the Shogun 2 campaign, only this time I'm conquering the Old World!

    Ind - a fresh attempt at an Indian faction,(We had one in ETW) and the most under-represented faction in the total war vanilla games.

    A Cathay campaign would be so lit. It'd be like playing three Kingdoms on fantasy steriods

    Plus it'd allow me to play my roleplay fantasy of Sun Wukong and his group travelling to the west!

    This image brings me hope. Plus I have seen Cathay/Araby hints in the campaign map. One thing. Teclis deals with Clan 'Eshin'. That's not a European name. So it seems there may be a small hint of Nippon.

    Araby has to come. If we get it, then Cathay/Ind/Nippon come, but for thaT, Dogs of War is needed.

    Plus a group of Chinese fans had visited CA, and presented a map of Cathay to Al. It'd be disappointing if W3 doesn't have Cathay, I want Ind as well!!!


    Last edited by The Wandering Storyteller; April 02, 2018 at 04:48 AM.





















































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    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: what factions in Warhammer 3?

    Well this is really more discussion for WH3 but lately I keep thinking about Skavens.

    Current situation in WH2 is that we will get one more Lord Pack with one more LL for Skaven. We already have FLC LL. My point is, Skavens are offering a lot characters (like Vampires and they are also missing pretty much nice characters like Luthor Harkon and Neferata..)

    So far we have:
    Lord Skrolk (Pestilence - Great clan)
    Tretch Craventail (Rictus - Warlord clan)
    Queek Headtaker (Mors - Warlord clan)

    With this we are missing three more Great clans and their LLs
    Skryre - Ikit Claw - Skavenblight already on ME map - missing lot famous units like Ratling Gun, Warpstone Jezzails, Warp-Grinder
    Moulder - Trot the Unclean/Skweel Gnawtooth (Mutator and Packmaster both valid choices) - Hell Pit - already on ME map - a few different Rat Ogre units like Armored ones, Mutants, Bonebreakers,..Chimearats,Burrowing Behemonts.
    Eshin - Deathmaster Snikch - also Skavenbligh +/- - well their infantry Night Runners, Gutter Runners are already ingame..

    and as special snowflake
    Council of Thirteen - Grey Seer Thanquol - Skavenblight/anywhere - personal Boneripper

    That´s five very good very well flashed out characters, perfect candidates for LLs with different factions, special units.. Yet we will see probably only one more LL for Skaven. Looking at old datamined info I can easily see why Skavens were supposed to have race/campaign DLC. Could it be possible to see something more for Skaven? DLC perhaps?
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  16. #16
    The Wandering Storyteller's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: what factions in Warhammer 3?

    @Daruwind,

    There's an interesting premise. I discovered when playing Teclis I attacked the Volcano and it came as Clan Eshin. I read the warhammer article and that's Skaven faction based in the East. My question is what Clan Eshin doing in the volcanic islands of Lustria? I suspect this is something to do with a possible hint of Nippon coming.
    http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Clan_Eshin

    But why the focus on Skaven though for Warhammer 2?





















































  17. #17
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: what factions in Warhammer 3?

    Well technically when we look where ended different LLs ...Teclis starting in Turtle Islands, Trench in Naggaroth, Khalida South Lustria (Vortex). Skavens are also one of faction you can find almost anywhere due to their doomsday plans.

    Eshin,Lustria...just from head Thanquol "led" expedition to city Quetza and part of that expedition were even assassin of clan Eshin (book - Thanquol and Boneripper: Temple of the Serpent) Which is basically where they are based in campaign map.

    Eshin is well connected with far east, this is actually playce they went and learned how to be proper assassins. In current timeline they are mostly connected with Skavenblight (as well as clan Skryre). So actually it is one clan with ability to pop up anywhere almost...
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Last edited by Daruwind; June 14, 2018 at 07:05 PM.
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    Steph's Avatar Maréchal de France
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    Default Re: what factions in Warhammer 3?

    Hi guys! We are quite few to follow and post here, but I like the quality of exchanges we have. I'd be happy to have your feedback on how to handle the future of my mod in relation with lore. Please comment in this thread

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...8#post15626898

  19. #19
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: what factions in Warhammer 3?

    @Steph I will try to read whole thread and make comment this weekend. Especially as HE are my favourite faction (Team Teclis! )

    Anyway, I got my hand on two more maps. Which are for current WH2/ME but tehy are damn great as resource!


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    Default Re: what factions in Warhammer 3?

    nice maps.

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