AI Cavalry overdose

**nvm** · January 30, 2018, 10:18 AM

This...is not intended, right? I thought it was bad when I saw Lougiones creating an army almost entirely consisting out of nomadic enclave troops, but observing this on turn 25 makes me feel that Hayasdan does deserve to be marked as Nigh-Impossible difficulty after all.

Please help me.

**QuintusSertorius** · January 30, 2018, 04:08 PM

The AI likes grouping similar units together, there's nothing we can do about that. I'm surprised you saw that kind of stack so soon, though, it's usually a late-game thing with a faction that's been left alone without fighting anyone for a while.

**athanaric** · January 31, 2018, 06:13 AM

Most of those are Anatolian Skirmisher cavalry; they're pretty weak. As long as you have a core of decent spearmen (Armenian ones. Forget Anatolian Spearmen, they're useless at their core function) and a reasonably strong force of archers and mid-tier spear cavalry, you should be fine. You might even be able to use autocalc.

**Dargaron** · January 31, 2018, 08:09 AM

/relevant

I do wonder how Pontos managed to get that many skirmisher cavalry by turn 25: They take ~10 turns to replenish one unit, and Pontos should really only have two provinces that can produce them (since IIRC, they aren't available in Sinope)

@athanaric: Wouldn't Anatolian Spearmen actually be more useful in this situation because of their javelins? That would allow them to fire back at the skirmisher cavalry while its skirmishing (which the AI usually does), while the Armenian Spearmen just have to stand there and get hit by javelins.

**Tactics Mayers** · January 31, 2018, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by Dargaron

/relevant

I do wonder how Pontos managed to get that many skirmisher cavalry by turn 25: They take ~10 turns to replenish one unit, and Pontos should really only have two provinces that can produce them (since IIRC, they aren't available in Sinope)

@athanaric: Wouldn't Anatolian Spearmen actually be more useful in this situation because of their javelins? That would allow them to fire back at the skirmisher cavalry while its skirmishing (which the AI usually does), while the Armenian Spearmen just have to stand there and get hit by javelins.

The Armenian Spearmen are far well armored when compared to the Anatolian Spearmen, especially with their shields having the defense value of 7 compared to the latter's 4.

**Ἀπολλόδοτος Α΄ ὁ Σωτήρ** · January 31, 2018, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by nvm

makes me feel that Hayasdan does deserve to be marked as Nigh-Impossible difficulty after all.
Please help me.

When they spam horsemen, you spam spearmen...

**QuintusSertorius** · January 31, 2018, 10:55 AM

How many provinces does Pontos have in your game? Unless they've bribed them from other factions and hired mercs, I don't understand how they could have recruited that many of the same unit so quickly.

**athanaric** · January 31, 2018, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by Dargaron

@athanaric: Wouldn't Anatolian Spearmen actually be more useful in this situation because of their javelins? That would allow them to fire back at the skirmisher cavalry while its skirmishing (which the AI usually does), while the Armenian Spearmen just have to stand there and get hit by javelins.

The problem is, Anatolian Spearmen can't fight worth a damn. As soon as an enemy unit charges them, they rout.
The cavalry AI in this mod is quite deft when it comes to probing for weak spots, so you need tough spearmen to absorb charges and bind enemy cavalry. The Armenian Spearmen don't have the greatest kill speed, but at least they'll hold.
Also, precursor javelins in EB II are difficult to handle effectively. In this scenario, you're better off with some archers and foot skirmishers to place next to your spearmen.

P.S. I play on M/M, so my units' poor performance is really not my own fault.

**Kull** · February 03, 2018, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by nvm

This...is not intended, right? I thought it was bad when I saw Lougiones creating an army almost entirely consisting out of nomadic enclave troops, but observing this on turn 25 makes me feel that Hayasdan does deserve to be marked as Nigh-Impossible difficulty after all.

To repeat Quintus' question - how many provinces does Pontos have here on T25? There's at least 10 Anatolian Light Cav units in that stack, and we're trying to figure out how they could get so many so soon. As Pontos-human, starting units (1) plus 0 recruited (none can be recruited in Amaseia) plus mercs (2 - one from each of the only two nearby pools) leaves me at only 3 after 10 turns, so it seems unlikely the AI could get that many Anatolian cav units under normal circumstances.

**nvm** · February 03, 2018, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by Kull

To repeat Quintus' question - how many provinces does Pontos have here on T25? There's at least 10 Anatolian Light Cav units in that stack, and we're trying to figure out how they could get so many so soon. As Pontos-human, starting units (1) plus 0 recruited (none can be recruited in Amaseia) plus mercs (2 - one from each of the only two nearby pools) leaves me at only 3 after 10 turns, so it seems unlikely the AI could get that many Anatolian cav units under normal circumstances.

They only have two, Sinope and Trapezous which makes this all the more mind-boggling. I wasn't really paying attention so to me it felt like they just outright conjured this stack out of thin air the moment I moved up my troop to Trapezous. I've only seen something like this before when a city of mine having only an allied government revolted, and it was full of client ruler's bodyguard units without generals as a result, but that's clearly not what happened here. Sorry I can't be much help here.

**HarkonRules** · February 03, 2018, 04:32 PM

The AI does like to use quite a bit of cavalry. I'm playing as Rome and getting into Spain to fight a Areuakoi superpower, and they always have at least 6 cavalry per stack, even 7.

**Floren d'Asteneuz** · February 05, 2018, 07:41 AM

Was the faction (Pontos) destroyed and reborn ? This could explain the spontaneous apparition of units.

**nvm** · February 05, 2018, 09:08 AM

Originally Posted by Floren d'Asteneuz

Was the faction (Pontos) destroyed and reborn ? This could explain the spontaneous apparition of units.

Nope. Now, what IS highly possible is that someone's triggered Amaseia's garrison script...And I got confused, they still hold Amaseia, not Sinope. Anyway, in the end that stack for some reason had turned rebel despite being commanded by a FM with 5 loyalty and their FL having 4 authority and they had to destroy it. I've never had a rebellion under such conditions myself, but I've heard of such horror stories before. So they had ended up going from overpowering 4 stacks down to 2 full stacks, one in their capital. I can't help but think that this somehow just was fate, as I can't think of any plausible logical explanation to this.

**QuintusSertorius** · February 05, 2018, 10:09 AM

The garrison script has a 10-turn cooldown on it, so at most it could have triggered three times in that period, giving 6 of those units.

**Tactics Mayers** · February 05, 2018, 11:22 AM

Related to stuff happening from Anatolia.

So much for an easy capture of a settlement...

Is Galatia going to be spamming stacks for as long as it exists? Do they count for Pontus' battle requirements for the reforms?

**Ivir Baggins** · February 05, 2018, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by Tactics Mayers

Is Galatia going to be spamming stacks for as long as it exists? Do they count for Pontus' battle requirements for the reforms?

Galatia will spam them forever last I checked.

**QuintusSertorius** · February 06, 2018, 03:50 AM

Galatia has it's own special treatment in the script to keep it restive, something akin to the Troublesome Regions script. In that particular case, taking Galatia only reduces the chances of Rebel spawns, it doesn't stop them.

Those battles don't count for the reform; only battles against a select set of factions do.

**Kravixon01** · February 06, 2018, 10:00 AM

Numidia's armies in my current Rome game circa turn 130 are roughly 70% skirmisher cav, 25% skirmisher, 5% other.

They were stomping over Carthage until I started intervening with the add_money console command.