CHANGE SETTLEMENT POSITION (by asadyan/son of persia)

**Nikron** · February 01, 2018, 08:04 AM

Can we do the same for Rome 2?

**Quintus Hortensius Hortalus** · February 03, 2018, 06:17 AM

Great tutorial

**Mr.Jox** · February 03, 2018, 07:55 AM

Don't become so happy too soon, you all forget about pathfinding, the most important campaign map logic feature. If it doesn't work, none of your displayed campaign map changes will matter.
This file is also a hardcoded file which needs decoding.

**Nikron** · February 04, 2018, 02:49 AM

Originally Posted by Mr.Jox

Don't become so happy too soon, you all forget about pathfinding, the most important campaign map logic feature. If it doesn't work, none of your displayed campaign map changes will matter.
This file is also a hardcoded file which needs decoding.

Was thinking the same before I start to mess around with it.

Has anyone done any testing on it?

**Malcolm** · February 12, 2018, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by Mr.Jox

Don't become so happy too soon, you all forget about pathfinding, the most important campaign map logic feature. If it doesn't work, none of your displayed campaign map changes will matter.
This file is also a hardcoded file which needs decoding.

I think Asadyan mentioned the pathfinding:

Originally Posted by asadyan

Yeah u could use it bro, yea i can change, it is so much easy to me then.

So actually there is another edit in startpos.esf makes AI could find better the new position, a special easy edit for AI, I'll update the post soon then, but basically it can find new position, but about the roads, seem not to have impossible modding, although we have a trade routes definition in startpos.esf & another in campaign maps.

**Dresden** · February 13, 2018, 02:16 PM

My concern remains the AI. At the mod summit we were specifically told about campaign map editing and the limitations thereof. There is even an Attila tool (not sure if it works) that lets you edit the campaign map. You can change water to land, move cities, change forest to grassland, etc. But, the underlying AI logic will always see the vanilla map. So, it will always see that ocean as land or that city as on the coast rather than in land. My understanding from that meeting was there was no way around this and never would be (which was a bit of a contentious topic at the time). The AI portion of the campaign map editing would not be something that could ever be modded. To give an example, we figured out how to move cities in Rome 2 also but it was just cosmetic.

There is a CAI part of every startpos its true, but I don't think that changes the pathfinding and basic AI logic of the map. As I said, I would love it if that is wrong and you are on the track of changing that. It would be a great thing for many mods to be able to do. My reservations simply stem from the explanation given by CA about the situation.

**Malcolm** · February 14, 2018, 04:30 AM

Originally Posted by Dresden

My concern remains the AI. At the mod summit we were specifically told about campaign map editing and the limitations thereof. There is even an Attila tool (not sure if it works) that lets you edit the campaign map. You can change water to land, move cities, change forest to grassland, etc. But, the underlying AI logic will always see the vanilla map. So, it will always see that ocean as land or that city as on the coast rather than in land. My understanding from that meeting was there was no way around this and never would be (which was a bit of a contentious topic at the time). The AI portion of the campaign map editing would not be something that could ever be modded. To give an example, we figured out how to move cities in Rome 2 also but it was just cosmetic.

There is a CAI part of every startpos its true, but I don't think that changes the pathfinding and basic AI logic of the map. As I said, I would love it if that is wrong and you are on the track of changing that. It would be a great thing for many mods to be able to do. My reservations simply stem from the explanation given by CA about the situation.

Thanks for the info Dresden. Did CA give any reason for the fact that AI logic is un-moddable? I'm just curious. The inability to mod the campaign map is one of the main reasons I stopped buying Total War games (until their on some kind of deal on Steam).

I look forward to seeing some testing of this method that Asadyan has come up with - though I won't hold my breath.

**Dresden** · February 15, 2018, 02:33 PM

I am hopeful too, I never doubt the ability of a dedicated modder

In terms of CA's reasoning, basically the AI part was hardcoded into the game itself somehow. I don't know the technical details, but suffice to say there was no efficient or practical way to have it accessible by tools. That doesn't mean its not somehow moddable by cracking something, I don't know - I am in the dark when it comes to that type of stuff.

**Malcolm** · February 15, 2018, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by Dresden

I am hopeful too, I never doubt the ability of a dedicated modder

In terms of CA's reasoning, basically the AI part was hardcoded into the game itself somehow. I don't know the technical details, but suffice to say there was no efficient or practical way to have it accessible by tools. That doesn't mean its not somehow moddable by cracking something, I don't know - I am in the dark when it comes to that type of stuff.

I'm sure they gave more information about it but it just strikes me as mad that a game developer would structure the game like that. Personally I think they intentionally make it as hard as possible to effectively mod the campaign map - giving them the option of releasing 'new games' that are pretty much the same game but with a new campaign map.

I don't blame them for that, it's a good way to make money (if it is what they are doing). I only wish they would allow modders to do things like move cities and change borders. Then when the games natural life cycle is over (say after 5 years) they could tell their fans where to look if they want to start modding the games campaign map.

Anyway, I went off on a tangent. I'll wait to hear what the results are from people testing these changes!

**stevehoos** · February 16, 2018, 01:55 AM

Originally Posted by Malcolm

I'm sure they gave more information about it but it just strikes me as mad that a game developer would structure the game like that. Personally I think they intentionally make it as hard as possible to effectively mod the campaign map - giving them the option of releasing 'new games' that are pretty much the same game but with a new campaign map.

I don't blame them for that, it's a good way to make money (if it is what they are doing). I only wish they would allow modders to do things like move cities and change borders. Then when the games natural life cycle is over (say after 5 years) they could tell their fans where to look if they want to start modding the games campaign map.

Anyway, I went off on a tangent. I'll wait to hear what the results are from people testing these changes!

I quit buying these games after Rome 2 because of the reasons you mention above. An innovation would spark my interest in modding here again. Of course CA designed the new format so they could make money being the new conversion modders essentially. Look at the amount of people still playing The Third Age, it made total financial sense.

**Frunk** · February 16, 2018, 04:00 AM

This is a modding tutorial, not a place to discuss CA business practice. Please get back on-topic. Thanks.

**Malcolm** · February 16, 2018, 04:12 AM

My bad - back to on topic regarding this tutorial. Asadyan must have tested his new settlement placement with the AI so hopefully we will get an update soon.

**Causeless** · September 26, 2019, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by Dresden

My concern remains the AI. At the mod summit we were specifically told about campaign map editing and the limitations thereof. There is even an Attila tool (not sure if it works) that lets you edit the campaign map. You can change water to land, move cities, change forest to grassland, etc. But, the underlying AI logic will always see the vanilla map. So, it will always see that ocean as land or that city as on the coast rather than in land. My understanding from that meeting was there was no way around this and never would be (which was a bit of a contentious topic at the time). The AI portion of the campaign map editing would not be something that could ever be modded. To give an example, we figured out how to move cities in Rome 2 also but it was just cosmetic.

There is a CAI part of every startpos its true, but I don't think that changes the pathfinding and basic AI logic of the map. As I said, I would love it if that is wrong and you are on the track of changing that. It would be a great thing for many mods to be able to do. My reservations simply stem from the explanation given by CA about the situation.

In terms of CA's reasoning, basically the AI part was hardcoded into the game itself somehow. I don't know the technical details, but suffice to say there was no efficient or practical way to have it accessible by tools. That doesn't mean its not somehow moddable by cracking something, I don't know - I am in the dark when it comes to that type of stuff.

This isn't quite correct. Nothing there is hardcoded into the game, and it can all be modified. Modders can generate new pathfinding files for the AI, but first the pathfinding file format needs to be reverse engineered.

The important note here is that, yes, it's hard work; but it's not impossible. It's not something that will never be modded. It's not something that is hardcoded.

It can be modded, just talented and hard-working individuals need to put the work in.

**izzi** · October 16, 2019, 08:15 AM

My feeling is that CA forgot to add the pathfinding conversion in BOB. In S2TW, you can clearly see many different conversion types (regions, pathfinding etc,...) and every type has subtypes conversion. regions for example have cities, ports, farms and special buildings. Than you have groundtypes (sea and land), etc...The same with pathfinding AI (takes the longest to load and convert).

**Erick220793** · January 12, 2024, 05:40 PM

Does anyone also know how I change the location features on the map display, I mean the animations, for example I would like to remove the arretium vineyards and replace with marble, remove elephants around jerusalem, iron mines animations for another location does anyone have any ideas ?

**Erick220793** · January 12, 2024, 05:48 PM

Hello, I made the changes but on my map the new location appears but there is no interactivity, I cannot move characters and attack the changed cities, the ones I can click on, it says there is something blocking it. Can someone help me?