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Thread: SSHIP Ideas for future releases

  1. #1

    Default SSHIP Ideas for future releases

    Hi everyone!
    After playing the mod for a while now, i came up with a few things i personally would think could be improved.
    I hope this will lead into some discussions to filter which points are nothing bar personally opinion and which ideas would be shared by a majority of the community.



    Note: As i have very, very limited insight in technical possiblities of the m2tw-engine, some ideas might not be doable from a technical aspect.
    All of this points arent mandatory changes, as the mod works pretty good already. Its just a few ideas of things that could be improved from my personal perspective.


    Trading-Ressources:
    (If the hard coded limit is not reached yet)

    Ressourcepotential spots
    Incense( Gaza Al-Ahsa, most south point of egypt, Mekkah )
    Horses( Southern France, up north on the very east end of the map)
    Weapons*( All over Europe)

    *as f.e. Saladin mentionend Europeans were always trading with weapons, this would also solve that there is very few “Europe-exclusive” ressources.

    More diversification within certain ressoruces:
    e.g. Spices ( cinnamon, nutmeg … )
    e.g. Fruits & Vegetables ( musk melon, cucumbers, apples, citrus fruits)

    Reasoning behind that is that as of now i will literally try to claim the same ressources which what ever faction i play. It kind of make sense, as some ressources were simply a lot of money for all displayed factions, but in fact there should have been slightly more diversity.

    Aggriculture:
    As it was already mentionend earlier in this thread: M2TW and literally all mods i know struggle to cover the importance of aggriculture at this period.
    Potential Ideas to solve that would be:

    -New Buildings (if possible)
    -Another 1-2 Levels of Farming Upgrades ( if possible)
    -“Spawning” Aggricultural Ressoruces with higher farming Upgrades, also increasing the trade value of the settlement

    This could also cover the slight issue of Regions that are very hardly developable. While this is something good in the early years, i found it very frustrating that certain cities ( e.g. in Poland and Scandinavia) hardly grow even in the later periods. Therefore some of the farming buildings could be made available after ~1300 and give those regions a chance to grow.

    Historically that would not make too much sense though. The farming improvements in europe mainly came into place 1-2 centuries later.


    Levy-Elite-Unit Ratio:
    While everyone wants to fight with fancy knights, they were just very few within the actual wars. When i play the game right now, i find myself using way more knights ( footed or mounted) than it would make sense. One of the main issues is that the religious order knights are extremely good.
    After mentioning i use them too frequently we get over to the AI. I hardly ever see AIs using huge stacks of “trash”-units. The mainly go with elite-stuff.

    Some ideas for changes:
    Increase upkeep costs for elite units even more
    Decrease availability even more
    Changing the AI in terms of recruiting / dont give them so many Elite-Units as free units

    Ghulam-System
    Therefore the Broken Crescent Mod had a decent approach. As SSHIP already includes Slave Markets they could also increase your recruitment-options in terms of Ghulam-Units.
    It could also be used to recruit new Generals ( similar to the Jousting-Fields), as most oriental armies had military slaves as generals.
    The Factions that could use it would be:
    Seljuqs of Rum, Grand Seljuqs, Abbasids, Zengids, Fatimids, ( Kypchaks), ( Mongols), ( Timurids)

    General

    -Include the Select the Heir Submod, since, well it makes sense to chose the heir doesnt it? .
    -would love to see Bukhara and Samarqand in future versions ( i know its tricky since other settlements would need to be subsituted)

  2. #2
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: SSHIP Ideas for future releases

    Resources: unless I'm wrong, the hardcoded limit is reached. It's difficult to implement more diversity for these.

    General:
    - Select the Heir should be included in the next version.

    - Both settlements you mentionned are far to much in the East for the actual map.
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  3. #3

    Default Re: SSHIP Ideas for future releases

    About ghulam system and slaves i also agree, and is logical have them in slave markets with other warrior slaves
    THE MORE YOU SWEAT NOW,
    THE LESS YOU BLEED IN BATTLE!!!



    Sign the petition to remove hardcoded limits for M2TW

  4. #4

    Default Re: SSHIP Ideas for future releases

    These are really great ideas honestly, especially about the Ghulam System.

  5. #5
    bigdaddy1204's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: SSHIP Ideas for future releases

    New North African faction would be fun. Do we really need Portugal? Or the Cumans? Who ever played as them?
    Quote Originally Posted by Adar View Post
    I am quite impressed by the fact that you managed to make such a rant but still manage to phrase it in such a way that it is neither relevant to the thread nor to the topic you are trying to introduce to the thread.

  6. #6
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: SSHIP Ideas for future releases

    We already had this discussion by the past and there was no North African faction "strong enough" to justify Portugal's replacement. If we ever replace Portugal, that wouldn't be with a faction from that area.
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  7. #7
    bigdaddy1204's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: SSHIP Ideas for future releases

    The "rebel" provinces in Medieval 2 TW are basically just free regions waiting for a faction to come along and capture it. In newer games like Attila TW there is no rebels, at least at at first.

    One concern that calls for a N.A. faction is to prevent Sicily in North Africa. The sight of those imperialist dogs in Tunis is too much to bear!

    If only there was a way to add more factions. I know Titanium does have a North Africa faction. But I prefer the SSHIP campaign mechanics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adar View Post
    I am quite impressed by the fact that you managed to make such a rant but still manage to phrase it in such a way that it is neither relevant to the thread nor to the topic you are trying to introduce to the thread.

  8. #8
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: SSHIP Ideas for future releases

    As far as I know, we have buffed the rebels stacks in Tunisia. It's not that easy anymore. We can make it to be harder to conquer and to hold. But that's it.
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  9. #9

    Default Re: SSHIP Ideas for future releases

    Could I make a suggestion?
    Make spearmen slightly less useless.
    Yes, I'm aware it's probably historically accurate for cavalry to be walking murder-machines, but the fact that the enemy knights can charge a set formation and utterly obliterate it, especially when said formation is allegedly 'professional' sergeant spearmen, or Norman spearmen, is immensely frustrating. As it currently is early-game spearmen, a bit like the Light Men-at-Arms, simply serve no real purpose, since their one job (fighting off cavalry) is something they can't do even with the advantages of a hill, a schiltrom, and set spears.
    I might not be using them right, I admit, but even charging tangled-up enemy cavalry produces some...unfavorable kill ratios for the spearmen.
    Alii inferre bellum, facientibus pacem.


  10. #10
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: SSHIP Ideas for future releases

    When time permitting, I'll finish to fix the reported issues. From there, we should be able to release something (no major changes on that one but rather an attempt to settle things down to get a base for further modifications).
    From there, I'd like to re-arrange the EDU, getting ride of the useless and unhistorical units, in order to set some slots free to be able to make the rosters more specific. During that process (which will be probably done in several steps), units stats should be re-worked as well
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  11. #11

    Default Re: SSHIP Ideas for future releases

    Perhaps reduce the charge values across the board.

  12. #12

    Default Re: SSHIP Ideas for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by Mamlaz View Post
    Perhaps reduce the charge values across the board.
    I wonder if that can be done without fatally compromising their usefulness and historical destructiveness, especially against infantry.

    I am fairly certain 'stun' animations are a thing (they can be seen when firing gunpowder weapons on an armored enemy- some will be knocked to the ground but will get back up) and maybe it'd work better if those occurred for most of the current kills instead? The big problem with charges as they currently are is that each cavalryman can kill 5-6 people on a charge with each impacting cavalryman, which makes tight formations of spearmen worse for fighting cavalry.


    Anyway, yeah, other gripes are as follows:
    Light Men-at-Arms, as stated before, are utterly useless. They take just as long to recruit as feudal knights, require better facilities, are nearly as expensive, and yet are useless on the battlefield, losing out to basically everything that I've found.
    Feudal is still listed as 'free upkeep in castles'. Remove this?
    The Pope dying tends to undo your alliances/military access with the faction. This is immensely frustrating to deal with especially since the AI finds it difficult to make alliances.
    Military access definitely needs to be reduced in 'cost' for diplomacy. As it currently is AI will never allow it without there being a massive cash bribe involved, even if the parties in question are long-standing allies.
    Cost of taking cities/sacking needs to reduce your reputation loss and the religious orders need to have less strict requirements for recruitment. Especially if you're fighting rebels/Muslims if Catholic/Christians if Muslim/anyone when on a Crusade/same for Jihad etc etc etc. Likely not possible to implement 'public relations' ie 'this war is something we've been forced into, ignore what we do to save our people'. Also reduce/remove rep loss when you're forced to break an alliance ie your allies fight it out for no reason.
    Reduce the warmongering of the AI?
    Increase difficulty of maintaining empires. Are faction limits hardcoded? If not, emergent factions would be great.

    EDIT:

    Make vassalage easier/implement Napoleon-esque method where you can create a new faction?

    Stop having allied faction relations decline so rapidly for no discernible reason. I shouldn't have to pump 10k florins a turn to each of my allies to keep the relations 'good'.
    Last edited by reaper101; October 15, 2018 at 08:48 AM.
    Alii inferre bellum, facientibus pacem.


  13. #13

    Default Re: SSHIP Ideas for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by reaper101 View Post
    The big problem with charges as they currently are is that each cavalryman can kill 5-6 people on a charge with each impacting cavalryman, which makes tight formations of spearmen worse for fighting cavalry.
    Basically these guys spit six people and their shields etc on one lance, and then with each swing slice through metal helmets and instantly kill people.

    It gets to where it's an easy choice to shoot crossbows into melees, because the spearmen are dead either way, it's more matter of if you actually kill the cavalry or not.

    I think if you have a straight melee brawl and you feed infantry into exhausted general's bodyguards you'll end up with like 10 deaths for 1 kill, which isn't too bad. However some units, like the crazy Lithuanian Followers of Perkunas unit do hilariously well despite no armor or shield or defense as they have armor pierce and a large anti-cavalry bonus. (Even the super SS Byzantine bodyguards die to their version of Perkunas)

  14. #14
    Nemesis2345's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: SSHIP Ideas for future releases

    Well i remeber i buffed the bonus against cavalry for all units that had it (including spearmen, poleaxes, pikes etc) and they did a bit better, they would still get kinda destroyed in charges but at least in the after fight, they can kill some of those guys faster. I did it because i find it a bit stupid how 3 units of spears can barely kill 1 heavy cav unit, especially when the horse is not armoured like the Gothic Knights for example.

  15. #15

    Default Re: SSHIP Ideas for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis2345 View Post
    Well i remeber i buffed the bonus against cavalry for all units that had it (including spearmen, poleaxes, pikes etc) and they did a bit better, they would still get kinda destroyed in charges but at least in the after fight, they can kill some of those guys faster. I did it because i find it a bit stupid how 3 units of spears can barely kill 1 heavy cav unit, especially when the horse is not armoured like the Gothic Knights for example.
    How'd you do that? And would increasing the bonus make things more realistic?
    Alii inferre bellum, facientibus pacem.


  16. #16
    Nemesis2345's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: SSHIP Ideas for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by reaper101 View Post
    How'd you do that? And would increasing the bonus make things more realistic?
    A simple thing. Go to the mod's data folder and look for export_descr_unit and there you can change all the stats of the units, look for the line ,,mount effect'' and there you have it, usually they have +1 or +2, i edited to +3 or +4. And yeah, in combat if the enemy cav stood too long in hand to hand combat with the spears, they would suffer more casualities, especially if they are not strong knights as i said before.

  17. #17

    Default Re: SSHIP Ideas for future releases

    Quote Originally Posted by Nemesis2345 View Post
    A simple thing. Go to the mod's data folder and look for export_descr_unit and there you can change all the stats of the units, look for the line ,,mount effect'' and there you have it, usually they have +1 or +2, i edited to +3 or +4. And yeah, in combat if the enemy cav stood too long in hand to hand combat with the spears, they would suffer more casualities, especially if they are not strong knights as i said before.
    Would +5 or +6 work even better? Or would that be unrealistic?
    Alii inferre bellum, facientibus pacem.


  18. #18
    Lifthrasir's Avatar "Capre" Dunkerquois
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    Default Re: SSHIP Ideas for future releases

    There's no "magic" formula unfortunately. That is something you'll have to test with many units to see how it works.
    Under the patronage of Flinn, proud patron of Jadli, from the Heresy Vault of the Imperial House of Hader

  19. #19

    Default Re: SSHIP Ideas for future releases

    Last bit:
    Men at Arms either need a buff to stats or a reduction in price/spawn time. They're worse than Feudal Knights, and yet more expensive...as well as requiring a Citadel and maxed-out barracks. Not a cost-effective unit or IMO terribly realistic...
    Alii inferre bellum, facientibus pacem.


  20. #20
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: SSHIP Ideas for future releases

    Interactive events: the troubadours should be restricted to the Catholic factions. I also think that some more indication of achieving a "chivalric culture" could be added as a condition. Existence of the tourney fields?
    I wonder think it's plausible that they may come after 1183, but I don't know if those 100 turns are a leftover from the SS (which started in 1100 but had 1TPY, so it would be 1200), or not.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    ;--- Troubadours
    monitor_event FactionTurnStart not IsFactionAIControlled
    and FactionBuildingExists > town_hall
    and RandomPercent < 5
    and I_TurnNumber > 100


    historic_event troubadours_event true


    end_monitor

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