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Thread: Total War games as Real Time Strategies

  1. #21
    Dismounted Feudal Knight's Avatar my horse for a unicode
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    Default Re: Total War games as Real Time Strategies

    No. I don't think real time campaign maps would do anything for the game, which is largely built on the turn base premise. It is a core of the series, and the combination of factors that make the series what it is, is the reason why I play this series and have ultimately passed up others. Turn based campaign map and real time battles is one of the points that is core to the premise. Make it as a mod, but do not make it a staple of total war. Let TW be TW, not draw key inspirations from games that are fundamentally different.

    Further, I completely dislike the concept of day by day turns. I'm all for longer spans of time, but every day simply sounds far too excessive to me.
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  2. #22
    Daruwind's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: Total War games as Real Time Strategies

    What I would love to see is a more robust army composition / tactical system.

    Imagine if armies has like 40 units. You could designate some as vanguard, rearguard, scouting troops, foraging parties/pillaging, main body....each with specific sub commander with his own stats, for example with more units into pillaging we will get more money/food reduction/whatever for such stance. Ambushes will be influences by scouting size, experience, that particular sub commander.

    This system will allow like small tactical minigame when scouts can get info/prevent amubshes/find good spots for them...vanguard could hold some important sites like bridges, crossings....cavalry on flaks could be just that. With small skirmishes between not full armies being able to to develop into pitch battles and so.

    And the system would lead into pitch battles. Current system every times leads into pitch battles or one army fleeing from other. I would love to see more... :-)
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  3. #23

    Default Re: Total War games as Real Time Strategies

    Quote Originally Posted by Daruwind View Post
    What I would love to see is a more robust army composition / tactical system.

    Imagine if armies has like 40 units. You could designate some as vanguard, rearguard, scouting troops, foraging parties/pillaging, main body....each with specific sub commander with his own stats, for example with more units into pillaging we will get more money/food reduction/whatever for such stance. Ambushes will be influences by scouting size, experience, that particular sub commander.

    This system will allow like small tactical minigame when scouts can get info/prevent amubshes/find good spots for them...vanguard could hold some important sites like bridges, crossings....cavalry on flaks could be just that. With small skirmishes between not full armies being able to to develop into pitch battles and so.

    And the system would lead into pitch battles. Current system every times leads into pitch battles or one army fleeing from other. I would love to see more... :-)
    Interesting ideas, I might actually be tempted to play some of the new titles if the games incoportated some of these more complex features.

  4. #24
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Total War games as Real Time Strategies

    Quote Originally Posted by Belthasar Bolton View Post
    Interesting ideas, I might actually be tempted to play some of the new titles if the games incoportated some of these more complex features.
    Unfortuntelly, I don't think there'll be such features in the new titles. You'd better play they DarthVader's Ultimate General series. It does provide for such features.

    This is not to say that I'm negative on the Thrones of Britannia. On the contrary - from what I've seen on the Youtube clips and in the descriptions, I expect it to be a good game, much improved in comparison with the other titles. I hope the main culprit - the "sniping group strategy" - will be limited as well.

    Caeterum censeo - you'd better play an older mod, especially in M2TW - like TATW, EBII, BC or SSHIP

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    Dominant strategy in Rome2, Attila, ToB and Troy: “Sniping groups of armies”. Still there, alas!

  5. #25
    HigoChumbo's Avatar Definitely not Jom.
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    Default Re: Total War games as Real Time Strategies

    I wrote a few walls of text on these things back in the day, I found a couple that might add something:

    Quote Originally Posted by From thread: What do you want TW Warhammer to be like?
    Well, I've written miles about this in another threads, so I'm not going to repeat the whole thing again. As a summary (which will most likely confuse more than explain), my ideal Warhammer game would retain large, real time, tactical battles, but would draw some features from other games, like map design (Wargame, Black&White2), physical, raidable, lootable trade routes (Anno 1404), irregular resource placement (Anno 1404, Civilization), strategic resource availability directly tied to unit production (for instance and as an oversimplification, if you had 1000 manpower, 200 iron and 100 horses, you could make 100 mounted knights, 100 armoured soldiers and 800 militiamen, and if u had no iron, you would need to trade, or raid trade routes, conquer a province with the resource, and if you had no way to obtain it, you would be forced to adapt your strategy to fighting with light troops), i'd like the campaign to be understood more as a support platform for the military and trade rather than a citizen welfare simulator, a diplomacy system on par with Europa Universalis 4 and that soldiers managed to feel more like individuals rather than expendable ants.

    If I were allowed to dream even further, I'd love to see them try and get rid of the separate turn-based campaign/real time battles system, and make everything happen seamlessly in real time in the same full 3d map instead (as a big rts with TW battles), in which armies would travel slowly, army maneuvering would be key (at the very least in the general lines of Cossacks 2) and hence you should carefully plan your campaigns in advance (as if you were launching dangerous, unpredictable expeditions into the unknown rather than just rightclicking on the next closest city you want to siege as in TW). Leaving the security of a city or your realm should feel really scary and make you thrilled (imagine your troops looking as cool as the orc army leaving Minas Morgul in The Lord of the Rings).


    I guess you could understand it as an upscaled, very-slow paced, tactical RTS game. Think of it as Anno 1404 in a much larger map with many more cities, with free camera rather than an isometric view (like Black&White 2 or Wargame), with less/no city-building and Total War like armies (again, an oversimplification to make the point). If they were to keep the turn-based system, I'd like to see battles fought differently, as if the battle represented a region rather than a plaing battlefield, so the battle would take place in real time in several stages in the same map, with different areas and objetives. I guess pretty much what Cossack 2 was, but Total War style and in a larger area..


    Also, if you are up for an absolute wall of text, here is a thread I started some time ago:

    Features from other games you'd like to see in Total War

  6. #26
    Jurand of Cracow's Avatar History and gameplay!
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    Default Re: Total War games as Real Time Strategies

    This part I like the most:
    Quote Originally Posted by HigoChumbo View Post
    i'd like the campaign to be understood more as a support platform for the military and trade rather than a citizen welfare simulator, a diplomacy system on par with Europa Universalis 4 and that soldiers managed to feel more like individuals rather than expendable ants.

    If I were allowed to dream even further, I'd love to see them try and get rid of the separate turn-based campaign/real time battles system, and make everything happen seamlessly in real time in the same full 3d map instead (as a big rts with TW battles), in which armies would travel slowly, army maneuvering would be key (at the very least in the general lines of Cossacks 2) and hence you should carefully plan your campaigns in advance (as if you were launching dangerous, unpredictable expeditions into the unknown rather than just rightclicking on the next closest city you want to siege as in TW).
    This is also the direction I'd like the games head to.

    Interestingly, in the new Paradox game - Imperator - they're going to create more granular map (this Sicily example with 23 units, while before it was 2-5) and also some tactical orders given to the armies how they should behave in case of a battle. I think it's the more in the spirit of the opinions voiced in this thread. For me, the two most annoying features of the Europa Universalis were
    1. during the war my tactical actions consisted of looking for smaller AI armies and attacking them separately. This was also related to this weird mechanics of an army going from one province to the other and being not able to go back after half of the distance was made - so I had to watch it and only when it made that distance, I would send my army from a neighbouring province to "catch" it.
    2. complete lack of tactical dimension of warfare. This maneuvering was all you could do besides earlier diplomacy (and building those extremely expensive forts beforehand) - otherwise only quantity and quality of troops would matter, so nothing could counter even a bit against bigger factions.

    So maybe Paradox will go more in the direction I want - the war would be more operational hence it would be possible to do something reasonable to win your wars, not only have more troops.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Total War games as Real Time Strategies

    Not a bad idea, I definitely like the possibility of civil riots and uprisings but I dislike the way that public order works and affects the game.


    • UNREST: I think they keep it that way to prevent rushing (unstable provinces keep you busy 3-10 turns more or less before they can be let without vigilance). I'd prefer the manpower and supplies mechanics instead.
    • ATTRITION: Supplies could both prevent you from achieving a total victory, force you to rush the enemy lands in the seek of food or let guerrila warfare have a true impact on enemy supply lines. Tried it in TW ancient empires and it's a great idea. With supply routes mechanics implemented on a TW it'd be wonderful and give a rich experience. Holding certain strategic resources or settlements could give you better supplies.
    • VICTORY CONDITIONS: I'd like to change victory conditions for a sandbox gameplay. I hate when I have to murder my deffensive allies just because I need to get certain provinces to win the game. And it makes the late campaign boring, no true menaces, no true challenge, just slowly gain an insane ammount of gold/settlements/technologies. Get the same feeling when playing civilization or endless space/legends. The start is delightful but after I get to be the strongest, bye bye fun. Paradox' sandbox campaigns make you want to expoilt every single moment to be as powerful as possible at the end of the game. Even on legendary the end of the campaign is rather easy.
    • TECH TREES: Tech trees are not a bad idea, but most of them have very little impact. It could be changed to a different formula: missions unlock the most important technologies. For example: destroy X faction to trigger publius marius' reforms, hold a certain region to unlock stronger cavalry... that would make mission more meaningful and you'd be more voracious to achieve them. A timid ongoing into this idea would be in attila total war: your faction name and some other great aspects change if you do certain main missions. Really fluffy and immersive.

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