[Request] Historical reform dates

[Dardo21]

Europa Barbarorum 1 and 2, includes historical dates for their reforms, you could look into their script file.

[Dardo21]

It is obviously too much as term of gameplay. Still @Eldgrimr has got a point since the reforms happen too early in current DeI and those did not match the circumstances. In my campaign, AI rome faction aleady reach the Marian reforms, despite of that they even do not start Punic war in the year of 240 BC. We should consider both the realism (hence the immersion) and gameply. It is start with pointing out that rome 2 have their own years and the circumstances since it is What if history game. Therefore It is not good idea sticking to specific years. Rather it should stick to the circumstances in the game. For example the Marian reforms should begin with The war between Germanic tribes and Romans. It would be even better adding crushing defeat of the roman as conditional statement if the script allow it technically. (of course Empire Levels too) The same goes for The polybian reform In that case with the punic war.

Forcing the player to stick to arbitrary rules is what makes the reforms in Europa Barbarorum such a pain in the neck. Games like these allow the player to re-write history, forcing them to stick to arbitrary historical objectives nullifies the concept completly.

[HarkonRules]

Eh, I disagree that Europa Barbarorum has really "arbitrary" rules for their reforms. If you really think about the reform requirements, they're plausible and intricate for the type of reform an individual faction would require in my view to reach a certain point, they're not even purely "historical", they can be similar to what happened in History because the factions have certain circumstances one way or the other, but some are precisely would-be alternate reality that feels plausible, and feel quite rewarding. In my opinion, quite a lot more than DeI's simple Imperium requirement, but I guess most people prefer faster gratification and Rome 2 is an arcadey game anyways.

[Dardo21]

I agree that some of the reform objectives are plausible, like the large farms for marian reforms and such, but being required to fight x amount of large battles against the Galatians for Pergamon, while the Galatians might have been defeated already, requiring X amount of battles in Cisalpine Gaul, when you've already conquered it, so you're not actually able to fight any battles in there anymore unless you go drag enemies down there. That's arbitrary, and that doesn't mean that everyone who doesn't like them suddenly wants 'faster gratification' as you call it. I don't mind taking required steps to achieve a reform, but when the game forces me to engage specific factions, then I'm no longer able to play it as I want to.

[HarkonRules]

The Galatians keep spawning over script until you achieve certain conditions, and the battles in Cisalpine Gaul are really a given considering the rebel field armies (some are hiding in ambush, send a spy to locate those before they surprise you while you siege a town) and siege battles where they sally out to fight / get reinforcements also count so you could always wait them out. I think that, considering that the Polybian reforms are all about adopting new equipment from fights with specific enemies, and restructuring the army organization due to the demand of those conflicts, they are reasonable requirements, and if you don't want to go through the trouble of getting it earlier, you can just get them some 40 turns later if I remember right which is nothing in EB2. But to each his own I guess. Perhaps the number of battles could be lowered to 3.

One could make the case that the game doesn't really force you to do anything, it's up to you to "chase" the reforms earlier or not. But I find that quest in itself interesting.

[Little Legionaire]

I think Roman reforms should be based on their power (Imperium) level. As we know the very need of Roman reforms triggered by some certain events and incidents such as fielding more armies solved by Marius allowing the poorer classes and arming them by the state. Basically expansion and longer campaigns and more enemies in distant lands forced their hand to form even more professional armies and to field more armies some old traditions and regulations needed to be evolved accordingly.

To simulate such effect imo some certain imperium level requirements needs to be redone if necessary not the dates. Dates are irrelevant when it comes to such simulation. I think the real connection is understanding the very reason of what made the Romans rethink about their army organization, enlistment and managing the manpower of Roman Republic according to their pressing needs.

My two cents,

[Falco]

I think Roman reforms should be based on their power (Imperium) level. As we know the very need of Roman reforms triggered by some certain events and incidents such as fielding more armies solved by Marius allowing the poorer classes and arming them by the state. Basically expansion and longer campaigns and more enemies in distant lands forced their hand to form even more professional armies and to field more armies some old traditions and regulations needed to be evolved accordingly.

To simulate such effect imo some certain imperium level requirements needs to be redone if necessary not the dates. Dates are irrelevant when it comes to such simulation. I think the real connection is understanding the very reason of what made the Romans rethink about their army organization, enlistment and managing the manpower of Roman Republic according to their pressing needs.

My two cents,

Agreed 100%

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

I think Roman reforms should be based on their power (Imperium) level. As we know the very need of Roman reforms triggered by some certain events and incidents such as fielding more armies solved by Marius allowing the poorer classes and arming them by the state. Basically expansion and longer campaigns and more enemies in distant lands forced their hand to form even more professional armies and to field more armies some old traditions and regulations needed to be evolved accordingly.

To simulate such effect imo some certain imperium level requirements needs to be redone if necessary not the dates. Dates are irrelevant when it comes to such simulation. I think the real connection is understanding the very reason of what made the Romans rethink about their army organization, enlistment and managing the manpower of Roman Republic according to their pressing needs.

My two cents,

Good points buddy.

[Eldgrimr]

I think Roman reforms should be based on their power (Imperium) level. As we know the very need of Roman reforms triggered by some certain events and incidents such as fielding more armies solved by Marius allowing the poorer classes and arming them by the state. Basically expansion and longer campaigns and more enemies in distant lands forced their hand to form even more professional armies and to field more armies some old traditions and regulations needed to be evolved accordingly.

To simulate such effect imo some certain imperium level requirements needs to be redone if necessary not the dates. Dates are irrelevant when it comes to such simulation. I think the real connection is understanding the very reason of what made the Romans rethink about their army organization, enlistment and managing the manpower of Roman Republic according to their pressing needs.

My two cents,

I totally agree with that! I hope someone does something like this, either in a submod or an official DeI update.

[Little Legionaire]

I totally agree with that! I hope someone does something like this, either in a submod or an official DeI update.

Yep! I hope someone does that for the Romans my friend. Just wanted share my thoughts and thanks all dear friends for support and kind words.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

I totally agree with that! I hope someone does something like this, either in a submod or an official DeI update.

Yep! I hope someone does that for the Romans my friend. Just wanted share my thoughts and thanks all dear friends for support and kind words.

I'll pass the idea to the rest of the team.

[Michael Wittmann]

I know the reason why the reforms happen long before they happened in real life, it's because it would take so long to play until 100 BC for example.
Still, it would be nice with an optional submod that changes the reform dates to their historical counterparts, for crazy history-lovers like me.
I would really appreciate if someone who knows the certain dates and game files would do this.

I agree! Even if we don't get to use all the reforms before we see victory, it would still be cool! Can always play with the Imperial Reforms in the Augustus Campaign.