Skin colour controversy and acting

[TheLeft]

Jesus is from the Middle East right? Have you seen pictures of Assad? He looks white to me. There are plenty of Middle Easterners who are white.
As for John Wayne playing Genghis Khan, not only was that movie from before the Civil Rights Act, but it’s also rated as one of the worst movies.
Also stop playing the “Every opinion I don’t like is alt-right”

So because one guy from the Middle East has fairly light skin they all do? Wow. Just Wow.

What was I saying about race baiting...

[fkizz]

Jesus is from the Middle East right? Have you seen pictures of Assad? He looks white to me. There are plenty of Middle Easterners who are white.
As for John Wayne playing Genghis Khan, not only was that movie from before the Civil Rights Act, but it’s also rated as one of the worst movies.
Also stop playing the “Every opinion I don’t like is alt-right”

To be fair Assad is not "White" in terms of pure ethnicity, but plenty of what you refer to as "white-looking" people exist across the Mediterranean.
The problem is that what is "White" is poorly defined, and seems mostly to indirectly refer to people who look Anglo-Saxon or WASP-y. The confusing definition doesn't help. Better to just assume "White" as Anglo-Saxon and be done with it.

Assad can have swarthy genes, it could be possible that some of his offspring end up being fairly swarthy. Also depends on exposition to sun. Some Mediterranean skin complexions are very sensitive to amount of monthly hours of sun exposed to, others not so much. With some patience, you can even find blondes and redheads on north africa.

[Kyriakos]

Jesus is from the Middle East right? Have you seen pictures of Assad? He looks white to me. There are plenty of Middle Easterners who are white.
As for John Wayne playing Genghis Khan, not only was that movie from before the Civil Rights Act, but it’s also rated as one of the worst movies.
Also stop playing the “Every opinion I don’t like is alt-right”

Indeed It is somewhat bizarre to expect people to feel collectively guilty due to some holywood movie (eg the infamous one with Genghis Khan)

[athanaric]

Is this not fair and blonde?

No, that's an albino. That person has a mild medical condition. Do you really think that's the same thing?

So if according to our Alt-Right friends, everything in all forms of literature has to be ethnically correct, so I'm assuming you're all busy burning and getting just as outraged at all the film adaptations of Jesus being played by numerous white guys? John Wayne being Genghis Khan must really annoy you all? Of course it doesn't. It only winds you all up when it's a black guy...

This thread is just pure race baiting, nothing more.

That's funny, seeing how you obviously haven't read the thread, probably because you were busy strawmanning all of us critics as "alt-right". Otherwise, you'd have seen me denounce the John Wayne movie at least once. And I've also given an explanation how Jesus could've been white, even though it's statistically unlikely. BTW, I dislike Bible movies and stuff like "Gods of Egypt" too.

[TheLeft]

No, that's an albino. That person has a mild medical condition. Do you really think that's the same thing?

Who knows? That's the funny thing about fictional tales like the Iliad. Achilles didn't really exist and the events described didn't really happen. So we can cast the best actor for the role without worrying about offending the 'God's of Ethnic History'.

That's funny, seeing how you obviously haven't read the thread, probably because you were busy strawmanning all of us critics as "alt-right". Otherwise, you'd have seen me denounce the John Wayne movie at least once. And I've also given an explanation how Jesus could've been white, even though it's statistically unlikely. BTW, I dislike Bible movies and stuff like "Gods of Egypt" too.

If the label of 'Alt-Right' offends you then I apologise.

[mishkin]

Indeed It is somewhat bizarre to expect people to feel collectively guilty due to some holywood movie (eg the infamous one with Genghis Khan)

Noone has said we should feel guilty. To acknowledge that fifty years ago society committed hurtful stupidities without any shame has nothing to do with guilt. But of course feel free to feel guilty if you personally today do not see anything bad in whitewashing or if you feel minimally attacked because a black actor plays a white fictional character in a tv series.

[Sir Adrian]

Who knows? That's the funny thing about fictional tales like the Iliad. Achilles didn't really exist and the events described didn't really happen. So we can cast the best actor for the role without worrying about offending the 'God's of Ethnic History'.

Actually he did. The siege of Troy was real. And even if he did not. In the books he is a greek. Unless I am color blind I don't see any sub-saharan greeks walking around.

But let's see what the ancients thought.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

White as day




Still white




Gandalf white

[Infidel144]

I'm finding the outrage in this thread from the Alt-Right nutters & Greek Nationalists really funny.

Who are the "Alt-Right nutters"?

[sumskilz]

so I'm assuming you're all busy burning and getting just as outraged at all the film adaptations of Jesus being played by numerous white guys?

Well, doesn't seem as much a stretch since the only people native to the Southern Levant who haven't intermarried with any other group for ~2,400 years look like this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

So many assumptions about Middle Eastern people, I just have to keep recycling these Samaritan pics.

For the record though, the historically implausible thing about the 1959 Judah Ben-Hur, wasn't so much that he was played by Northern European guy, but that his name means "Son of Horus". Not very Jewy.

At least his "love interest" was played by an Israeli:



And what was up with the Klingon guy?

So because one guy from the Middle East has fairly light skin they all do? Wow. Just Wow.

While that's a pretty sweet Cathy Newman-style reframe, the problem is you've quoted his whole post, so we can all see what he actually said, even without going back a page.

[Derpy Hooves]

So because one guy from the Middle East has fairly light skin they all do? Wow. Just Wow.

What was I saying about race baiting...

[IMG]https://news-images.vice.com/images/articles/meta/2016/02/04/the-syrian-regime-is-close-to-a-victory-that-could-turn-the-war-1454629700.jpg?crop=1xw:0.5823863636363636xh;0xw,0.10795454545454546xh&resize=1200:*&output-format=image/jpeg&output-quality=75[/IMG]

I can do this all day. You want some Lebanese with that?



Typical leftist stereotypes of Middle Easterners. You guys think that all Middle Easterners are brown and all Europeans are white.

[Copperknickers II]

This is the bbc. Their most recent show was Britannia. I don't think anyone can seriously expect Troy not to bomb ridiculously
And indeed the main actors will suffer more than anyone else due to that; so they weren't helped at all.

Actually Britannia isn't BBC, it's Amazon/Sky.

[Kyriakos]

Actually Britannia isn't BBC, it's Amazon/Sky.

Indeed, i noticed that later, but kept quiet ^^
It does show a trend, though, given it is another local show (isn't Sky british?)

[Copperknickers II]

[IMG]https://news-images.vice.com/images/articles/meta/2016/02/04/the-syrian-regime-is-close-to-a-victory-that-could-turn-the-war-1454629700.jpg?crop=1xw:0.5823863636363636xh;0xw,0.10795454545454546xh&resize=1200:*&output-format=image/jpeg&output-quality=75[/IMG]

I can do this all day. You want some Lebanese with that?



Typical leftist stereotypes of Middle Easterners. You guys think that all Middle Easterners are brown and all Europeans are white.

Are you trying to say those guys look European? The second from right guy would look quite at home in a bazaar in Lahore. The middle guy would probably not stick out too much in Kabul. The others are at least vaguely Caucasian but are still decidedly on the Eastern side of the Bosphorus, if they walked into a Golden Dawn meeting in Athens I doubt they'd be welcomed with open arms, let alone the non-olive skinned parts of Europe.

[Derpy Hooves]

Maybe from a European perspective that’s the case, but from an American perspective, they look white

[sumskilz]

The others are at least vaguely Caucasian but...

Vaguely? I think those guys look more Caucasian than most European do.

The back two guys look like they could be Southern European to me, or Ashkenazi Jews. Anyway, Derpy was responding to a post indignant about the assertion that light skin is common in the Middle East. Depends on what is meant by light skin, but I've met plenty of Southern Europeans that are the same color as those guys.

[Aexodus]

Are you trying to say those guys look European? The second from right guy would look quite at home in a bazaar in Lahore. The middle guy would probably not stick out too much in Kabul. The others are at least vaguely Caucasian but are still decidedly on the Eastern side of the Bosphorus, if they walked into a Golden Dawn meeting in Athens I doubt they'd be welcomed with open arms, let alone the non-olive skinned parts of Europe.

I believe that he is referring to the fact that Jesus could have had white skin, as a Levantine, as a pose to say, an Arab.

The reason however for Jesus being commonly (and very likely incorrectly) depicted as a white European, as in the Anglo-Saxon kind is simply the white and European adoption of Jesus as their Messiah for the majority of its recent history. Of course they're going to portray him in their own image, the same happened in Latin America, East Asia etc...

And relatedly, Achilles or any other character steeped in the lore of a culture being portrayed by an actor who cannot believably depict that figure, is an example of BBC sacrificing the Illiad's integrity for the sake of having a black lead character probably there to appeal to black British people. Why should people whose history lies in Africa, such as this actor, lay claim to one of the most well known heroes of western mythology?

'Why should Greek culture and famous Greek figures be considered Greek? It's a globalised world, anyone can lay claim to Greek history if they want'

I need only point you to this thread to show how many Greeks feel about their country.

[fkizz]

Depends on what is meant by light skin, but I've met plenty of Southern Europeans that are the same color as those guys.

It's the Mediterranean genetics. Roman Empire was mostly based on Mediterranean trade. Such cases end up happening.

Counting from the right, on Derpy Hooves pic 4th guy seriously looks like George Clooney.
Yet Clooney counts as "White" in US. But you have a middle eastern look-alike.

Tracking the root of White vs non-White was mostly to refer for the difference between Colonialists and Natives, between the Anglo Saxon and the Native.

'Why should Greek culture and famous Greek figures be considered Greek? It's a globalised world, anyone can lay claim to Greek history if they want'
I need only point you to this thread to show how many Greeks feel about their country.

If you can lay claim to any history on the globe then you have none. The whole point of having a history is to have some past in difference to other ethnic groups. If such a difference does not exist, then it's pointless.

And the thread you linked is no contradiction. Greek City states lived at war with each other (see Peloponnesian War), in fact the Unified Greece of today is the Odd thing, not the rivalry with other city states.

[Heathen Hammer]

If not for the connotations this would be as stupid (cringy) as arguing if an actor is too tall or too low, too much or too little muscled, too young or too old, etc.

Oh the audacity, someone thinks that actors should resemble characters they are playing!

Unfortunately some people still see the skin tone as a factor to be taken into account and as something intrinsic to certain cultures: Interestingly, someone has mentioned that the actor should be Greek, assuming that there are no Greek black people/actors.

I guess they should have a Boer play Mandela then!
But seriously, there was no evidence to believe that sub-Saharan Africans lived in Greece at the time of Troyan wars.

The attitudes shown in this discussion are a good reason to continue accepting black actors representing characters assumed as white. This is how the day will come when no one will see as scandalous, an insult to their culture (?) and history (god, we are not even talking about a documentary) that a black actor plays Achilles. (A mythological character, by the way).

You do realize that Achilles did actually exist, right? Of course much of his life is surrounded by myth, but most ancient sources agree that he did exist.
Also it is quite ironic, given how dumb producers' practice of virtue-signaling by casting minorities even if they look nothing like the characters they are supposed to play is causing literally an opposite effect, with direct/indirect attempt to ignore or distort history and heritage of many nations spark more interest to the subject matter.

[Elfdude]

I struggle to care about casting choices which give white roles to black actors.

[Prodromos]

1970s: Best music.
1980s: Best movies.
1990s: Best half-hour shows.
2000s: Best one-hour shows.
2010s: Feminist Ghostbusters, black ancient Europeans, boring politics and sex in everything. Bezmenov warned us about this!