Skin colour controversy and acting

[Kyriakos]

We wuz greeks




Nice video of a girl that claims it is reactionary to be dismissive of the new bbc Troy series due to Achilles, Patroklos, Zeus and whatever being played by black actors. Then tries to read one of the comments of those being against it, and thinks he speaks of a "Liliad"


:/ Seriously, ppl. Web access is basic by now, but how exactly can anyone -- anyone -- wish to make a video of this when they don't even know of the Iliad? Not all things have to be sjw.


Anyway, this new series seems set to bomb, and deserved to as well. Last but not least: Agamemnon is - of course - a run of the mill cockney gangster, probably sells smuggled cigarettes when not invading Asia Minor.

Posts moved from the Troy thread. ~Abdülmecid I

[athanaric]

Anyway, this new series seems set to bomb, and deserved to as well. Last but not least: Agamemnon is - of course - a run of the mill cockney gangster, probably sells smuggled cigarettes when not invading Asia Minor.

Seriously, I think it's OK for a stage play to use whatever actors they have at hand, resulting in black Achilles, Anglo-Saxon Agamemnon or other bizarre casting choices.
But a TV show or a movie, especially in the age of globalization (where everyone can watch it in real time from any place), should have some standards regarding historical authenticity at least. Any show that thinks it's a theatre production deserves to crash and burn.
I've long observed that cinema and TV have problems emancipating themselves from their roots in theatre and silent film and understanding the actual nature of their own medium, and this is another piece of evidence.

Maybe you Greeks should start beating the politically correct orthodoxy with its own weapons - insist that you're all "brown people" and claim "cultural appropriation".

[mishkin]

Oh no, the children will think that Achilles was black. The new drama after a generation that has grown up believing that Alexander was an Irishman dyed blond.

[Commissar Caligula_]

Oh no, the children will think that Achilles was black. The new drama after a generation that has grown up believing that Alexander was an Irishman dyed blond.

More like we've grown up thinking that Alexander had great big bushy eyebrows

[Ngugi]

I for one always known that Genghis Khan looked and sounded like the Duke.

[Kyriakos]

It is boring to have MLK or Malcolm X or whatever always played by black actors.
That said, i am not seeing how Achilles in 2018 is somehow making up for some american film many decades ago.
Furthermore, using black actors as greeks won't magically help anyone's life, while it - not magically at all - creates more trolling and a poor quality show.

[mishkin]

It is boring to have MLK or Malcolm X or whatever always played by black actors.

Let's take away from the black actors the few roles they can play: MLK, Malcolm X or the ghetto thug.

Have you ever heard that black people has been historically abused in the western society? Have you ever heard the story of the blacks who have been neglected, ridiculed or marginalized in the entertainment industry?

Some people, who at this point still do not understand what racism is (the belief in the superiority of one race over another), will accuse me of being racist (against the white race, always privileged in opposition to others in our society).

[athanaric]

Let's take away from the black actors the few roles they can play: MLK, Malcolm X or the ghetto thug.

Yes, because Blade, Black Panther, The Falcon, Luke Cage, Luther (the detective, not the religious leader), Spawn, Murtaugh, God, Mr Glass from Unbreakable, Red from The Shawshank Redemption, most of the cast of Glory, the titular heroes of Bad Boys, or the various other prominent roles black guys have played in American and British movies and TV (not to mention foreign media) in the last few decades are all "ghetto thugs". Yeah, that must be it. Obviously.

Have you ever heard that black people has been historically abused in the western society?

You mean, in ancient Greece or early Medieval Scandinavia?

Have you ever heard the story of the blacks who have been neglected, ridiculed or marginalized in the entertainment industry?

And?

Some people, who at this point still do not understand what racism is (the belief in the superiority of one race over another),

Phew, for a moment I thought you believed in the SJW definition of racism...

will accuse me of being racist (against the white race, always privileged in opposition to others in our society).

Darn. Guess that was expecting too much...

That said - "our society"? Wait, you mean we're all from your country?
Also, source?

[mishkin]

Hey, dont watch the show.

#BoycottTroy #BoycottRey #BoycottGoogle #BoycottEverythingNotWhiteAndPure

[athanaric]

Hey, dont watch the show.

Like you apparently didn't watch anything from Hollywood or any TV series from the last 60 years?

[mishkin]

Only a couple of years ago there were "protests" at the oscars ceremony. Entitled black actors, right? (Should we call them blackflakes? Like snowflakes but... well...you know).

[athanaric]

Only a couple of years ago there were "protests" at the oscars ceremony. Entitled black actors, right? (Should we call them blackflakes? Like snowflakes but... well...you know).

Yeah, some guys with the totally not racist slogan "Oscars so white". Also, since when are the Oscars a reliable indicator of quality or mass appeal?
But go on, dig yourself deeper. I'm sure that if you bothered to do the research, you'd find that black Americans are more than adequately represented in US entertainment, when it comes to the number or the diverse nature of the roles they play.

[Knight of Heaven]

Mass appeal certainly not, only or rare occasions, (nor mass appeal is a indicator of quality either).

And quality as dramatic performance goes, usually is the Oscars thing. So yes it is an indicator of dramatic performance quality in the universe of the films that are eligible for it.


Of course its not the whole universe of film making, still context and zone area wise, is a relevant indicator. It is a festival of the dramas, and of acting in dramas. Focused in the Anglo Saxon universe of film making. And that's it.

It might not interest you.. but that is another thing altogether.

Obviously there is a certain politicization in the Oscars, as it is in the arts in general, in the present, past, and probably the future. Again not a new phenomena nor is exclusive, Is an ancient thing, and like always it annoys some people in every era.

[HannibalExMachina]

Yeah, some guys with the totally not racist slogan "Oscars so white". Also, since when are the Oscars a reliable indicator of quality or mass appeal?
But go on, dig yourself deeper. I'm sure that if you bothered to do the research, you'd find that black Americans are more than adequately represented in US entertainment, when it comes to the number or the diverse nature of the roles they play.

whats adequately represented? also, its laughably obvious that they are not, so perhaps you wanna show us some data on this?

[Kyriakos]

Guys, the bbc could have used as many - or even more! - black actors in Troy, as long as they made them Memnon and his guard, etc. Really, at least Memnon of Asia is depicted as black in pottery art. He fought on the Trojan side, as an ally, and great warrior/leader.
This charade isn't even about filling racial quota; it is just about the bbc being lazy and trolling.

[HannibalExMachina]

well, if we werent cursed with bigoted reactionaries, there would be no need for affirmative action. so, you can thank thatcher for the BBC i guess

[Aexodus]

Lol

We wuz greeks

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Nice video of a girl that claims it is reactionary to be dismissive of the new bbc Troy series due to Achilles, Patroklos, Zeus and whatever being played by black actors. Then tries to read one of the comments of those being against it, and thinks he speaks of a "Liliad"


:/ Seriously, ppl. Web access is basic by now, but how exactly can anyone -- anyone -- wish to make a video of this when they don't even know of the Iliad? Not all things have to be sjw.


Anyway, this new series seems set to bomb, and deserved to as well. Last but not least: Agamemnon is - of course - a run of the mill cockney gangster, probably sells smuggled cigarettes when not invading Asia Minor.

Can I just say that in a video where she says 'Who has re-written history? Those who control the printing presses, the markets, and have basically taken over the world.'

Aaaand then she's already quoted ancient Homer in the same video

Also, did she really just say Europeans were black (in the sub-saharan sense) before neanderthals came along and interbred? In antiquity? Wow

[HannibalExMachina]

thats what we would consider pre-antiquity, but as the theory goes, homo sapiens sapiens came out of africa, so them being black is likely.

so, that doesnt apply to antiquity oc, but thats not the point. white people playing non-white roles is still common enough, and was the norm until not so long ago, so its rather hypocritcal to lose ones if its the other way round in a few cases.

[athanaric]

whats adequately represented?

Read the last sentence again.

also, its laughably obvious that they are not,

Lol. Try to watch some American TV shows and movies for a change. Hey, you could even count the percentage of black people in them. Pretty sure it's not below their actual percentage of the US population.

well, if we werent cursed with bigoted reactionaries, there would be no need for affirmative action.

So we need a racist policy implemented by the government to fight racism. Great argument. Kinda sounds like alt-Right logic.
Also, what does affirmative action have to do with the accurate portrayal of ancient myths or history?

thats what we would consider pre-antiquity, but as the theory goes, homo sapiens sapiens came out of africa, so them being black is likely. so, that doesnt apply to antiquity oc, but thats not the point.

Actually, that's not the point either. The point is that Neanderthals were there first. You do know that, right? Do they still teach pre-NS history in German schools?

white people playing non-white roles is still common enough, and was the norm until not so long ago, so its rather hypocritcal to lose ones if its the other way round in a few cases.

Did you miss the part where we, the "community" of people who care about historical accuracy etc., made fun of these castings? Who do you think you're talking to here?

[Aexodus]

Do you have any specific examples of black historical/legendary repute played by whites @HannibalExMachina?

The original Homo sapiens in Europe were not black Africans. Their ancestors may have been, but I doubt you'll someone like this walk off the street of Lagos

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

From the BBC of course http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-25885519