Makedon start discussion

[nvm]

What is your opinion on the opening moves? It appears to be one of the most difficult starts in the game, as after retaking Pella you are still stuck with debt, and Korinthos is highly likely to be targetted by either Pyrrhos or KH, resulting in you highly likely having to fight both. Meanwhile Pyrrhos is Pyrrhos and KH has a large amount of named characters whose bodyguards are like an elite unit in itself, and the garrison script will fire if you try to siege Athens. Thermon has 2 rebel stacks in it, Ambrakia has a garrison script as well, going north would involve fighting more rebel armies while also exposing your cities to danger. How would you make your way out of this without resorting to cheesy tactics? {including on the battlefield}

[Airos]

Here is how I did it. It's also pretty much how Antigonos did it in his time.

I use the fleet to ship the pirate guy in Korinthos.
Antigonos shoule take Pella as soon as possible. I kept some money to build the government building in Pella, the rest went in recruitment (you need at least some javelin units to deal with the Elephants).
Use the fleet to ship his army (now full stack) to Korinthos.

Pyrrhos and his full stack should be sieging the city by now. Attack him with Antigonos army and the large garrison.
For this battle, you have to focus the War elephants with your javelin units. It doesn't take much for the Elephants to go berserk.
Keep Antigonos and the Xystophoroi/Thessalian in reserve and strike at Pyrrhos after he charged your melee units.
The morale shock from his death is usually sufficient to send his elite army in route.


After that... you can either rush Sparte or, more likely, ship Antigonos to Demetrias which should be sieged by the greeks.

The Greeks do have very good infantry units but they have poor cavalry and skirmisher units. As a result, your cavalry have very little opposition against them. Hammer and Anvil work really well. Nothing can resist a few charge of Thessalians in the back. These guys are amazing by the way, way better than Heitaroi in my games.

Destroy the sieging army in Demetras and siege Athenai.
After that, take Sparte if you didn't snatch it before.

In my game, Both Rhodos and Krete rebelled so KH didn't bother me. Epeiros will take a while to recover, and they also have to deal with Rome.
With now five cities you can consolidate, go back in the green money wise and rebuild Pella.

[HarkonRules]

Cheers for the neat little guide Airos, I was also curious about this. Makedon start was easy before, but I still haven't played Makedon in 2.3 as the starting situation intimidated me enough to give other factions a try, now I just might.

[nvm]

UI have ultimately managed to prevail in Greece as Makedon, however I feel this start is incredibly unforgiving for any mistakes and I've had to rip and tear my way from the jaws of literal defeat by utilizing the cheesiest Total War tactics such as abusing cavalry charge and retreat to the max in order to break the enemies, continuing battle and "ransoming" the enemy so they get enslaved without the penalty, {Did Greeks even enslave other Greeks outside of Sparta?} consciously striking at weaker forces. My fatal mistake was deciding to spend 2 turns to siege Sparta to build more siege equipment when I should have been protecting Demetrias. I tried to split my forces to relieve the siege, but I only sent a captain and for some reason the sally did not include him as reinforcements while only attacking with the captain would include the city, but I did not think a captain with only 2 cavalry units could break 3 units of Epilektoi Hoplitai and 2 generals before they would break him.

It did not help that KH hired out almost all the mercenaries they could, giving them actual cavalry support. I should probably have hired them first myself.

This is probably the most challenge I've had in EB2. And all it took was a faction with actually good primary units and one that could afford to have a general in every battle. It was almost perfect. Unfortunately I don't think it's going to last, with 13 battles in 15 turns, I feel I either take Athens when I can, or die. And after that I'll probably be pretty powerful really soon.

Also, Epeiros had been getting out Hypastpistai and elite Agema along with siege engines out of their capital and targetting me which is kinda freaky.

[Kull]

Yeah, Greece is a real mosh pit in v2.3 - paradoxically involving three factions that had few substantive changes from v2.2. Yet a complete revision of the starting set-up along with new scripts has transformed what was once a "ho hum" beginning into something that really makes you work. And best of all, it simulates the historical reality of this period pretty well. I (and others) spent a lot of time testing and tweaking different parameters, and the final result is definitely a challenge for all three factions.

[Palaiogos]

I mean, Epeiros is easy to subdue, but Koinon Hellenon on the other hand... That's the problem.

[Sar1n]

I've just taken a few turns, to see the stuff. Odd...Ambrakia doesn't have garrisson script? My plan was to avoid KH, hit Pell and Ambrakia simultaneously, then make my way south through Athens, hoping that KH and Epeiros weaken each other in the meantime. Thing is...I built full stack to attack Ambrakia, but it turned out to have less than half stack after laying siege.

[QuintusSertorius]

I've just taken a few turns, to see the stuff. Odd...Ambrakia doesn't have garrisson script? My plan was to avoid KH, hit Pell and Ambrakia simultaneously, then make my way south through Athens, hoping that KH and Epeiros weaken each other in the meantime. Thing is...I built full stack to attack Ambrakia, but it turned out to have less than half stack after laying siege.

Could it have been triggered by someone else already? Note the garrison script only adds up to 10 units.

[Sar1n]

Could it have been triggered by someone else already? Note the garrison script only adds up to 10 units.

I laid siege to it on turn 3, so doubtful.

[nvm]

Yeah, Greece is a real mosh pit in v2.3 - paradoxically involving three factions that had few substantive changes from v2.2. Yet a complete revision of the starting set-up along with new scripts has transformed what was once a "ho hum" beginning into something that really makes you work. And best of all, it simulates the historical reality of this period pretty well. I (and others) spent a lot of time testing and tweaking different parameters, and the final result is definitely a challenge for all three factions.

So what's the envisioned playstyle for Makedon? Are you supposed to let your rivals in Greece survive for a while or crush them quickly? If one aims to attempt to reclaim Alexander's empire, would it be supposed to be as fast as he did it, {within lifetime of a general} or would you have to go slower?

[HarkonRules]

Hah, you're definitely supposed to crush your rivals quickly and decisively at least within the borders of Phillip II of Macedon's reign upon his death. Pyrrhos and his henchmen are an absolute priority, closely followed by bringing the Greek cities back to Macedonian control in the form of puppet tyrants and governments, as well as decisively holding back the barbarians from the North and Northeast. Historically Ptolemy's Egypt was a big pain in the ass for Antigonos and kept meddling in Greece, trying to thwart his power and influence over the Greek city-states in various ways. In a Macedon game I'd punish this with vanquishing them for good as soon as I stabilized the old borders of the Macedonian kingdom and its sphere of influence.

[nvm]

Oh, by the way, a weird thing happened during my playthrough. I sent Antigonos to attack Ambrakia, but the last Epeirote FM attacked him and died in battle so it turned rebel. However, even in rebel hands, the city had low public order so Epirotes rose up again without getting Ambrakia back. The next turn I, worried about the possibility of more stacks spawning somehow, seized Ambrakia, and the game crashed on Epirote turn afterwards. Thankfully it did not happen again after reloading.

[QuintusSertorius]

I laid siege to it on turn 3, so doubtful.

I just checked the garrison script for Ambrakia, and it doesn't look any different to the others.