Gaming Staff Announcement / Statement

[Dismounted Feudal Knight]

To address a root issue of current events, I'd propose that the term 'newblood' be treated as a general name and type of hotseat that appeals to new players in general, rather than being a staff monopoly to describe a certain form of game. I've already seen newblood, youngblood and oldblood be used as general terms.

That is, anyone could create a Newblood game, as it would simply be treated as a game that is designed for new players, as compared to Newblood having a sort of TWC Trademark to it that makes Gaming Staff the only ones able to post it.

A distinction would remain between GS hosted (possibly with a prefix?) and games set up by members.

[Mergor]

The problem is not with the rules, at least not in main. (We figure out those ourselfs anyway). The problem is not with games. (Not if we make any hotseat game we want). The problem is not with the admins as GameStaff in main is liked and respected (However some, and I won't name anyone, could say you need to step down as a director, but I guess thats not up for debate either?)

The problem is not with things we can change. The problem is what we can't change, the structure, and those that are "not up to debate".

Don't worry though. I won't make any more comments about this (I won't "derail"), and I won't expect you to answer either. But you have to understand our real problem.

edit: What Commodus says is also a "not up to debate" thing, a monopoly on a name. It is part of what I said also.

[SoulGamesInc]

it's one of our demands.

Demands? This is a discussion thread for raising concerns and suggesting improvements in a civil manner ArBo, not a place for mob justice to cause damage while exiting the stage in a huff. You'll find 'demands' will get you nowhere. The majority have acted civil and I would hate for the few to spoil that by continuing to repetitively sing the same tune. If this thread descends to an echo chamber, it will be closed.

I will not say this again. I expect civil and level-headed suggestions on improvements to the community, not demands for things I cannot discuss nor alternative separating.

I'd propose that the term 'newblood' be treated as a general name and type of hotseat

That's already the case. Always has been. The thread in question was quite free to create a practically identical game, just couldn't continue numerically from it's predecessors title.

[AdmiralThrawn]

OK, if you really want suggestions not related to the player that shall not be *******ed, it seems wrong to shut down a Hotseat due to conflict over branding. I get why it couldn't be called "[OFFICIAL]" or anything, and I understand the argument for why "Newbloods" is a GS term. That being said, Jadli insists that he was ready to change the name to something else. If this is correct, what reason was there to shut down the Hotseat?

Shutting down Hotseats seems like a bad business to be in, especially considering that I can never seem to get into one before it's full...

Now, back "off topic" (aka, the whole point of this thread):
You're telling us that "Hex's decisions are final", "Hex's decisions cannot be questioned", "Hex's decisions cannot be elaborated on". Could Hex come here and say that himself? If he truly feels that this decision is final (a perfectly valid position), and that it can no longer be debated (a less valid position, but fine), then I'll accept that. However, for the moment we're just taking your word for it, from someone who seems deeply emotionally involved in this whole situation. I think if Hex came here, made it clear that we've been listened to, and that on further consideration the decision still stands, I think that would satisfy a lot of us.

[SoulGamesInc]

Could Hex come here and say that himself?

Hex is a role Thrawn. They act as administrators of the site. If I was lying, they'd fire me. As to if they could say something that would be their decision to make, but they'd say no different than I, considering (as with a great many important things) such decisions were ran through them. They don't do anything without a mountain of paperwork, evidence and debate between themselves.

[ArBo]

I think I didn't make myself clear there Soul, one must forgive a non-native speaker for not always grasping the more subtle of connotations a word has. When I said "demand" I meant it was something we wanted, something a lot of the people moving away consider to be vital if they are to reconsider. That automatically makes it relevant and on-topic.
Apart from this slight lapse of the tongue, my message remains the same. If we are to find a real solution both sides will eventually need to make concessions, and nothing should be taboo in this discussion thread.

"Damaging TWC on the way out" is the last thing I want - I want to stay, if at all possible. Please also note that nothing I say here should be conceived of as a threat, but rather as my legitimate opinion and as what I think to be a realistic version of the near future.

[Macrath]

What have you done!

OH GOD WOULD SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!

[Gimli]

There are two options.

Option A - Un-Ban Jadli under strict stipulations. All members return without conflict, ect ect ect ect. Changes in GS are made so that main is run by a solid group of people under the oversight of the Director/Deputy Director. Community is back together, somewhat. All HS Threads are remade GS (current game saves are used), old/inactive games are archived, main is reorganized into Warhammer, TES, SS, and Vanilla (Sub-Sections). Numerous other changes, blah blah blah.

Option B - Jadli remains banned, members leave TWC to go join the other "forum". Westeros becomes the lead for Hotseating, grow that out dramatically and improve population there then look to grow out General HS but it will never be nearly as active. Westeros will likely thrive as new releases of ADOS sub mods, ect by Parafix and Soul come out.

EDIT:

The Hex's/GS bite the bullet and unban Jadli keeping the community playerbase together, or risk losing a large portion of an already dwindling population. The choice is up to them entirely.

[SoulGamesInc]

nothing should be taboo in this discussion thread. "Damaging TWC on the way out" is the last thing I want - I want to stay, if at all possible. Please also note that nothing I say here should be conceived of as a threat, but rather as my legitimate opinion and as what I think to be a realistic version of the near future.

I'd love to be able to tell you all about everything I've had to deal with in the last 4/5 years as Gaming Staff. I'd love to, as it would be a lot easier to explain the sheer validity of events. I simply cannot do this; as I am bound by Staff Regulations and Nondisclosure and etc. This is why I say the Hex matter is not up for debate. I cannot debate it. I cannot change it, even if I wanted to. Thus discussing it here... isn't going to solve a thing..

I accept the language difficulties, from personal experience I know that can be difficult. Still I cannot do more on that matter than assure it was done with all legitimacy. It wont be changed here.

There are two options. Option A / Option B

Option A is not happening. I'm sorry, but it isn't. I couldn't give anyone that even if I wanted to.

[AdmiralThrawn]

Hex is a role Thrawn. They act as administrators of the site. If I was lying, they'd fire me. As to if they could say something that would be their decision to make, but they'd say no different than I, considering (as with a great many important things) such decisions were ran through them. They don't do anything without a mountain of paperwork, evidence and debate between themselves.

OK, but my point is it feels like our requests aren't being taken seriously, and no decent explanation is being given. I don't think you're lying, but your involvement in the affair does color your credibility to moderate a discussion of it. The Player That Must Not Be Named has always seemed to be a good member of the Hotseat community, and my interactions with him have been nothing but positive. With you stonewalling us, it makes me feel more and more like his explanation is the correct one.

PS: So he could create an identical thread, but could he edit the existing one? His complaint was specifically that you wouldn't let him.

Edit:

This is why I say the Hex matter is not up for debate. I cannot debate it. I cannot change it, even if I wanted to. Thus discussing it here... isn't going to solve a thing.

Even if that's the case (and decisions made by people are never entirely unchangeable), that doesn't justify threatening to close a thread for discussing it. At the very least, it can be healthy to air our dirty laundry and know that we've been heard.

[Dismounted Feudal Knight]

Option A is not happening. I'm sorry, but it isn't. I couldn't give anyone that even if I wanted to.

Would it be conceivable, if posed to members of Hex directly?

[SoulGamesInc]

With you stonewalling us

I decided (liking scaring the hell out of Moderation staff) to allow this open discourse in light of all the chinese whispers, so I'd hardly say I'm 'stonewalling' anyone. I am also not able to pick and choose what rules to follow or when. I am bound by staff regulations. I can only say what I can to assure people that nothing is done without a whole lot of due process and that the ultimate decision on such a thing, isn't solely Mine.

Any thoughts on my point regarding just renaming the thread?

The host was told he was free to create what could've easily been a practically identical game. GS doesn't own mods, only the subsequent titles of 'official' series. To give an example for you: Brad runs the Staff Midblood II game but quits Staff afterwards, he cannot go on to continue the series with Midblood III. That would be confusing, and prevent Staff from continuing that series with rewards; that non-staff cant offer.

that doesn't justify threatening to close a thread for discussing it

If it spirals into a uncivilized echo-chamber with no progress and a 'debate' that simply cannot be debated, then the thread would serve no purpose. I can and would close it. So let's keep it on track.

Would it be conceivable, if posed to members of Hex directly?

Hex made the final decision based on the evidence and pushed the button for valid reasons. I'm afraid not, no. There is ofc nothing stopping you from asking them.

[ArBo]

We're aware that the decision has been made, and that there probably were reasons - valid or otherwise - to do so. You must agree, however, that this is at least somewhat of an unconventional circumstance, in which for the greater good changes to decisions made previously might be possible.

[SoulGamesInc]

You must agree, however, that this is at least somewhat of an unconventional circumstance

Having been apart of the 'circumstances' and privy to the general behavior for what has been frankly far longer than any of you may think I can say without so much as flinching that there has been nothing unconventional about it and I don't agree that changes would (even in light of the raucous) do anything but make things worse in the long run. I'd be very interested however to hear exactly what you've been told that you deem unconventional.

[ArBo]

Most of main leaving does it for unconventional, IMO.

[SoulGamesInc]

That's an effect, not a cause. I'm afraid Hex are not liable to be cowed by threats of leaving; nor am I. If that's the only thing brought to the table there simply isn't more to discuss here.

[ArBo]

It's not a threat, it's a fact. The question is, are you willing to consider options out of your comfort zone to reverse it, or not.

[SoulGamesInc]

I'm privy to all the evidence and I wouldn't change the decision even if I could, that I cannot. I cant debate the matter but to repeat everything I've said already and the moment this thread becomes an echo-chamber for the same dull tone is the moment it'll be closed as redundant. I've no desire to do that but if you've nothing new to say then please go elsewhere, because at that stage your not contributing.

[Dismounted Feudal Knight]

Everyone can feel free to continue, I guess. At this point, I don't see reconciliation or repair, and having bounced between this for a bit too long, it's plain that no continued conversation in this thread will change the core circumstances. But, it's up to individuals to fling words until the moon goes green.

Might as well start with the rebuilding, as the repair is done for. There's a few years off hotseat's ultimate survivability.

[LordPureLegacy]

I am not gonna bother to read all these posts mainly because its all gonna be the same . I have only been here four around six months and personally I have not gotten involved with soul or westeros specifically. This is my opinion on administration not this one but just any administration.

First let me just state this whole forum is based on a game we all have a liking to. I say any leader of a staff or group must stay neutral when they can at all times and when they have problems with their staff or co workers they need to immediately resolve it in a peaceful matter. On Soul's comment "I am not gonna respond to whenever someone is asking me in an angry way or accusation" (don't quote me on that) it is always gonna be like that and regardless you need to answer it to avoid any argument not just let them stay mad and do whatever. Soul specifically when your making announcements you need to make it formal not use any alliterations or such to describe what has happen such as "people following someone's crusade".

I could care less what jadli says about GS or particularly just soul its one man's opinion but when there is multiple people that have had experience over the years on the website that is when your authority is questioned and you need to resolve it not just say "whatever they will be replaced" you can't replace a generation or two. I honestly think its stupid to demand anything from starting the new forum you only need to get more involved with your GS make them feel like they can talk freely to you, you need to represent as a group such as this announcement rather than just one person. I hear para says I can get soul to do something to GS or whatever I don't know if its true but if it is then thats not appropriate to make a friend feel like they can make you do anything to your co workers. I appreciate all the work GS has done and such making mods and hosting hotseats or whatever but at the end of the day its a game and a website nothing has to be done secretly, comments are one thing constant talk of happening is another. You guys can ramble all day you want about administration but its always the same get over your ing opinions and do what is best as a whole this is suppose to be fun not a rant let their be two forums nobody needs to feel like they have to pick a side, I personally will be continuing on both so as I heard from others say.

Stop the continuous posting its not going nowhere just make a decision as a whole and focus on what is best for the community not just as a whole but for every player.