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Thread: How do I make a faction join The Empire as a client state?

  1. #1

    Default How do I make a faction join The Empire as a client state?

    I am posting exactly the same question in a number of forums, but these are different mods:

    EB 1.31c (RTW1-ALEX)
    EB 2.3 (MTW2-KINGDOMS)
    RS 3.1 (RTW1-ALEX)

    MY RESUME

    I am not trying to impress anyone. I just want you know where I am at and what I know.

    (1) I have never played the stock game.
    (2) I have been playing the DMR 9.01.
    (3) I have won the long campaign as Julii hard/hard

    I have watched lots of history documentaries and college lectures regarding the period as a result of wanting to understand the period better.

    OBSERVATION

    The Romans did not simply conquer through killing/enslaving every last member of an enemy faction. Sometimes, they did like Carthage. But for other times, they engaged factions militarily giving them the option "We can do this the easy way or the hard way." They did this with Britannia and Germannia, but failed mainly due to bad governance. (But it might have worked.)

    QUESTION

    Is it possible to add a faction to The Empire without taking every province by battling every army and laying siege to every settlement? Is there build path of buildings for a single province which will turn a faction into a client state? I have spoken to Saul Tyre (my expert on mods, but he doesn't really play The Romans). So, is this possible? (he believes it is) And if so, what are the mechanics?

    Thank you.

  2. #2

    Default Re: How do I make a faction join The Empire as a client state?

    RTW is not like M2TW, they are different engines.

    What you're asking about, I think, is vassalage. When you are at war with a faction, in the diplomacy screen you do have the option to make them a protectorate. However, unless you use Force Diplomacy (click on the "?" button when you've set a proposal), the AI will almost always reject it.
    It began on seven hills - a historical house-ruled Romani AAR
    Heirs to Lysimachos - a semi-historical Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR
    Philetairos' Gift - a second attempt at an Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  3. #3

    Default Re: How do I make a faction join The Empire as a client state?

    Quote Originally Posted by MeiguoJinjang View Post
    Is there build path of buildings for a single province which will turn a faction into a client state? I have spoken to Saul Tyre (my expert on mods, but he doesn't really play The Romans). So, is this possible? (he believes it is) And if so, what are the mechanics?
    When you capture province you can build client government there, recruit client ruler to govern that province and then upgrade government to oligarchy or democracy. A province with client government will get high unrest if you place your own general inside as governor.

    If you don't like to conquest everyone you can buy settlements from other factions and install client government there. Price is usually somewhere around 50 000- 60 000.

    From what I know there are few required factors, which are needed for a faction to become your vassal:
    Power - theiy must be weak, the attacker must have superior power.
    Money - they must have coffers empty. Blocade ports and roads, devastate lands, besiege settlements.
    Relations - if you execute prisoners, enslave or sack settlements, fought them for decades or you had bad relations to start with they will never accept, but if you keep releasing prisoners and fight only defensive battles, they might accept.
    Skilled diplomat - I hope, but I never noticed a change when I tried to make the same proposal with different diplomats.
    I think culture is also a factor. So It would be very hard to get vassal from other culture.

    I never really paid attention to client states, but I think I will try to get some in next campaign.
    Last edited by YourMadDoc; January 09, 2018 at 02:35 PM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: How do I make a faction join The Empire as a client state?

    I often pay no more than 20 000, generally 10 000 to buy a city. I call it the "cheat expansion", it is easy and rares are the factions who don't want to sell you their city (even large one) for that price. It happens that they ask more, but in that case they often ask an impossible amount.

    To the OP :

    What you can do if you want to do it your way (quite an historical way too) is this :

    - Present a whole army at the gate of a faction, idealy the capital. Maybe even two or three armies. What you can do.
    - Initiate diplomatic actions with this faction
    - Propose them exactly what you asked here : "give us this city" with "or we will attack".
    - You may want to give a bit money for the trouble (Romans did that too... )


    When bought, you will be able to create two sorts of government in the city.
    + Military occupation
    + Pupet government

    The pupet goverment is this : you control the city and everything that is in it but only through a general (not a family member, a general who will be created through the gov building) who is supposed to be a local leader who is a "friend of Rome".
    When you are tired of having this pupet gov', just destroy the gov, remove the local leader and create a "Military occupation" building for a more permanent and more agressive occupation.

    Example :

    You are Rome. You want Epirus has Rhegion and Capua. Rhegion is the capital of Epirus.

    You send 3 legions around Rhegion.
    You send a a diplomate to Capua.
    You ask through you diplomate to give you Capua or you will attack.
    Affraid, Epirus accepts but they would prefer you pay them 5000 mnai for the trouble.
    You accept, you have now Capua.
    You create a pupet government with a local guy, a friend of yours you know since a long time. He is a "friend of Rome", will levy armies for you, will manage Capua for you, and will tell everyone he is working for Capua alone, not for you. It is a lie.
    10 years later, the city of Capua become unstable, you want more money coming from there too. You give your friend a nice domus in Rome, and you send a proconsul to Capua managing the city in the name of Rome.
    People of Capua are stirred by the news, they may even try to rebel so you send a big garrison to show Capua who is the boss.

    The Senate and the People of Rome are admiring your work and your renewed influence, and the light of Rome you directed toward the south.
    You are a hero.

    Note that Rome managed to expand it's influence in numerous ways, not only this.
    - Direct assault
    - Diplomatic transactions (buying regions)
    - "Help" brought against a party (gaul, hellenic world...)
    - Luck, managing to be the will of a king (Pergamon)
    - Diplomatic machinations ("I am the judge of your war... Ok, you lose, you lose too, I win !")
    - I leave you to your imagination.

    A lot of those features are possible in game. If not, you still have the "force diplomacy" option.

    Take care, Citizen.


  5. #5

    Default Re: How do I make a faction join The Empire as a client state?

    Usually the only way I have been to get a faction to become vassal in M2TW/Kingdoms is to reduce it to its final settlement, siege it with an overwhelming force and then offer the vassal option to one of their diplomats. The AI usually accepts as the other option is faction destruction. All that will give you however is just a boost to the income. The vassal faction will stay within its borders, building up stacks whenever it gets money from the script that bails out bankrupt AI factions (some portion of this money goes to you) and will never ever do anything to help you against your enemies. However, if one of your allies attacks the vassal, your alliance will be automatically broken.

    It is probably easier and more beneficial to simply destroy small factions and take over their last city.

  6. #6

    Default Re: How do I make a faction join The Empire as a client state?

    Quote Originally Posted by MeiguoJinjang View Post
    QUESTION

    Is it possible to add a faction to The Empire without taking every province by battling every army and laying siege to every settlement? Is there build path of buildings for a single province which will turn a faction into a client state? I have spoken to Saul Tyre (my expert on mods, but he doesn't really play The Romans). So, is this possible? (he believes it is) And if so, what are the mechanics?
    Others have already answered this in more detail, but yes, you can do both:

    1) Direct Vassals: Must be at war with the opposing faction. Contact them with a diplomat to open the Diplomacy Window. Select "Become a vassal" from the "Make Demand" set of choices and then choose "Accept or we will attack" from the "Make Offer" choices. Next click the "?" button in the top right of the diplomacy window and only then click the "Make Offer" button at the bottom of the window. The AI will accept your offer and become your vassal.

    2) Client State: All factions have access to the "Allied State" set of governments. When you conquer a new province, first build the "Tributary State" (relatively cheap and takes 2 turns) and next build the "Allied State". This is very inexpensive and only takes 1 turn. Once it is built, immediately recruit the specialized unit that it makes available, which will appear in one turn as your "Client Governor" (basically a "General Unit", complete with traits, ancillaries, and all the rest). While there is only one "governor unit" per building, the governor will be "culture appropriate" in name and armament to that region. At this point the Gov buildings split into two lines, one for Oligarchs and the other for Democracies (you can choose either path), the primary difference being the sorts of units one can recruit (all of which are local and appropriate to the region). All in all, the system is very nuanced and definitely NOT "the same as" your faction government choices.
    EBII Council

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