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Thread: Revising shield values - taking into account the material out of which they are made of

  1. #1

    Default Revising shield values - taking into account the material out of which they are made of

    While playing my current campaign I've noticed that Iranian spearmen have the shield value of 7, while hoplites have shield value of 6. Granted, the Iranian spearmen shield is bigger, however, it appears from the look of the textures used for it, that it is made of something like thick basket weaving placed on top of a wooden frame, while hoplite's shield is made of bronze. Basket weaving type of shield doesn't have the durability of the bronze one and this isn't taken into an account.

    Therefore, I suggest to the mod team to recalculate shield values on the basis of "shield value = shield area x material modifier" formula, where "material modifier" would increase from leather, basket weaving, wood, reinforced wood and bronze. Something like 0.4, 0.7, 1, 1.2 and 1.5 respectively.

    Cheers.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Revising shield values - taking into account the material out of which they are made of

    Hoplite shields aren't made out of bronze. They are made of wood. SOME may be covered with a thin sheet of bronze on the side facing the enemy. To my knowledge, the team did factor in both thickness and material into the defense rating provided by shields.
    Last edited by Rad; January 04, 2018 at 06:00 PM.
    I recommend a pugio rather than a spear, because in close quarters combat, a dagger will serve you better than a spear.

    Rad, 2016.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Revising shield values - taking into account the material out of which they are made of

    Except that those iranian reed shields were much more effective at stopping arrows, and shield values in M2TW (if it is like RTW) counts double from the front against missiles. So i think it is a deliberate choice to make the iranian spearmen resistant to arrows. The hoplite has the armour value to be way tougher in melee.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Revising shield values - taking into account the material out of which they are made of

    Quote Originally Posted by Rad View Post
    Hoplite shields aren't made out of bronze. They are made of wood. SOME may be covered with a thin sheet of bronze on the side facing the enemy. To my knowledge, the team did factor in both thickness and material into the defense rating provided by shields.
    Alright, thick wooden shield plated with bronze, still far more sturdier material than what textures suggest for the shield Iranian spearmen use, and hoplon isn't small either. It looks to me that material out of which shield had been made wasn't taken into account by the mod team, but its area only. Hoplites should have higher shield value than Iranian spearmen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenikon
    Except that those iranian reed shields were much more effective at stopping arrows, and shield values in M2TW (if it is like RTW) counts double from the front against missiles. So i think it is a deliberate choice to make the iranian spearmen resistant to arrows. The hoplite has the armour value to be way tougher in melee.
    I think that in M2TW the shield value which melee attack see, is the same for missile attack too, depending only on direction of it. The difference between the two is that missile attack doesn't see defensive skill, while melee one from the front does. But missile attack accounts for missile unit's accuracy, thus decreasing the effectiveness of ranged attack.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Revising shield values - taking into account the material out of which they are made of

    1. The idea that all the Greek hoplite shields would be covered with bronze doesn't hold up well. Plating a shield in bronze would cost some, so I imagine that only a minority would be covered in bronze. Translated into the game, the rich and the professionals should be/are equipped with such shields.
    2. Shield planks aren't really thick. Well, not the ones I am trying to learn about. Protection is achieved through layering. Plank+glue+hide= sturdy shield.
    3. A shield doesn't need to be indestructible. As with all kit, its job is to get you alive through the fight, not to be passed on to the grandkids. Making the shield or any other piece of equipment thicker and heavier than needed is only going to decrease effectiveness.

    I will research this some more and get back to you.
    Last edited by Rad; January 05, 2018 at 04:54 PM.
    I recommend a pugio rather than a spear, because in close quarters combat, a dagger will serve you better than a spear.

    Rad, 2016.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Revising shield values - taking into account the material out of which they are made of

    A reed shield was a lot different from, say, a wicker basket. Have you ever sat in a rattan chair? Reed shield may have been cheap but their construction involved several inch-thick layers of whicker with cured ox hide stretched over the face, more than capable of stopping a full-strength spear thrust. An added benefit was that bladed weapons would actual stick a few inches and be very difficult to pull back out. The violin was certainly strong and I'm sure there is a lot of debate on the subject still, but my opinion is that the lighter more flexbible persian build was just as good if not better. Cheers!

  7. #7

    Default Re: Revising shield values - taking into account the material out of which they are made of

    Hoplon* not violin lol

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