How the Hell do I win these Historical Battles?

[Town Watch]

Ive tried Agincourt for 5 times and I always lose. My d-english knights are eaten to about half strenght by the first wave of d-chivalrcic knights. When the second wave comes, I can't break them in time to kill the rear attacking cavalry. I put 2 heavy bill units against them but they were decimated in 3 seconds My flank archer units are always attacked by the knights and they die. Ive also tried flanking the chivalrics centre with my yeoman archers but they die just as easily. When I tried to flank the chivalrics with my king, the mouted knights oddly reformed and rear charged me.

I looked at youtube how people played this battle but it didn't help. Any tips?

This is a bit embarrasing, since I have won many harder battles in RTW, BI and also the M2TW campaign. I fought my latest Agincourt attempt to the last man, one of King Henry's bodyguards, while he himself fell second last.

[lilolee]

Agincourt - Let the Yeoman fire at will, make the 3 units of Knights at the front Guard position, move the 2 units of Billmen and spare Knights turn to face the on coming reinforcements and Guard position. The Yeoman near these may need to be used as reinforcements. King Henry maybe needed in either position. Just don't panic and don't chase after them, rely on the Longbows.

Pavia _ This time you can't rely on firepower, so to win this I basically send all of my troops after the French King. This usually works 2 out 3 attempts. Then start cleaning up, but carefully in marching order, although I usually do send the Knights after the gun emplacement.

More to come I guess.

Cheers

Lee

[lilolee]

Otumba - Pull all of your troops up to the mound to your right and guard it. Hang on for dear life until your reinforcements arrive who should be sent to relieve you if needed or to go after their General. Very touch and go this one and I've lost as many as I've won.

Hastings - Do as it says attack the left flank with a couple of spear units and retreat back a bit. Do this until they start to break for you and then attack with a few more units, but not all. As more Saxons break to your left, push the remaining spear up at Harold and try to flank with the remaining Cavalry. Patients is required here, but as long as you are you will win. Pick off the remaining guard with flaming arrows, it's fun watching them burn.

Cheers

Lee

[Town Watch]

Thanks! The agincourt battle looked deceptively easy from video, but I screwed it up big time. I think I once tried to just play it calm, succesfully flanking their d-knights with all my combat units, but I still somehow lost the battle.

Darn I lost my Egyptian Jihad army in my campaign today aswell, I landed on the shores of Constantinople, my target, but there was french crusader army nearby for the crusade of Jerusalem which was currently my city, a full stack one ofcourse.

I decided to try decimating them, but one of their crusader knights and crusader sergeants first killed my general when I charged all my cavalry to his flank, when my comp started lagging and then the mass rout became.

The pilgrims just killed my dismounted arab cavalry from downhill.

[Town Watch]

Damnation. I lost again at Agincourt. Then I tried Pavia for the first time and beat it easily. I also beat Tannenberg. Strange that I read from another gaming forum that the Agincourt one was easier than Pavia, actually Pavia is drop dead easy, I only lost about 150 men.

Pavia was a cool battle indeed, all the good things I can imagine, italian countryside, beautiful sunset, fullplate zweihanders, dead frenchmen, maybe even beautiful italian women and tasty food for the victors.



Back to the daunting Agincourt...
I broke the first d-chivalric knights wave easily, and the second one wasnt a problem too, since I withdrew all my flank archers and flanked the d-french with my billmen.

Then as usual the reinforcements charge and decimate my 2 bill- and d-englishknights units, aswell as the archers in the left flank. I ordered all my archers to shoot at the miniforce commander D'Albret guy, and also engaged the foot king's unit in the flank with my full strenght bill unit.

The third d-chivalric knights wave is engaged in the centre and they kill all my d-english knights and advance towards my king unit. The billmen fail to make a dent to the Maigret(?) guy's unit and all the longbowmen start to shoot those lobshots at D'Albret which fail to kill but 2 bodyguards. Then the mounted chivalrics kill Henry. I almost got the D'Albret guy, but he hid in the midst of approximately 200 d-chivalric knights.

[Spiff]

Hmm it must have changed from the demo then, that was winnable without issuing a single order

What you could always try is retreating your army to the top of the massive cliff directly behind you, putting the archers on the top then a line of men infront..

[Town Watch]

Hmm it must have changed from the demo then, that was winnable without issuing a single order

What you could always try is retreating your army to the top of the massive cliff directly behind you, putting the archers on the top then a line of men infront..

Well I'm playing the updated version with darthmod lite, maybe the rearguard french cavalry was too bugged to kill anything.
The french didn't now even flich when I started pounding them with bodkin. They just came, saw and killed my poor englishknights. I did ofcourse have a wrong type of processor so I couldn't run the demo on my comp when it came. Surely this must be somehow beatable even at the set up defencelines.

[Padakid]

Try using this
The Real Facts on Englands Formation during the battle.

English adopted their usual battle line of longbowmen on either flank, men-at-arms and knights in the centre, and at the very centre roughly 200 archers. The English men-at-arms in plate and mail were placed shoulder to shoulder four deep. The English archers on the flanks drove pointed wooden stakes called palings into the ground at an angle to force cavalry to veer off.

[lilolee]

Still sounds like you are being too reactive in Agincourt. The only units that you need to manage are the 2 Billmen and one Knights at the back, and use Henry as reserves to bolster the rear or front.

If you pull the Yeoman away from your left flank they cant damage the wave of French enough and you will get swamped.

I haven't lost Agincourt. Is there a FAQ on how to post a replay onto YouTube?

Cheers

Lee

[Town Watch]

I tried it again with better success. First waves were easily repelled, I didn't lose very many troops. The archers fired at will. Then I turned king henry and 2 bill-, and 1 d-englisknights units to kill D'Albret. I killed him pretty early and turned my attention to the centre fights and also the french mainforce commander. I lost 1 bill unit, 1 longbowmen, and 1 d-englishknights unit completely fighting the rear cavalry.

I didn't move any archers or other units, thus 1 longbowmen unit was annihilated by the mounted knights and one was killed to half by the d-knights on the right flank.

2/3 of my remaining archers were drawn to melee, because of the french numbers and they didn't shoot for half the battle.

My centre was killed to about 15 men in total and almost full general's unit.
Then I managed to kill the Maingret guy and most of the french fighting me fled.

I had 1 badly suffered bill unit, 3 very badly suffered longbowunits and the general. Then I was suddenly charged by 3 full d-chivalric knights and full 2 sergeant spearmen, who regrouped, even when their both generals died 5 minutes ago.

All my combat units died, archers were also all killed, and king henry was surrounded by all those french units, and finally fell as the last man of his unit. I killed over a thousend of them, but again I lost.

:smileybri Yay!

[Sher Khan]

Here's what you do in Agincourt:

Do not set your front line units to defensive mode. This will cut down on their battle effectiveness and clearly lose the battle for you.

Group your archers. I usually have two groups of equal size: a right flank and left flank. Instead of fire at will mode, I have my archers concentrate on key units and fronts. At the first wave, your archers should naturally decimate the enemy cavalry charge until it barely even scratches against your front before routing. However, don't keep firing at the cavalry unit. While the French heavy cav approaches your front, watch for the French knights on the march. As soon as they get in archer range, cancel all attacks on the cavalry (your infantry will hold against them well enough) and target the French foot knights.

Here is where you need to get picky. Usually, on both flanks, there are one or two units of dismounted french knights that are on a direct collision course with your archers to the flanks. Have the right flank group of archers target all their fire on the approaching unit from the right side and the same for the left flank.

Continue this and the unit should probably rout even before it ever reaches your stakes. If not, you may pull back a bit, or engage with billmen to drive them off. Otherwise, now turn your archers on the flanks of the french line now engaged with your English infantry. Have each archer group fire into the nearest flank of troops. Concentrate your fire so that you quickly rout one unit at a time.

Your English knights will be fine. Although they have less defence without a shield compared to the French knights, their armor piercing bonus will tip the armor difference in their favor. Plus, their higher attack will ensure better kill rate. They'll be fine as long as you can rout the French knights with your archers one unit at a time.

Once the flanks begin to falter to 'wavering' or start routing, concentrate ALL fire on the center mass of knights. You'll score tons of kills, and with the English knights in front of them, the archer fire on top of them, and the sight of fleeing French to their flanks, this will kill their morale and rout them.

The second and third line of French should be handled much the same. Target first the French flanking knights that would endanger your archers if they approach and annihilate them. Then start concentrated fire on the flanking units of the French until they rout, followed quickly by massive concentration of fire on the main front line (go for the General whenever possible).

What you need to watch for is the French flanking cavalry from the rear. Once they're close, but haven't charged yet, move up your rear unit of billmen and knights. Choose one to be further out. The French will invariably take the bait and converge on that one unit. This will ensure your archers will be out of danger for the moment and your front line will remain unmolested by the flanking cavalry.

The second the French cav come into range, stop all archer action and have them all, ALL, target the french Cavalry general. Kill as many cavalry as possible with your archers until they engage with your rearguard. Next, have a few units of archers keep firing into the flanks of the cavalry while the rest return to their battlefield duties. At the same time, your forward rearguard unit should have stopped the French cavalry in their tracks, making them easy targets for a unit of knights, billmen, or even King Henry to charge from the front or side. Try a frontal assault and leave the flanks open for archers to hit. The horses will turn tail quickly and rout.

The second that happens, commit all archers again to the battle at hand. Rout the flanks of the French before aiming all fire at the center mass. The French Crossbowmen are negligle in this fight and will rout once the infantry are crushed. If you need to, plug up some waving point in your front line with a unit of billmen or extra knights, but you really shouln't need to if all goes well.

[Town Watch]

Here's what you do in Agincourt:

Do not set your front line units to defensive mode. This will cut down on their battle effectiveness and clearly lose the battle for you.

Group your archers. I usually have two groups of equal size: a right flank and left flank. Instead of fire at will mode, I have my archers concentrate on key units and fronts. At the first wave, your archers should naturally decimate the enemy cavalry charge until it barely even scratches against your front before routing. However, don't keep firing at the cavalry unit. While the French heavy cav approaches your front, watch for the French knights on the march. As soon as they get in archer range, cancel all attacks on the cavalry (your infantry will hold against them well enough) and target the French foot knights.

Here is where you need to get picky. Usually, on both flanks, there are one or two units of dismounted french knights that are on a direct collision course with your archers to the flanks. Have the right flank group of archers target all their fire on the approaching unit from the right side and the same for the left flank.

Continue this and the unit should probably rout even before it ever reaches your stakes. If not, you may pull back a bit, or engage with billmen to drive them off. Otherwise, now turn your archers on the flanks of the french line now engaged with your English infantry. Have each archer group fire into the nearest flank of troops. Concentrate your fire so that you quickly rout one unit at a time.

Your English knights will be fine. Although they have less defence without a shield compared to the French knights, their armor piercing bonus will tip the armor difference in their favor. Plus, their higher attack will ensure better kill rate. They'll be fine as long as you can rout the French knights with your archers one unit at a time.

Once the flanks begin to falter to 'wavering' or start routing, concentrate ALL fire on the center mass of knights. You'll score tons of kills, and with the English knights in front of them, the archer fire on top of them, and the sight of fleeing French to their flanks, this will kill their morale and rout them.

The second and third line of French should be handled much the same. Target first the French flanking knights that would endanger your archers if they approach and annihilate them. Then start concentrated fire on the flanking units of the French until they rout, followed quickly by massive concentration of fire on the main front line (go for the General whenever possible).

What you need to watch for is the French flanking cavalry from the rear. Once they're close, but haven't charged yet, move up your rear unit of billmen and knights. Choose one to be further out. The French will invariably take the bait and converge on that one unit. This will ensure your archers will be out of danger for the moment and your front line will remain unmolested by the flanking cavalry.

The second the French cav come into range, stop all archer action and have them all, ALL, target the french Cavalry general. Kill as many cavalry as possible with your archers until they engage with your rearguard. Next, have a few units of archers keep firing into the flanks of the cavalry while the rest return to their battlefield duties. At the same time, your forward rearguard unit should have stopped the French cavalry in their tracks, making them easy targets for a unit of knights, billmen, or even King Henry to charge from the front or side. Try a frontal assault and leave the flanks open for archers to hit. The horses will turn tail quickly and rout.

The second that happens, commit all archers again to the battle at hand. Rout the flanks of the French before aiming all fire at the center mass. The French Crossbowmen are negligle in this fight and will rout once the infantry are crushed. If you need to, plug up some waving point in your front line with a unit of billmen or extra knights, but you really shouln't need to if all goes well.

So, in a nutshell: First shoot the french knights to bitz, then concentrate fire into the flank d-knight units, and after that start shooting at the big blob of d-knights in the middle. Rinse and repeat.

Then the french rearguard comes and I try to bait the french away from my left flank archers, towards a bill unit. Then I'll pour the rest of my free melee troops on their reinforcements general and rout the remaining cavalry.

Meanwhile I'll be shooting their main force's general, and the rest of the d-knights???

Where would king Henry best be at the time of the french reinforcements
???

I tried putting him at the back fighting cavalry, and it worked nicely, got the french general killed very early, and then I committed to killing the main general who also died pretty early

[CtrlAltDe1337]

I used to constantly loose on Pavia because I didn't manage my pike formations very well.

Agincourt can be tricky unless you have a fix for the DEK and billmen, since they have buggy attack.

Otumba is fairly simple if you use your cavalry well and group your men on the hill. Stick together and keep morale up for a easy win.

Hastings is prob. the easiest of them all. Order your archers to attack the 2 sub generals and charge once they are out of ammo. After a few seconds of combat, start to retreat with your archers to draw them out then bring up your main force of infantry. Use your cavalry to hit their flanks and rear and the battle is won.

[lilolee]

Here's what you do in Agincourt:

Do not set your front line units to defensive mode. This will cut down on their battle effectiveness and clearly lose the battle for you.

Guess I've been lucky then never having lost Agincourt using those tactics then

[Commander_Vimes]

i usually lose but finally i was winning and its a draw because the time ran out!!

[parvus]

In Otumba, use ur cavalry to constantly smash into the aztec ranks. Preserve ur musketeers and target the enemy generals. In Pavia use ur captain to kill the enemy general, use and conserve ur arquebusiers. once u hav killed the french king it should be rly easy. kill the cannon after he's dead as well.

[Ippius]

My captain died in Pavia but i still won./ U just need to kill the Frendh king (which is simple. Usually he plows right through the sharpened stakes or the halberd militia). Use the Zweihanders well. Play defensive at the start and once u kill the king destroy the cannon. Simple.
Otumba is quite hard. U have to maintain the position of ur musketeers and try to conserve as many men as u can. The cavalry are extremely vital in the battle, u should try to run over the generals of teh enemy asap and crush any fleeing units before they can regroup.

[Jackster]

Pavia is Easy, I won it five time in demo and then another on hard in the game.
Let you Pikemen and Halberdiers deal with those pesky Gendarmes, guard the left flank with Zwei handers against the French infantry coming your way.
Order your Arquebusiers to shoot the Scot guards once they come in range
Run your general to the back of the French king, then try to kill him when he flees.

[Town Watch]

Now that you already bumped this thread, my problem seemed to be the buggy DEK attack animations, since I engaged the mounted commander's unit with 3 full DEKs for about 2 minutes, I surrounded him from all sides, not a single enemy casualty...

[Jackster]

its the bug where two hand weapons wont attack cav units, you have to use a mod to fix that.
In Agrincourt, I realize its a good idea to charge archers in the flank and rear of the French mob, I routed them quite easily.