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Thread: Using your King, or Steward in Battle - my 2p worth

  1. #1

    Default Using your King, or Steward in Battle - my 2p worth

    I have played Dale, Elves, Gondor and am now started on Eriador.

    Some of the Strategy Guides suggest that you leave your King (or in the case of Gondor that Bar Steward Denethor ) in a productive town or city, e.g. your capital, and turn him into an Super Adminstrator (always turn your tax to Very High if you can when a building gets completed - your Gov will soon be squeezing the last pips of tax out of every hapless citizen). 20% more tax over 100 turns for somewhere like Esgaroth or Minas Tirith adds up to "an effing lot." Also your leader won't get bad characteristics for slaughtering prisoners and burning towns down.

    I did this for my first two campaigns Dale and Elves.

    The counter argument

    When I played Gondor, early on I took Denethor out of MT, with his 54 Elite Cav bodyguards to fight on the battlefield and replaced him with a junior nobody, who I trained up to be one helluva admin; he peeked in the Palantir and went mad, but funnily enough this seemed to have zero effect on his governing capabilities.

    The regenerating 55 cav were extremely valuable on the battlefield, and it was the right thing to do.

    Now I am playing Eriador

    I have been using Aragorn and Gandalf together in the same stack. I did have them governing towns but my military needs have taken prominence as I don't have that many troops (I've been turtling a bit for Lore reasons) but have started to attack Gundabad with my one stack, building up dread with that general whose name I forget. Aruanuir the merciless??

    However Aragon's bodyguard The Grey Company are extremely effective in battle. 77 Horse archers + they can fight well in close combat.
    Here's the battle stats from two: 21 killed vs 394 orcs KIA then 11 lost vs 302; my view is that they are too deadly to be left in a city. I'm going to be "good" with ole Strider and not have him massacre prisoners, etc. I'm OK with ransoming. He's going to be the "Good Guy" while Mr Disrespects Prisoners: "You're a manky little orc and your mother dresses you funny" Aranuir doing the slash and burn stuff.

    That's the current plan, anyway.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Using your King, or Steward in Battle - my 2p worth

    Just a further bit to add. I played till 2.30 am last night, and was then so hyped I couldn't sleep for 2 hours . I haven't done that for ages!

    Aragorn/Galdalf's army of around 14 units has been fighting an endless series of battles in Ettenmoor. I noted down the results for the Grey Company. Won every battle, note some of them were replays against small numbers of ransomed/released prisoners. I've started trying to shoot every single one so you don't have PoWs, because it's irritating to have to fight them twice! I'm sticking to not letting Big A kill them.

    Ettenmoor 1: GC 0/218 KIA archery only

    2: GC 38/222 archery and close combat

    3: GC 7/218 Friendly fire incident as they were chasing routers - enemy killed 0

    4: GC 0/152 Archery only

    5: GC 0/86

    6: GC: 0/31

    7: GC: 0/68

    8: GC: 0/44

    Oops! It was 8 battles, not 7. When I stopped last night there were 3 more to come. Note these results are only possible because the Gundabaddies don't have much in the way of archery - I have around 5 - 6 units Archer Militia/woodlanders/dunedain rangers/hobbit archers and their missile weapons are neutralised pretty quickly.

  3. #3
    Ngugi's Avatar TATW & Albion Local Mod
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    Default Re: Using your King, or Steward in Battle - my 2p worth

    Hello j'99
    Nice to hear you're having fun ^^

    If you want to upgrade Annuminas ASAP so that you can reforge Arnor, then keeping either Aragorn or Gandalf there is a very good idea.
    In fact, Eriador is the one faction who I'd propose you do keep the FL at home with [if you do not chose Gandalf], especially as if Aragorn dies, you can't reforge.

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  4. #4

    Default Re: Using your King, or Steward in Battle - my 2p worth

    Merry Xmas Ngugi,

    I think I am just going to be going on without reforging. The Grey Company - despite their lack of sartorial prominence - are a mincing machine (since the last report they've probably whacked about 700 orcs with the loss of 12 rangers).

    Unfortunately Gundabad...or rather my own side...have struck back with a fiendish tactic: economic warfare. I got three "bonus" merchant cavalry units for a mission plus three new generals, and my careful financial planning went into the red. All the orcs have to do is not fight me (dead soldiers don't draw their pay :-)) and I will go bankrupt soon. I've got more generals than armies (remind you of any modern militaries) and I can't get rid of them. I sent one useless git into the wilderness, hoping someone would ambush him, but he's fine, probably having a picnic after skewering a wild boar.

    That's what I like about the game, griping aside, I'm in a desperate position - I wondered what buildings I could destroy to recoup some cash - it's never easy and there's always a curve-ball to upset your plans.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Using your King, or Steward in Battle - my 2p worth

    It's now Turn 80 and several things have happened with Eriador: "Well, that's a turn up and no mistake, Mr Frodo" as Sam would say.

    Isengard and Mordor have declared war and the Dark Lord has called an Invasion on Isengard. You may be surprised how much I chortled . Or not!

    I have The Ring...sort of by accident, which is very Loreish, I feel.

    I have been fighting in the North near Carn Dum and Gram for quite some time. I don't even have a single complete full-stack army, and because of my economic difficulties, I can't afford any reinforcements.

    I have lost about four battles - two because I was defeated by the Gundabad Orcs and two deliberatedly because I used cavalry to skirmish then retreat.

    (note I use the term Army generally to mean a full stack of 18-20 units. a Force is lower, say around 10ish)

    The Ambush that Went Horribly Wrong

    I have captured the two northernmost towns on the coast, and sent the only troops I could spare (mostly archers) to join up with my main force, under Araphant the Merciless, who was shadowing a Gundabad force, just south of the horizontal river that runs between Carn Dum and Gram. There's a little fort near there and the orcs hid in there. I thought: "Great, I can siege them for 3 turns and destroy them with no losses". My forces could not quite get there, I hid the archers in a wood, thinking they'd be safe.

    The orc force (including 2 warg units, no trolls) comes out and walks into the ambush.

    So far, so good.....

    I realise that I have too few troops to beat them, even in an ambush, so I deploy uphill, as near to the battlefield baseline but still in range. The idea is to loose a few volleys of arrows, then withdraw rapidly.

    Unfortunately the wargs were too fast, and I had to keep turning round to fight them, so it all became chaotic. My troops, instead of retreating to the nearest border, for some reason wanted to march to one which was diagonally opposite.....with thousands of orcs in the way. I had to keep toggling Withdraw and fighting orders to try to save my force. It took a severe beating. The only good thing was a lot of wargs were killed and there were only 21 left.

    Beaten in a straight fight

    There is also a large Gundie army with two units of trolls near Gram. I fought it with my Aragorn/Gandalf force, but the trolls overwhelmed my infantry and it was a bit of a rout. Got both personalities out, I wasn't going to let them die. About three units had light casualties but a lot were write-offs.


    Besieging Carn Dum

    There were numerous reasons why this was a prime target for me: 1. It's a citadel and will eventually be able to raise high-level units. 2. It has a mine and a decent income. 3. It's close to the battlefront and I am already finding it difficult to get reinforcements in a timely manner from places like Amon Sul and Fornost.

    It also had The Ring...but I'd forgotten about that. (or been lured into wanting to possess it by it working on my subconscious desires - you decide if that's the case!)

    Revenge is sweet

    My main force under Araphant marched on the orcs that had defeated my archers and ripped them apart. Having so few wargs and no trolls they were easy meat.


    Besieging Carn Dum

    By the time Araphant had got there, it was garrisoned by 4 units (1000 orcs) none of whom were archers. I would have to wait one move to build siege equipment before I could storm it.

    Unfortunately the large orc army is South of the river but can reach the Citadel. I have insufficient troops to block the river crossings.

    Cavalry to the Rescue

    Remember the 3 bonus cavalry units and the surplus generals? I had one general and four merchant cav coming up, so my only hope was to harass the main orc army and stop it lifting the siege. Normally I fight in quite linear combined arms forces. I was surprised and pleased to apply completely different hit-and-run cavalry tactics.

    My five units attacked the big stack. The battlefield was good: open with plenty of hills. I spread my force out, with a main group of three and two flankers, one hidden in a wood. I was aiming only to attack the 2 units of trolls.

    Unlike my normal style of fighting - I found swirling around and attacking targets of opportunity from different directions worked well. One of my units couldn't get at the trolls, and the Snaga Archers presented their rear so it crashed into them and killed all but 20 before it had to pull away. By charging the trolls, then pulling out and moving fast I was able to kill most of them.

    When my troops were exhausted and depleted, I rode them away to safety. Although they'd suffered quite heavy casualties (30%), they'd killed about 500 orcs, including the trolls and half the catapult crew. I thought that was magnificent, and worth repeating.

    The stack didn't attack Carn Dum. After a bit of a bloody battle, it fell.

    Another Cavalry Battle

    My "Cavalry Corps" had retreated near to a previously-unseen group of about 10 orc units. Instead of pulling back, I decided to attack them, using the same tactics. During the fighting I charged the left hand side of the general's unit, killed him and their moral plunged. Wiped them out, got a Heroic Victory, with few casualties on my side.

    Future Plans

    I need to regroup and get my forces back up to strength. I can not build units in Carn Dum yet (too few Northmen - I am building the Cultural buildings).

    So I have sent another cavalry unit and Aragorn to the "Cavalry Corps" which should make them even better - I intend to harass enemy units to keep them off my back until I can get a proper army together to take Gram then Litaer Fort. Gandalf and his depleted force have retreated to that town (Afshin?) to receive reinforcements.

    Reached T89 now.
    Last edited by julianj99; December 29, 2017 at 08:33 AM. Reason: fixed more mistakes and improved clarity

  6. #6

    Default Re: Using your King, or Steward in Battle - my 2p worth

    I haven't updated this game summary for ages. Basically I turtled along defeating Gundabad, then the Misty Mountain Orcs, and sieging out Moria for 10 turns to avoid the Balrog. The OoMM had taken the three Elven towns inc Caras Galadhon East of the Misty Mountains. I retook them. I considered giving them back to the S. Elves but they'd only lose them again, and Galadhon is a great trading city, so I've kept them, but sent the Elves some money.

    During this time Rohan and Gondor have fallen, and Mordor has been fighting Harad and Rhun. I was about to attack Isengard, down to only a few small towns, when it was wiped out by Mordor.

    So basically Mordor owns all the lands south of Isengard.

    I spent some time putting together 4 x 15* unit armies, under Aragorn the Nice, and 3 carefully nurtured, psychopathic dreaded killers. Its Turn 176, I started the War Against Mordor 3 turns ago. I struck, I have taken Limlight FT, Tirith Anduin, and Byrig; instead of fighting a Mordor army I saw the opportunity to grab Isengard by Coup de Main (a spy opened the gates).

    I am going to destroy some more Mordor forces and take some more towns. Out in the extreme West, nr Lond Angren I have several towns, but my forces are weak, and suffered a defeat (an ambush that went wrong). I don't think I can hold these places so I am going to fight a guerilla war and harass the Mordor forces, which will distract them from the main thrust Southward from both sides of the Misty Mountains.

    *NOTE: I'd like them to be full stacks, and I have to leave some troops behind as garrisons, but I don't have the financial resources to support more.

    TIP: Build hunting huts and lumber camps in captured towns: you only need 10% Northmen for Hunters and Lumbermen so you can build units quickest.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Using your King, or Steward in Battle - my 2p worth

    Things have taken a turn for the worse. Mordor is starting to bring its strength to bear.

    Basically it's A. The Effin' Trolls; B. The Effin' Troll Catapults. They're the only things I fear. Oodles of orcs are just cannon-fodder.

    My four armies aren't quite strong enough to take on the opposing forces, so I have been on the defensive until I can bring up more men, and especially cavalry, which I can't make close the the battle front.

    One of the Best TATW Battles - on a knife edge

    Aragorn and his 14 units are in Limlight Fort. There's another Eriador Army, under Arvegil, which is a full 20 stack guarding the river crossing to the East. It's previous Dread commander was killed when he attacked the oncoming Mordor orc army, and was pasted by the Olog Hai and Troll Catapults. I had a couple of turns respite to swap units between the two armies and replenish them.

    I haven't got a spy nearby so I was not 100% sure of the composition of the oncoming orcs, but I thought that the Troll catapults were down to about 3 each, and the Ologs had suffered some losses.

    The Orc army, which was huge, over 3400 troops, advanced on the Limlight ft but ran out of movement point before it could start a siege.

    I actually saved the game and stopped as I had a momentous decision to make. I went to bed, needing to rest and think it over. Neither Aragorn's nor Arvegil's army is enough to destroy the orcs. Arvegil's is much the stronger army, because many of the archers and other depleted units from the previous battle were sent to Limlight to recover; it is of course easier to defend a fort with depleted units than fight out in the field. I am also very short of cavalry.

    The Options


    My options were: attack with both forces - if I command with Aragorn, he will be safeish, but the bigger and better army will be commanded by the computer (oh dear). Attack first with Arvegil alone, and almost certainly lose, but cause enough casualties to heavily damage the orc army - then immediately attack with Aragorn on the same turn: I would expect to win the second battle.

    Sleeping on it did resolve the problem. I decided I couldn't afford to lose one army as there are other orcs about and I can't afford to lose an army. I decided to attack together, with me commanding Arvegil's army, and Aragorn as AI commanded. I intended to keep Aragorn on Shooting Stance, to keep it out of trouble and use my missile superiority.

    When I started the battle I was unpleasantly surprised to find that all the troll units were back up to full strength 2 x 12 Ologs and 2 x Troll cats: they must have replaced their casualties or rotated units between battles.

    With a considerable amount of trepidation I deployed, and the orcs retreated to a favourable position halfway up a hill. (A human player would have gone to the summit). I rapidly advanced and opened fire with all my archers, not wanting to get into close combat too soon as I awaited Aragorn's troops coming from the enemy's left flank (my right) and rear. The orcs didn't stand still for very long and charged in, led by one unit of trolls; some units and one of the trolls went for Aragorn. I was fighting desperately, and trying to use my cavalry and Arvegil to hit the flanks/rear of the enemy, combined with concentrated bow-fire on single units that looked vulnerable. I sent one cav unit to charge the trolls who were engaging Aragorn's infantry.

    Although the trolls were mincing my pool Breeland Militia, I was gaining the upper hand and some units routed, although I lacked the cav to pursue them. The trolls were still fighting and occasional blasts of troll artillery mangled both my men, and orcs as well. A gap in their line opened, and I rushed my archer militia behind a unit of orc halberds, who were winning a combat. Point blank volleys of archery sorted that out. The troll arty blew apart my catapults, so I sent the remaining artillerymen in as infantry - that's always a sign of desperation.

    Arvegil and his bodyguard were down to only about 10 men so I sent them round killing routers. I'd turned Aragorn's force onto "Attack" orders.

    I could see we were winning. I looked around and the Grey Company were on their own, in hand-to-hand combat with one of the troll catapults. They were down to 30 men! Yikes! I desperately got all the troops I could, stopping some chasing routers, and charged against the trolls. I tried putting his army back on shooting orders, but the silly, honourable sod, wouldn't retreat to safety. I had to charge Arvegil (down to about 7 men) in as they were the only cav I had left. Fortunately we were able to mob the trolls and kill them. "End Battle?" came up, normally I chase down every last router, but I was too exhausted, and had no cavalry resources bar Arvegil, so I did.

    It was a heroic victory! Arvegil killed the prisoners - although that also seems to have reduced Aragorn's respect by 1.

    That was one of the most nail-biting MTW2 games I have ever played.

    My troops are badly battered and I need to rebuild before I advance further. I really want more cav as they seem to be the only weapon I have that can damage trolls. Artillery seems ineffective and the trolls rapidly get closer than its minimum range.
    Last edited by julianj99; January 18, 2018 at 10:43 AM. Reason: typos, better layout

  8. #8

    Default Re: Using your King, or Steward in Battle - my 2p worth

    I haven't posted on this campaign for a while. I had some technical problems which Elvenkind helpfully solved.

    Anyway, I reached my victory conditions. I've had some tremendous battles on the way. I sent Aragorn to besiege a Mordor town that was full of Orcs. I was sending reinforcements, but I (overconfidently - again!) started the siege so that when the rest of the troops arrived I could assault, having built siege machines in the interim. Unfortunately the Orcs sallied out so 2000 ish troops were facing 4K+ orcs. A brutal battle ensued. I won. The Grey Company lost 50 men, but inflicted 500 casualties and captured 600 prisoners. Wow, a mincing machine. I don't know any other unit in Middle Earth that does so much damage.

    Mordor is really in trouble: Rhun and Harad are still fighting it. So basically I can't get at it, unless I want to declare war on them. They haven't attacked me, so I see no reason to.


    I sent 2 armies to Dol Guldur. The elves were just gavotting sedately around the edges. What was the matter: a shortage of hair-care products prevented attack?

    My spy opened the gates and I sent in my two armies, plus one lot of elves that got sucked in. It was just like WW1: had to grind them down.

    Another victory and I have gifted DG to the elves. I think I am going to have to leave some troops around so they don't lose it. I mean it's only a off huge citadel on top of a very steep hill, you can easily get pushed out if you are either a) as stupid as Theresa May b) the computer.

    I was going to finish the game T227, but a bunch of bandits, whom I have ignored, have just attacked Fornost Erain. I suspect they are going to win, and next turn I will have to PUNISH THEM!!

  9. #9
    Senator
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    Default Re: Using your King, or Steward in Battle - my 2p worth

    Good read! + rep

  10. #10

    Default Re: Using your King, or Steward in Battle - my 2p worth

    Thanks Morifea.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Using your King, or Steward in Battle - my 2p worth

    There's a point that should be noted.

    One of the main reasons many leave(or should leave) the lore characters as governors, quite apart from having super-high stats, is that they are outright immune to gaining many of the negative traits caused from sitting around town or sitting around in the field.(This is also true for both Elf factions entirely). Not all of them(Poor Trader!) but a significant number. It's a real consideration point.

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