any update to dlc Aurelian?

[captainkrunch]

God everything looks so good Ahiga. Excellent work all around. I'm just curious, is any of this available in game, atleast in the form of reskins at the minute?

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

God everything looks so good Ahiga. Excellent work all around. I'm just curious, is any of this available in game, atleast in the form of reskins at the minute?

Not yet AFAIK.

[Ahiga]

I'm taking a momentary break from 3CC to work on stuff for Rise of The Republic since DEI's abundant material for Greeks and Romans and others means less new material has to be done. I've gone and done about 50 Oscan/Italian (Pretty much everyone south and east of Rome who isn't Greek or Punic) tunics, of course it's more like 15-25 with color variations. In terms of work for ROTR I'm only looking to really work on the Celts, the Oscans, and Sardinians. DEI has already mastered the Punics, Greeks, Romans (and celts, but I wanted to touch them up in ROTR). I might also do a little bit of tweaking on the Punics or Greeks when it comes to specific units - namely introduce my edited exomis with attila bodies to solve sameface syndrome https://i.imgur.com/FTUnv8o.jpg (they lack any kind of headgear or proper exomises without faction coloring, this was a proof of concept). The problem being my chiton edit (an enlarged one from R2) has an LOD bug issue and I am still not sure if I'll have access to 2014 3dsMAX again. Likewise I wanted to touch up the Numidians and berbers for AE and DEI and might take ROTR as an opportunity to get started on that.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The studded quilted garments are based off https://i.imgur.com/whu0hcn.jpg sans the broad battle belts because, well, I was feeling lazy and didn't feel like adding them or finding an analogue to be honest. The studding is in reference to the Hallstatt scabbard which clearly depict box-like sections of a linothorax like garb with dots on them. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f3/d7...1a80b101aa.jpg As this is imitated in a Greek vase with Persians https://i.imgur.com/FekmTaH.png I am willing to consider they might actually be studs (they could just be decorations of a textile or painted nature), as much as the idea of studded leather is normally a gross inaccuracy for medieval fantasy/depictions.

I'm sometimes ambivalent about a leather linothorax at all because of what the book "Reconstructing Ancient Linen Body Armor" argued, but an unsubstantiated idea I had is that leather could have been used to face an otherwise linen cuirass. It'd solve the issue of waterproofing the cuirass, give it a nice supple sheen, and it wouldn't change the high repairability function of linen thoraxes (get a gouge or battle damage and you can stuff fabric in there and sew or glue it up, give it a coating or two of canvas and it looks good as news). So if one doesn't like a leather thorax just assume it's a single leather layer over proper linen.

The leather linothoraxes are touched up from CA's own as well as based off re-enactors. Plain jane ones for the rank and file celts, the highly decorated and painted ones for the upper class.

Obviously these have zero application for 3CC but I will return to that shortly. Goal is still to release 3CC as an initial pack with just reskins of the Romans then to do episodic releases with each section updated (Persia/Steppe, Germans, Celts, Arabs/Black Africa/Berbers or something like that).

[captainkrunch]

Excellent work as always. Just curious, what are your plans for the Veneti? CA seems to be going with an Italic representation however is there any plan on your part to perhaps sort of reskin them to be a sort of mesh between Celtic and Italian influence? As most writers indicate they were heavily celticized by the end of the 4th century.

[Ahiga]

I think others on the DEI team are more expert/staked a claim on the Veneti, likewise i don't really have knowledge of them beyond the well known Veneti artwork depicting, well, I am not sure I can link an osprey panel even if it's commonly available online but google "Venetic warrior art" and it should be the 6th or so image. It seems to depict a long scutum spearman, a short scutum spearman, a hoplite with aspis, and then an axeman with that veneti 'quilted triangle segment followed by a mail (or as CA depicts it, lames/scales) section)'. In the text for ROTR it says something about the Veneti being horse-breeders/equestrian but I know nothing of that. So I'll leave comments on the Veneti for the relevant DEI team member proper to answer.

The Situla Certosa is the artwork in question depicting the Veneti army (or kinfolk of the Veneti).
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/53110...ges/man-15.jpg is the full vase, while http://www.museibologna.it/archeolog...oggetto/74616/ has more information, the art being 500-475 BC-ish.

This is an abridged summary of the martial part of the Situla. You can see two cavalrymen (both with helmets and wide skirts. Unclear if they are linothoraxes), five long oval spearmen with helmets and some wearing long pleated skirts (Pteruges or regular clothing?), 4 spearmen wearing crested helmets and Italic/Etruscan style boxy scutums, four hoplites, and then E which seems to depict 2 handed axemen.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

That being said my idea is that the ROTR mod will be a side-mod to DEI since I will have a lot of material DEI might not want/need. 50 Oscan tunics is absurd when Oscans in DEI are basically just, what, 5-8 or so units? So I'll release it and prior to release or after release DEI can go and take whatever assets they need from the side-mod. Thus I might in the side mod elect to revamp or adjust visually (I am not touching stats or units) stuff that DEI has or will rendition themselves. So for instance I might touch up the Carthaginians in a way different than DEI (chiefly to add in proper beltless tunics for carthaginians, add in the beards I ported from attila and ToB, to render Numidians in my interpretation-style), or my Veneti might be more Italic and DEI's Celto-Italian or my veneti might be more celto-Italian and DEI's more italian. It's not clear yet.

Speaking for myself and not DEI if I were to do the Veneti separate from DEI's then yeah I would go with an Italian base that has some celtic influence. Polybius seemed to say they were Celtified in the 4th century but this campaign starts at the very dawn of it with the recent(?) migrations of Brennus, so the influence has yet to assert itself.But you might have some celtic style garments mixed in there, some celtic helmets and so on.

[bohema]

Are the new 3rd century Roman assets in the Mod now?

[Jake Armitage]

@Ahiga
Have gone checking that Situla thing. Thx for the link!

[eliasandersson]

Incredibly excited to see the generals!

[Gyan avspar]

Ahiga make immortals great again .

And Gyan Avspars if you please!

[Ivan_Moscavich]

I am also not aware of any significant mentioning of veneti being renowned Cavalry Masters. I'm not sure where creative assembly pulled that from.

[captainkrunch]

It is a very, very minor reference. I am copying this from Wikipedia so be warned. Much like Iolean Armored gloves they took an idea and ran off with it which from a gameplay perspective I don't mind.

"he territory of the Veneti came to the notice of the Greeks in the 4th c. BC. Strabo records that Dionysius I of Syracuse (c. 432 – 367 BC), desiring the famed horses of the Veneti, founded trading colonies along the Adriatic coast.^[16] The Sicilian tyrant favored the town of Adria^[17] as a trading partner, helping it build canals which linked it to the sea and broke the trading monopoly of Spina.^[18]"

[TheJackinati275]

I'm sometimes ambivalent about a leather linothorax at all because of what the book "Reconstructing Ancient Linen Body Armor" argued, but an unsubstantiated idea I had is that leather could have been used to face an otherwise linen cuirass. It'd solve the issue of waterproofing the cuirass, give it a nice supple sheen, and it wouldn't change the high repairability function of linen thoraxes (get a gouge or battle damage and you can stuff fabric in there and sew or glue it up, give it a coating or two of canvas and it looks good as news). So if one doesn't like a leather thorax just assume it's a single leather layer over proper linen.

If a 'tube-and-yoke' cuirass was made from rawhide (And likely not leather), it is quite likely that it would have been referred to as being a 'Spolas' rather than a Linothorax.

Pollux's Onomastikon: "The spolas is a thorax of leather, which hangs from the shoulders, so that Xenophon says 'and the spolas instead of the thorax."

Hesychius: "Spolas: thick leathern little chiton, the leathern thorax"

Personally, I believe that the tube-yoke cuirass would have been made with whatever is to hand and is available, so I think that reconstructions made from Rawhide or linen are both accurate. I'd assume that most Celtic versions of this form of armour would likely have involved some form of leather or rawhide in their construction, owing to the larger amount of available cattle within Celtic society, but again we will likely never know.

At the very least, with rawhide you would likely only need to deal with two/four layers rather than fifteen-thirty layers of linen! Folding and working with that many layers is a damned hassle to get right from my experience. (With a bedding-sheet gambeson because I'm poor, no linen for me.)

Here is a link to what I think is one of the best examples of a Spolas in construction, In my honest opinion.

Concerning your idea, I would not be surprised if there are occasions where this could have occurred, though It probably wasn't very common. I know that there are several depictions in the Morgan bible which seem to depict rawhide or leather coverings that were worn over gambesons, and there are references that sometimes leather (Primarily that of deer) was worn over or under a gambeson in some accounts. It would not be too stupendous to assume that it could have been done in earlier or later periods.

Additionally, I am really liking the colours of your Celtic spolas, the diamonds in particular.

[Ahiga]

That's a good point, I hadn't considered the idea that leather wouldn't require as many layers. And ultimately repairing it might not be the same as the linothorax, but it would allow for a simple covering layer to cover up the blemish. I agree with you though and I've come to be cautiously liberal with what constituted armour for the ancients. Clearly leather was not used as abundantly as hollywood presents, but with the spolas we get the idea that it did exist in some shape or form.

Thanks for the Romany army topic topic, that's really neat to see a high fidelity spolas re-construction. Also thanks for the appreciation for the colors, I'm particularly glad they turned out well to you. I finally realized a far superior way of depicting painted decoration is to..well, use a painted texture! In the past I might have cheapily just 'painted' (recolored/adjusted color) right on the leather or linen. This time the diamonds and the bulk of the rightmost white and red cuirass are based on a proper painted texture I took from one of my shield PSDs. It makes for a world of difference.

In terms of new content I have ported over ToB and Attila beards/hairstyles, as seen here. At least in ROTR sub-mod I am using them exclusively over the old R2 beards. The WoS beards were okay so I might reuse those in the future in 3CC (already did to an extent), but I really hate the horrible mutton chops and amish giant beards in vanilla R2.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Along with necessary undertunics, tunics, trousers and cloaks. Three bronze cuirasses based on DEI's great celtic style bronze cuirass, one unadorned and two with the embossing:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[eliasandersson]

Ohh lord! Looks amazing! We need a topic only with pictures from you Ahiga! On everything youre working on.

[ThePoshBarbarian]

Ouf! Those beards look amazing!
Always good to have more beard diversity for the barbarian factions!

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

We want to look prim and proper when sacking and looting the filthy civilized plebs!

[CK23]

I'm glad to see Empire Divided is getting worked on. It's one of my favorite time periods and campaigns to boot.

[CadetNewb]

I'm very happy to see progress, but can't help but be reminded of that one Batman movie.

[~Seleukos.I.Nikator~]

I'm glad to see Empire Divided is getting worked on. It's one of my favorite time periods and campaigns to boot.

I think atm the progress with the Empire Divided campaign has been halted at the expense of modding the upcoming Rise of the Republic dlc, which seems more achievable given the close resemblance of this campaign to the DeI timeframe. Or that's at least my understanding of it.

[CK23]

I think atm the progress with the Empire Divided campaign has been halted at the expense of modding the upcoming Rise of the Republic dlc, which seems more achievable given the close resemblance of this campaign to the DeI timeframe. Or that's at least my understanding of it.

It makes sense; I'm glad to see there's some progress for it overall however.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

We'll have to see the full Rise of the Empire Campaign to decide. I know that Ahiga have already done great progress with Empire Divided but Rise of Rome is (as expected) still untouched.