Brexit - Time to scrap it and start again?

[caratacus]

Exactly my thoughts, you beat me to it. Local no-confidence votes on their MP can be made, I think in Chukka's and Berger's constituencies the odds of success are high and would force re-election. That being the case, as you said we can have a proper view on what the public thinks about Brexit and whether the Corbyn anti-semitism row is perceived as a manufactured one.

It was the same situation with Frank Field and John Woodcock. If you leave the party whose ticket you were elected upon, you should resign and be prepared to contest another vote. The vast majority of people vote accrding to the policies of a particular political party and who is the leader of that party. If these MPs campaigned wearing red rosettes with Jermey Corbyn as their leader, less than two years ago, then they cannot remain as MPs. Coming at what is a difficult time,this is obviously going to be damaging for the Party. And what is happening about Fiona Onasanya!? She isn't even sitting in parliament anymore.

In other news today a headline which will no doubt be used to blame on Brexit and influence Parliament's actions next week (its intention) Honda have announced the closure of their car plant at Swindon.

Honda set to close Swindon car plant
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47282603

However, this decision was influenced directly by the new trade deal that the EU signed up with Japan, which means cars can be shipped directly into Europe without tarrifs.

Now if we had some leadership in the Country (which we don't) Honda should be told in no uncertain terms, that as this trade deal will not apply to the UK after Brexit. If they want to continue selling many millions of shinny new cars in the Country without hefty tarrifs, they will need to keep at least some of this plant open.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

They close it because the cars, which they produce there, are for the european market, not for the british. UK with its high private debt rate is not so important for car sellers than the whole EU single market. Thats why Nissan move.

But hey make tarifs on not in Britain produced products, it work good in the US, where US exports in China have a heavy sales slump.

[mongrel]

It was the same situation with Frank Field and John Woodcock. If you leave the party whose ticket you were elected upon, you should resign and be prepared to contest another vote. The vast majority of people vote accrding to the policies of a particular political party and who is the leader of that party. If these MPs campaigned wearing red rosettes with Jermey Corbyn as their leader, less than two years ago, then they cannot remain as MPs. Coming at what is a difficult time,this is obviously going to be damaging for the Party. And what is happening about Fiona Onasanya!? She isn't even sitting in parliament anymore.

In other news today a headline which will no doubt be used to blame on Brexit and influence Parliament's actions next week (its intention) Honda have announced the closure of their car plant at Swindon.

However, this decision was influenced directly by the new trade deal that the EU signed up with Japan, which means cars can be shipped directly into Europe without tarrifs.

Now if we had some leadership in the Country (which we don't) Honda should be told in no uncertain terms, that as this trade deal will not apply to the UK after Brexit. If they want to continue selling many millions of shinny new cars in the Country without hefty tarrifs, they will need to keep at least some of this plant open.

I agree with you regarding MPs and their tenure. Being an MP isn't a job, it's an office and if one can't meet the demands of an office due to comptence, criminality or conscience that office should be relinquished. It is rare to see judges behave in that way. Incompetent tiiming, it makes the possibility of Parliament gettng a grip on Brexit less likely and if it flops it would put off Tories dissatisfied with Theresa May's anarchy from doing likewise.Working with the Lib-Dems would be the kiss of death, they are in part responsible for the state the country is in thanks to austerity.Mr Umunna has chukka'd his political career away.

[caratacus]

They close it because the cars, which they produce there, are for the european market, not for the british. UK with its high private debt rate is not so important for car sellers than the whole EU single market. Thats why Nissan move.

Even with the total number of new car sales falling last year, up to 2017 the UK had one of the strongest markets for new car sales in comparison with Europe.

European Car Sales Data
http://carsalesbase.com/european-car-sales-data/honda/
Honda sales in Europe have declined steadily in Europe from 2009 to 2015, with market share sliding accordingly, to below 1% for the first time ever in 2015, compared to 2 percent in 2007. In 2016, its share slightly rebounded to above 1% before dropping to an all-time low in 2017.
Some critics say Honda seems to give Europe a lower priority than the US and China, where the brand sells ten times more cars a year in each of those regions than in Europe.

It is interesting that many of the cars assembled in Swindon are exported to America.

Approximately 13,000 hot hatches will be built in Swindon for worldwide market
https://www.expressandstar.com/news/...t-high-demand/
“But the American market has really driven up demand because it’s not been available over there before. We’re looking at producing about 13,000 units between now and March 31, and we’re exporting about 6,000 of those to the States.”
The United Kingdom has long been the best European market for hot hatches, and that looks set to continue with the new Type R. Of the 3,700 year-one cars set aside for Europe, about 1,500 will remain in the UK

But hey make tarifs on not in Britain produced products, it work good in the US, where US exports in China have a heavy sales slump.

The Chinese have failed to maintain a sustain growth in its domestic market, it's the reason that their GDP is falling. But even when foreign companies do secure trade markets in China, they don't export they relocate.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

But even then the supply chains for the car parts are in europe, brexit will disrupt them. Thats clear foreseeable. Brexit is a Risk for Corporations and thats why they migrate mainly to Netherlands.

[Dante Von Hespburg]

Excellent, that's 7 by-elections then. At last, the electorate can vote on an MPs views on whether they are pro or anti Brexit.

Of course it won't happen will it, because these particular MPs, who have for so long campaigned for a second referendum (cough, peoples vote) wouldn't want the people to have a vote on the basis of their differences with the Labour party leadership.

I'm in full agreement with you and Mongrel here. Its made worse by the fact they have essentially created a new party (The 'Independent Group') which has a hierarchy (or will do) and will function essentially like a political party- yet because they are pretending they are 'independents' their hoping to dodge the traditional bi-election that happens when MP's leave one party for another (which of course is not mandatory, but as you guys have rightly said- its at least a nod to your constituents that things have changed).

It'll be interesting to see what happens- if they were smart, their will be more resignations and 'crossing overs' coming in the next few days from Labour...if they were dumb, then they are merely hoping their 'brave stand' will have some kind of ripple effect. Regardless if they do not get a significant number of MP's coming over to them, you can pretty much guarantee what will already be a downsizing at the next GE for their new party, will essentially be a wipe-out due to FPTP and also their mandates being in reality for 'Labour' not for this new party.

People keep arguing for a new centrist party... however if there was appetite for that (and i say this as someone who was a centrist ) then the lib-dems would have done significantly better than they have.

What will be interesting too is if the Tory remainers come across too/ are galvanized by this.... i rather doubt it but who knows. It would be amusing if the Tories split, but couldn't quite bring themselves to work with the Labour centrsits, so formed their own Tory remainer indy faction .

But yeah- generally... this is weird and kind of insane, unless they have some seriously wealthy backers who can pump more money than the Labour Party can, as well as successfully fend off the Tories and Lib-dems (I'm guessing that part given their constituencies should not be too hard), but also looking at their voting records, beliefs etc...their policies beyond brexit are literally going to be mirror-image to the Labour Parties... So yeah... you might almost expect the split is in the hope of shifting Corbyn to supporting a second-referendum as the primary option and then they hope to rejoin in the near future, certainly before the next GE (hence why no by-elections).

Judging too by the day 1 racism row this splinter group has embroiled itself in... i really do hope for their sake that this is just a temporary split, as they clearly do not have the political acumen to be successful in the longer term (whether you feel the comments were racist or not...its more the fact that such a scandal has already happened and the media and opponents have leapt on it, they cannot afford to make such mistakes if they hope to have even a remote chance of not being obliterated at the next GE). If they were stupid enough to split without a significant minority lined up waiting for staggered resignations, but instead were hoping their example would start a cascade, they really can't afford being tarred by such things from the get go as it will put off potential allies from following in their footsteps.

[Abdülmecid I]

A great article on the effects of Brexit upon Wales, written by the indomitable Patrick Cockburn. His remarks and the data he cites seem to confirm my observations about the rise of the far-right in the presidential and legislative elections of France and Sweden, respectively. Racism is just a symptom of the declining quality of life, which means that blaming solely chauvinism for the unexpected result of the referendum is short-sighted and misleading. On the contrary, the crux of the matter lies in the fact that many impoverished communities in Wales, Lincolnshire, Yorkshire and etc. have watched their income collapsing, so they desperately look for a radical change of the status-quo. Extremist populists exploit these fears, by presenting the foreign immigrants and the Brussels committees as responsible for the deindustrialisation of England and thus succeeding in convincing these potential voters to support their agenda. As Cockburn underlines, their strategy is probably facilitated by the fact that the mass media, despite often being labelled as the "pillars of cosmopolitanism", are obsessed with the issue of immigration/multiculturalism and their role on the rise of xenophobia, thus inadvertently reaffirming the otherwise fragile narrative of Nigel Farage and co. Granted, there is no doubt that we cannot ignore the phenomenon of vicious circle, in the sense that tribalist propaganda and hostility towards foreigners also contribute to the creation an animosity against mainstream parties and the country's membership in the European Union, but they are neither the primary nor the main cause for the victory of "No".

[Elmetiacos]

Three Conservatives have now resigned from their party; Anna Soubry, Heidi Allen and Sarah Wollaston. Their speeches were broadcast this lunchtime, in part at least. It seems Brexit is the main issue only for Anna Soubry, the others focussed on their party shifting away from the One Nation ideas espoused during the Cameron years. An interviewee, whose name I didn't get, on BBC Radio's World at One programme, suggested he too might be wavering and spoke of entryism within the Conversative party by the extreme right. Edit: it was Dominic Grieve, who said that he was unlikely to leave the party.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

Fitch demoted the credit-worthiness of the UK because of Brexit.

https://www.fitchratings.com/site/pr/10063869

[Greyblades]

Odd considering we're supposedly running a surplus but not unexpected.

The uncertainty is the worst aspect of all this, noone can plan when the government refuses to rule out any course of action. Deal or hard brexit, deal or remain, deal or delay, even declaring screw the deal go hard brexit would help those planning for the future but the constant uncertainty makes investment riskier.

[NorseThing]

I find it interesting that 3 leave the Tories because they are not getting a Brexit revote with Remain as an option. Yet no word yet on the 3 MP's resigning their seats for a revote.

[Elmetiacos]

I find it interesting that 3 leave the Tories because they are not getting a Brexit revote with Remain as an option. Yet no word yet on the 3 MP's resigning their seats for a revote.

Understandable that they don't want to resign their seats in the middle of the Brexit process, that would be self defeating. Of course, some may say that's exactly why they should resign and stand again as soon as possible, because they no longer accept the Conservative position on Brexit! When (if?) it is all resolved one way or another, I imagine pressure will grow on them to resign, but it isn't quite the same as with, say, Douglas Carswell, because none from either Conservative or Labour have actually joined a different party.

[Muizer]

they no longer accept the Conservative position on Brexit!

The argument for putting their seats up for election wouldn't be their position on Brexit. There's no unity amongst the conservatives on this anyway. They could have just created their own rebel faction within the Tories, like the ERG, who aren't asked to resign their seats eiter. It's the fact that they left the party that opens them up to calls to resign. If they did not, they could just say they're acting on their personal mandate (which they have, after all, alongside them being elected on behalf of the Tories).

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

The argument for putting their seats up for election wouldn't be their position on Brexit. There's no unity amongst the conservatives on this anyway. They could have just created their own rebel faction within the Tories, like the ERG, who aren't asked to resign their seats eiter. It's the fact that they left the party that opens them up to calls to resign. If they did not, they could just say they're acting on their personal mandate (which they have, after all, alongside them being elected on behalf of the Tories).

This. In Germany Member of Parliament have a free personal mandate too. Its a intended difference to for example Sowjetsystem, where congressmen had no own right to decision and were only executioneers of the people's party will.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

Now May's minister mutiny: No Brexit in a no deal case.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ay-Brexit.html

[Elmetiacos]

Now May's minister mutiny: No Brexit in a no deal case.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ay-Brexit.html

If Amber Rudd, May's annointed successor at the Home Office, goes, then 'there's nothing left to stop the whole green world from burning' as Arthur Miller put it. No Deal is dead, therefore the ERGers who want a no deal Brexit must now gamble and paradoxically support a second referendum - the only way they get what they want is for the public to back it, since there in no chance Parliament will.

[Greyblades]

...why exactly is amber rudd of all people important for no deal?

We knew the remainers wouldnt cooperate before this; the hope of no brexit is that the remainer mps split between the parties are unable to properly coordinate and propose an extention agreement that could sway enough of the more neutral mps before the deadline.

Seeing that Theresa May still has the 117 tories who want her gone to worry about I dont see this changing the deadlock; she's gonna lose support of a chunk of her party when pushing for either way.

[Elmetiacos]

Theresa May spontaneously combusted this morning and burned away to a fine, powdery ash which then blew in the wind, disappearing into nothingness. A Downing Street spokesman insisted that negotiations were still ongoing and there were real grounds for expecting that a deal which could be supported by Parliament could be delivered by the Prime Minister.

[Morticia Iunia Bruti]

EU has plans, that Brexit could delayed until 2021, if the UK ask for a delay. EU would like to avoid a only 3 month delay till summer because of current UK government's inabilty to handle Brexit, as in 3 months the situation will be the same.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...sources-reveal

[Morifea]

What about the elections for the EU-Parliament? GB has to take part if they don`t Brexit until then.