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Thread: Houserules

  1. #1

    Default Houserules

    As I'm always interested in enriching my playing experience i would like to hear your houserules to get new inspirations. But let me start with mine:

    obvious ones first:
    - realistic/plausible army compositions and garrisons; no full elite armies, royal guards only with royals, no one unit garrisions to keep costs low
    - FM lead armies
    - roleplay offices, education & others
    - load/unload from fleets only at ports
    - don't just start a war, look for casus belli
    - use generals cam (new on my list, but I like it a lot)
    - gradual expansion and increase of government control (from allied state to more control)
    - allied state have automatic building and recruitment to represent their autonomy (not always recruitment as this can drain your treasury)
    - roleplaying taxation (for example romans used their client states either for money or troops, rarely both)

    I'm curious about your input.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Houserules

    When I have some government reform I raise taxes to max everywhere until I upgrade governments in my core provinces.

  3. #3
    Senator
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    Default Re: Houserules

    I like to never retrain units to replenish them, as well as marching them back home before disbanding after their campaign. Unless they're meant to be military settlers, then I disband them when appropriate building is constructed.

  4. #4
    Frtigern's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Houserules

    In newly conquered cities i maintain a large garrison of levies regardless to keep order. Interior homeland garrisons don't require many units but I like to have one levy spearman, levy skirmisher and a slinger or bow unit.

    Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk
    Swords don't kill people, people with swords kill people.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Houserules

    An interesting thread with good suggestions (among which incidentally there is one by me) was discussed around one month ago:

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...enge-an-Empire

    Hiring mercenaries for states that historically made large use of them (Qarthadastim) is something that I like to do. I usually roleplay a "military campaign" with a specific goal: when the goal is reached, most of the mercenary army is disbanded. This can be done also for regular citizen troops (not the professionals), to simulate citizens going back to work in their farms. Mercenaries can be disbanded anywhere, hired faction troops have to be disbanded in their homelands.
    Never retraining troops is another good tip.
    I prefer managing allied states by myself, in order to
    properly
    roleplay construction and recruitment for the local ruler.

    I still need to work on some proper house rules for steppe factions, but one idea I had is that a family member needs to lead at least two-three raiding parties before earning the trust of the tribe and being considered a real man: from that point on he can command proper armies and manage camps.

    I haven't played that much 2.3, unfortunately, because by now I lack the time. In the future something else can come to my mind.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Houserules

    I like marching your troops back before disbanding them. Maybe one could take the concept even further and disband most of the troops regularly, especially in peace time. This could simulate the need of the soldiers to go back home to attend their business and farms.

  7. #7
    alex33's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Houserules

    Quote Originally Posted by Humbug_Total View Post
    I like marching your troops back before disbanding them. Maybe one could take the concept even further and disband most of the troops regularly, especially in peace time. This could simulate the need of the soldiers to go back home to attend their business and farms.
    This! I disband my army once it's campaign is done. Not only is it good for money but it's also realistic
    There is nothing impossible to him who will try.



  8. #8

    Default Re: Houserules

    I’ve got my own set of home rules for playing any mod without exploiting the M2TW engine deficiencies. You may read them in full here. A shortened one for the EBII is as follows:

    Thou shall not:
    1) Deliberately kill a bad general.
    (this includes a FL with low authority, a rebelling general, an old general, and could be done by sending him on a ship to fall prey to the pirates / enemies, or sending him alone to a hopeless battle, or just suiciding him in a battle – all of what is ahistorical and counteracts the game mechanics designed by the moders).
    2) Send any military units outside of a settlement without a general
    (this rule is equivalent to the BGR mechanics of easy rebellion of troops without the general. Unfortunately, this mechanics should not be used since the AI cannot handle it what would result in his armies rebelling very often).
    3) Change the production/recruitment in a settlement without a governor inside
    (this rule is equivalent to the SS mechanics of limited activities. This makes the role of the FMs more pronounced)
    4) Keep any agent with an unloyal general for the purpose of preventing him from rebelling while traveling outside of a settlement
    (you may keep a spy with him for another reason, e.g. defense against foreign agents, but not to make up for his lack of loyalty what can be an easy way to conduct far-away operations risk-free).
    5) Kill an enemy agent with military forces
    (the 9th field method; to kill enemy agents you need to have a good assassin: laborious, expensive, risky, with possible negative side-effects).
    6) Bait an enemy garrisons out of the settlements by stationing a weaker army outside the enemy gates
    (the problems with the AI unable to correctly assess the strength of the forces is shown here)
    7) Build the watchtowers just to entice rebel armies
    (especially you don’t build two of them close enough to each other, so that the rebel stack would just wander from the first to the second (and back in the following turn), therefore not only leaving your province capital alone but also not even causing devastation)
    For those who want to play a historical mod in a medieval setting:
    try either the Stainless Steel Historical Improvement Project + minimods,
    or the Broken Crescent + Buff and Shine submod.
    ..........................................................................................................................................................................
    Reviews of the mods: SSHIP (2018), Wrath of the Norsemen (2018), Broken Crescent (2018).
    Minimods for the SSHIP: Generals' Traits fix (with Education of Generals), Provincial Titles fix.
    Short guides for the SSHIP: population growth, forts and watchtowers.
    Pros and cons of having Merchants in an M2TW mod.
    Home rules for playing a game without exploiting the M2TW engine deficiencies.
    Dominant strategy in Attila TW and Rome 2 TW: “Sniping groups of armies”.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Houserules

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    I’ve got my own set of home rules for playing any mod without exploiting the M2TW engine deficiencies. You may read them in full here. A shortened one for the EBII is as follows:

    Thou shall not:

    4) Keep any agent with an unloyal general for the purpose of preventing him from rebelling while traveling outside of a settlement
    (you may keep a spy with him for another reason, e.g. defense against foreign agents, but not to make up for his lack of loyalty what can be an easy way to conduct far-away operations risk-free).
    Not risk free, more like risk diminishing. I had an FM and his entire army rebel, along with the damn spy who was supposed to prevent that from happening. So agents do not prevent rebellions, they just make them less likely - perfectly reasonable. If one knew he was being watched, one would be less likely to be naughty, but might still try.

    One of my house rules is to not give low loyalty FMs any major field force. They are to govern cities, move very small reinforcements around (best if they jump from city to city, or city-ship-city) or aid more reliable generals in battle.
    So, when I do lose an FM and an army, a generally reliable man rebelled.

    How would one differentiate keeping agents for the reason of preventing rebellion from keeping agents for the reason of defense against foreign agents? 2.2 was crawling with assassins and spies, my faction leader got knifed by an assassin. So, any general leading units in the field would be entitled to an escort, and it depends on the importance of the FM, how "hot" the zone is, and the availability of agents for protection.
    I recommend a pugio rather than a spear, because in close quarters combat, a dagger will serve you better than a spear.

    Rad, 2016.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Houserules

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooz View Post
    I like to never retrain units to replenish them, as well as marching them back home before disbanding after their campaign. Unless they're meant to be military settlers, then I disband them when appropriate building is constructed.
    I also never retrain, I merge.
    However, I do not disband units. That would lead to an unrealistic loss of veterans, as the game engine does not allow the "recall" of experienced troops. Also, all those disbanded units no longer requiring upkeep would free up too much funds and lead to an even faster economic growth.

    What I do after a campaign is to march levy troops back to the province they were levied from, in order to simulate disbandment. Professionals and mercenaries may be sent to other provinces or disbanded. Units that do have some plausible excuse to settle in other provinces (migrants, settlers etc) may be sent to new provinces as well.
    I recommend a pugio rather than a spear, because in close quarters combat, a dagger will serve you better than a spear.

    Rad, 2016.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Houserules

    Every settlement has as governor, every stack has an FM leading it. The only exception to this rule is if the governor is acting against enemies in his province. If you don't have any spare FMs, you either wait until one Comes of Age or is adopted, or you build an Allied Government to keep the conquering FM free.

    Only the FL or FH leads the main army, and the other one is governor of the capital. For a long stretch of the game, I tend to only have one army.

    Never start wars with other factions, wait for them to make the first aggressive move. Once you defeat their armies, take no more than one province from them, until the next war.

    Don't retrain; send reinforcement stacks to merge in to replace your losses.

    Minimum garrison size is 4 (usually two levy spearmen, a levy javelineer and a levy missile unit), increase for larger settlements. The capital should keep a reserve of better quality units on hand.

    When composing an army:
    A "full stack" is no more than 16 units.
    No more than one elite unit - Agema and equivalents go only with the FL/FH.
    No more than 2 of any unit, not only does this create variety, but it makes resupply more complex. If you want 4 phalanxes in your army, that means they have to be of different types, eg 2 x Phalangitai, 1 x merc phalanx, 1 x levy phalanx.
    No more than 4 cavalry units - including FMs. No more than half of this can be melee/heavy cavalry (again FMs are included in this).
    No more than 2 dedicated missile units (archers/slingers) - though this would be harder with eastern/steppe factions.
    It began on seven hills - a historical house-ruled Romani AAR
    Heirs to Lysimachos - a semi-historical Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR
    Philetairos' Gift - a second attempt at an Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  12. #12

    Default Re: Houserules

    Some interesting ones here.

    @Quintus: Interesting, I do most of these already. I hadn't considered using reinforcements to replace losses though. I shall start doing this.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Houserules

    Quintus always has the best house rules. Though I remember 2.5 years ago or something, your recommended stack size was 14 even (which I did and found it pretty fun, plus aside from the extra challenge you get less expenditure to deal with as a bonus), so you've grown more lenient.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Houserules

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    Every settlement has as governor, every stack has an FM leading it. The only exception to this rule is if the governor is acting against enemies in his province. If you don't have any spare FMs, you either wait until one Comes of Age or is adopted, or you build an Allied Government to keep the conquering FM free..
    How to solve a puzzle then:
    - the game engine tends to equal the number of the generals to the number of the settlements
    - if every settlement must have a governor then you need to recruit an allied governor
    - this means the engine stops giving children
    - this means in the long run (when all children present at the beginning for the game come of age) the faction either has only allied governors or just stops to expand.
    ?

  15. #15

    Default Re: Houserules

    Quote Originally Posted by charlieh View Post
    Some interesting ones here.

    @Quintus: Interesting, I do most of these already. I hadn't considered using reinforcements to replace losses though. I shall start doing this.
    It frees you up from sending armies back to your heartland to cycle the units through the capital for retraining, as well. And adds a new concern about where to store your replacements once you've topped up the main stack (sometimes I stick them on the fleet).

    Quote Originally Posted by HarkonRules View Post
    Quintus always has the best house rules. Though I remember 2.5 years ago or something, your recommended stack size was 14 even (which I did and found it pretty fun, plus aside from the extra challenge you get less expenditure to deal with as a bonus), so you've grown more lenient.
    If I had more than one army, I might limit that to 14, but I've usually got only one. If I notice the CAI avoiding battles, I might drop it lower than 16.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jurand of Cracow View Post
    How to solve a puzzle then:
    - the game engine tends to equal the number of the generals to the number of the settlements
    - if every settlement must have a governor then you need to recruit an allied governor
    - this means the engine stops giving children
    - this means in the long run (when all children present at the beginning for the game come of age) the faction either has only allied governors or just stops to expand.
    ?
    I rarely expand beyond 10-12 settlements, the city-management mini-game becomes the prevalent item every turn after that point, which I find tedious. I haven't noticed any issues with the family tree at that lower end of territories.

    I do recruit Client Rulers extensively, but again at the lower number of settlements I haven't noticed it impacts children at all.

    And yes, I do stop expanding. If I'm playing Pergamon, once I've secured Anatolia, I don't really need much else. I might look to Thrace for the sake of completing Lysimachos' empire, but I have no interest in getting into the cauldron in Greece to the west, or heading further east into the Seleukid domains, or north into the rest of the lands bordering the Euxine Sea.
    Last edited by QuintusSertorius; December 03, 2017 at 11:44 AM.
    It began on seven hills - a historical house-ruled Romani AAR
    Heirs to Lysimachos - a semi-historical Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR
    Philetairos' Gift - a second attempt at an Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


  16. #16

    Default Re: Houserules

    One rule I want to implement in my future campaigns is having a FM "leading" a navy. It should make it risky knowing that naval battles results are always uncertain.

    I do like using 20 units stacks in major campaigns but in my recent carthage playthrough some war efforts are lead by 1/2 or 3/4 stacks. Also you don't have allot of elites to use with Carthage so I really don't have overpowered stacks. I think I use a reasonable armies composition for even I can't assure victory when fighting 1 vs 2+ odds. That or I'm really a bad player xD. Also, only one stack per war attack unless its really necessary.

    I try to retire my units after periods of 10/15 years with complete replacement afterwards so I don't get an economic surplus.

  17. #17
    Biarchus
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    Default Re: Houserules

    All attacking armies are led by FM. All cities need to have a governor if available.
    Historical army compositions with very little leeways from them, only historically plausible ones.
    Keep units as historical, and recruit them and move them together (say one Roman legion shown within the game, or a mercenary regiment). Garrisons too.
    Deliberately avoid battles in open field where i have a notable numerical/qualitative advantage, or siege assaults with overwhelming superiority, and avoid sieging a settlement till they sally out if it's easily possible.
    When playing Romani, conquer settlements in years they were in history (or speed them all up by same % to match the game's quicker pace than RL history one) and have them governed by types of government they were in history. If i don't have real history to go by, at least keep them plausible.
    If it happens that my general isn't too good, and i get say charged in the back by a rebel unit of xystophoroi, and lose almost all of my men cause i forgot to pay attention to general's unit, i let the consequences happen.
    If i have a fullstack army, i'll generally look to assault grouped enemy stacks to keep the challenge up.
    Taxes are held "historical". Generally hold them low except in times of dire need. Not "but i really want to get this building asap and i want these elite units" need.
    Keep military settlers or colonists represented by some sedentary units, or units which are made obsolete by military reform.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Houserules

    - no troops movements at all without an FM (an old habbit acquired playing DLV where captain-led contingents almost auto-rebel)
    - all cities must have an FM as governor
    - unless planning on installing an allied gov/client ruler, no expansion if no FM is available as a potential governor
    - historical and balanced army compositions
    - only one field/royal army at any one time. must be led by FL or FH. this can be complemented by an expeditionary force (when kingdom reaches mid-large size or in emergencies)
    - historical expansion whenever possible
    - historical alliances
    - decent garrisons depending on citiy size and unrest (5 units plus, not counting FMs)
    - education of youngsters in the capital (shipping there if necessary) until age of 20-21

  19. #19

    Default Re: Houserules

    Having made some modifications, I always try to think how a mod designer would turn a reasonable houserule into a game mechanism, inducing a desirable behavior from the player. And for many houserules proposed here, I see possibilities for doing so. For instance:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarkiss View Post
    - all cities must have an FM as governor
    The benefits of having a governor (income, public order) should be made so high that it really pays off for the player to have one (or the player has to bear serious consequences). For instance, in the SS6.4 the player couldn't recruit/build in a settlement without an FM so was there actually no need for a houserule.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarkiss View Post
    - unless planning on installing an allied gov/client ruler, no expansion if no FM is available as a potential governor
    A settlement without such an FM should be made very hard to keep. Eg. in the SSHIP the initial unrest (and then the normal unrest) is so high that you must have an FM and large army (and you build gallows immediately). There're settlements that you simply cannot hold if your FM doesn't provide 10+ public order. No serious need for a houserule.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarkiss View Post
    - historical and balanced army compositions
    Availability of troops (eg refill rates) and the prices should be made in such a way that a player keeps such composition. In the SSHIP I have very rarely the top-tier units in the army since they're prohibitively expensive - a balanced army is superior cost-wise to having an elite army. No serious need for a houserule.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarkiss View Post
    - only one field/royal army at any one time. must be led by FL or FH. this can be complemented by an expeditionary force (when kingdom reaches mid-large size or in emergencies)
    The BGRIV_E submod for the SS6.4 has two ancillaries types (War Councillor / Professional Training Staff) what induces such behaviour (there're 3 of each, so actually you can have 3 armies, but it may be limited if one prefers so). Little need for a houserule.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarkiss View Post
    - decent garrisons depending on citiy size and unrest (5 units plus, not counting FMs)
    The Public Order penalties might be done in such a way that a player indeed keeps such a garrison. My experience from the SSHIP is such that it's indeed better for me to keep such garrisons (see a table here). Little need for a houserule.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarkiss View Post
    - education of youngsters in the capital (shipping there if necessary) until age of 20-21
    Benefits from the education should be so high that everybody does it. I've made a submod for the SSHIP that makes the "education of young generals" providing such a big impact that you're way, way better off if you do it. Little need for a houserule.


    However, I don't know if it's possible to achieve the desirable outcome in some areas. My houserulesconcern those issues. For instance:
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarkiss View Post
    - no troops movements at all without an FM (an old habbit acquired playing DLV where captain-led contingents almost auto-rebel)
    Apparently it cannot be done since you cannot differenciate between the player and the AI what makes AI losing his armies very, very often.
    For those who want to play a historical mod in a medieval setting:
    try either the Stainless Steel Historical Improvement Project + minimods,
    or the Broken Crescent + Buff and Shine submod.
    ..........................................................................................................................................................................
    Reviews of the mods: SSHIP (2018), Wrath of the Norsemen (2018), Broken Crescent (2018).
    Minimods for the SSHIP: Generals' Traits fix (with Education of Generals), Provincial Titles fix.
    Short guides for the SSHIP: population growth, forts and watchtowers.
    Pros and cons of having Merchants in an M2TW mod.
    Home rules for playing a game without exploiting the M2TW engine deficiencies.
    Dominant strategy in Attila TW and Rome 2 TW: “Sniping groups of armies”.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Houserules

    Far too many of those things would be prohibitive to the AI, which doesn't "understand" any rule imposed that way. You can't guarantee the AI will use governors appropriately, and that may only come at the cost of them not leading any armies with FMs.
    It began on seven hills - a historical house-ruled Romani AAR
    Heirs to Lysimachos - a semi-historical Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR
    Philetairos' Gift - a second attempt at an Epeiros-as-Pergamon AAR


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