More than 200 killed in Zerg attack in Egypt

[athanaric]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42110223

An IS-affiliated local group claimed responsibility. Apparently they hit a mosque frequented by Sufis in northern Sinai, roughly between the Nile delta and Gaza, employing pretty sophisticated tactics to ensure maximum casualties. Those Sufis really had it coming, being Sufis and all that.

Gotta say, nothing garners you international sympathy for your tribe and ensures lasting prosperity more than bombing indigenous minorities or tourists. I wonder who's next, is it Copts, Jews, infidel tourists, Copts, or policemen? Either way, I'm sure there will be some apologist who will tell us it's all the fault of someone else (The West^TM? Secularism? Israel?), and those poor oppressed tribesmen have no choice other than murdering everyone who isn't from their tribe.


Update: now more than 300 dead, which makes it the bloodiest attack in modern Egyptian history, I believe.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/24/w...e=sectionfront

[Kyriakos]

RIP.

[HannibalExMachina]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42110223

An IS-affiliated local group claimed responsibility. Apparently they hit a mosque frequented by Sufis in northern Sinai, roughly between the Nile delta and Gaza, employing pretty sophisticated tactics to ensure maximum casualties. Those Sufis really had it coming, being Sufis and all that.

Gotta say, nothing garners you international sympathy for your tribe and ensures lasting prosperity more than bombing indigenous minorities or tourists. I wonder who's next, is it Copts, Jews, infidel tourists, Copts, or policemen? Either way, I'm sure there will be some apologist who will tell us it's all the fault of someone else (The West^TM? Secularism? Israel?), and those poor oppressed tribesmen have no choice other than murdering everyone who isn't from their tribe.

90%+ of the victims of islamist terrorism are muslims, thats nothing new. hooray for disengenious sock puppeting, and for people who can hardly contain their glee over a few less barbarian muselmans.

[athanaric]

90%+ of the victims of islamist terrorism are muslims, thats nothing new.

That's not the point. The point is to criticize the tribesmen who made the poor choice to throw in their lot with the worst people in the world, just because they are treated unfairly by the central government. Now everyone hates them.

hooray for disengenious sock puppeting, and for people who can hardly contain their glee over a few less barbarian muselmans.

Hooray for people who can read and understand sarcasm. Also, it's "disingenuous".

[Roma_Victrix]

RIP.

The largest single terrorist attack in modern Egyptian history has now claimed 305 lives, so perhaps the OP should be updated:

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/1125/92...tacked-mosque/

Hooray for people who can read and understand sarcasm. Also, it's "disingenuous".

It was obvious enough to me and I didn't detect any "glee" on your part that the Sufi mosque worshipers had been killed.

I'm not a fan of El-Sisi's tyrannical measures and despotism generally speaking, but his military response was appropriate enough. In fact, I think he should really pursue these bastards harder.

[Emperor Arcturus Mengsk]

I'm trying to understand if there is some kind of strategy behind these attacks.

No matter how I try to spin it, it doesn't seem so. I wonder don't they realize that by killing innocent people they alienate the vast majority of the civilian population and that means that they will never, ever, win?

-.-

They literally act like orcs.

[sumskilz]

I'm trying to understand if there is some kind of strategy behind these attacks.

No matter how I try to spin it, it doesn't seem so. I wonder don't they realize that by killing innocent people they alienate the vast majority of the civilian population and that means that they will never, ever, win?

They were very clear about the reason in their newsletter. They consider Sufism to be a manifestation of polytheism, therefore killing Sufis is a top priority.

[Roma_Victrix]

They were very clear about the reason in their newsletter. They consider Sufism to be a manifestation of polytheism, therefore killing Sufis is a top priority.

Yeah, we're not dealing with rational actors here. We're dealing with people who literally believe they belong to the one political state sanctioned and ordained by the Almighty, that all other peoples, Muslims included, are infidels destined for Hellfire. They believe that the End of Days is nigh and that they are literally bringing the world closer to the Apocalypse via the Sunni interpretation of Islam's eschatological claims and material found in the Hadiths (fighting the anti-Christ Dajjal and defeating a Western Christian army at Dabiq, Syria). Moreover, they have proven time and time again that they are willing to die for this specific cause, fighting to the death for it and engaging in suicide-by-cop in the West, where they would otherwise be living relatively cushier lives than in the Middle East.

And people still wonder why ISIS does the irrational things they do...

[NorseThing]

I do wonder whether the border between Gaza and Egypt can be feeding this problem? Refuge? Smuggling? Avoiding the authorities for petty if not more serious offenses? All in the name of Sunni supported political and religious factions.

In other words, can this be a result of the fiction of the Palestinian Authority falling apart piece by piece with each fanatic trying to grab the biggest piece remaining?

[Cyclops]

Wahhabism is the worst thing to happen to Islam since... I don't know, Genghis Khan? Timur i Lenk?

[Anna_Gein]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42110223

An IS-affiliated local group claimed responsibility.

Your article litteraly says :

No group has yet claimed the attack,

Way to start a thread. There is no "IS-affiliated local group" in the region. IS itself is present with an official province surprisingly named "Sinai".

Obviously facts do not stand in your way. Disgusting title by the way. The people killed are human. Not protoss.

That's not the point. The point is to criticize the tribesmen who made the poor choice to throw in their lot with the worst people in the world, just because they are treated unfairly by the central government. Now everyone hates them.

I am sure people butchered by tyrants such as Sissi will find comfort in this words : an European comfortably living in a democracy choosing a life of oppression and injustice for them.

I'm trying to understand if there is some kind of strategy behind these attacks.

The cleric served as an informer to Egypt armed forces. He was threatened multiple times.

In case you are wondering, such massacre in a mosque raised outrages even among IS supporter.

I do wonder whether the border between Gaza and Egypt can be feeding this problem? Refuge? Smuggling? Avoiding the authorities for petty if not more serious offenses? All in the name of Sunni supported political and religious factions.

In other words, can this be a result of the fiction of the Palestinian Authority falling apart piece by piece with each fanatic trying to grab the biggest piece remaining?

Palestinian fighters joined IS in the Sinai. Somehow Egypt enforcing a blockade over Gaza motivated some Palestinians to fight against Egyptian forces. What a surprise !

Update: now more than 300 dead, which makes it the bloodiest attack in modern Egyptian history, I believe.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/24/w...e=sectionfront

You are confusing it with the Rabaa massacre : 817 killed, over 3 500 wounded. It is not that old by the way : 14th August 2013

Guess the perpetrator ?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Sisi

[athanaric]

Your article litteraly says :


Way to start a thread. There is no "IS-affiliated local group" in the region. IS itself is present with an official province surprisingly named "Sinai".

So it's a faction of IS rather than an IS-affiliated local group and you're disingenuously splitting hairs.

Obviously facts do not stand in your way. Disgusting title by the way.

If only you had as much compassion to spare for Iranians who were killed as a consequence of their government cooperating with Al Qaeda. But I guess that's different. Gotta prioritize and all that.

I am sure people butchered by tyrants such as Sissi will find comfort in this words : an European comfortably living in a democracy choosing a life of oppression and injustice for them.

Whereas feigning sympathy, demanding "respect" from other people on the internet, praying etc. really helps.

I can't speak for others, but I don't feel any sympathy for people who choose to rebel against "tyrants such as Sissi" (do we have a source for Sissi - not the Empress, mind you - "butchering people"?) by mass murdering anyone who belongs to the wrong branch of Islam, or is a non-Muslim, or simply the wrong ethnicity. All these poor, "oppressed" people are doing with that is making their problems someone else's problems - often very deliberately so, as the victims of their noble acts of resistance tend to flee the country if native, or avoid the country if tourist. Let me ask you this: who in Egypt is oppressed by Copts, Sufis, apostates, and European tourists?

And remember, this is the internet. You have no way of telling who someone is and where they are really from. Besides, it's irrelevant.

In case you are wondering, such massacre in a mosque raised outrages even among IS supporter.

Yeah, I heard that was the case even among IS supporters on internet forums.

[Gäiten]

ghengis never made it that far west, so id go with lenk, who even was a muslim

Indeed, the worst enemies of Muslims are Muslims.

[paleologos]

I'm trying to understand if there is some kind of strategy behind these attacks.
No matter how I try to spin it, it doesn't seem so. I wonder don't they realize that by killing innocent people they alienate the vast majority of the civilian population and that means that they will never, ever, win?
...

The number one enemy of any militant religious group is any religious group that uses the same name (Islam in this case) but does not submit to the authority of the same theological structure.
It was no different with Christianity when access to political power was correlated with "piety" and conformity to established theological structures.
(Need I say "30 Years' War", Albigensian Crusade, Jacobite Wars? - and these are just the ones that came to mind without trying.)

[Gäiten]

Well...
It was no different with Christianity when access to political power was correlated with "piety" and conformity to established theological structures.
(Need I say "30 Years' War", Albigensian Crusade, Jacobite Wars? - and these are just the ones that came to mind without trying.)

Now I can live far more in peace and being secure after you remembered me of Christian religious conflicts of the past. When I might get attacked by Zergs I am convinced I will suffer happily because in past Europe had such bloody religious conflicts and there is no need nor right to protest against imported religious terroism of today.

[alhoon]

Please remember to stay to on topic and try to make posts that are contributing to the argument in a civil way even if you disagree with someone. Mentioning what a poster's agenda or personal beliefs may be is considered off topic unless he or she contributed them in this thread.

[Harith]

Let me ask you this: who in Egypt is oppressed by Copts, Sufis, apostates, and European tourists?

The same could be said of the fascist squads terrorizing the slavs, russians, jews, social democrats, disabled, etc. The same could be asked of the war lords in China and later on the communist death squads that cleansed the country of any ideological or otherwise opponent even as young as infants kids in kindergartens..

People's frustrations do not always manifest themselves in constructive ways. That's not to mention that the grievances in Sinai are not just religious, but of tribal, ethnic, sectarian, ideological and socio-economic complexity. And the insurgency existed long before Sisi, his election merely emboldened it for various reasons.

That being said, I'm not suggesting that the appropriate response is anything but security based. Far from it. However, I do believe that if Egypt, and other nations facing similar problems, are truly interested in solving the issue then they need to drain the swap of grievances that fuels sympathizes towards such groups and transforms people from merely disgruntled to this.

Of course you will always have extremists. But they won't be influential nor will they enjoy sympathy from the population. But to pretend it's a bunch of Muslims gone mad-er will mean the cycle will self perpetuate even more and I don't see how you can win it.

History has provided us with ample of evidence of pacification programs in India, Indonesia, China, Germany, UK, Italy, Ireland, Canada (Quebec), Sri Lanka, Rwanda. All of these were different in their own way and some were more violent than others, but they all tackled the issue on a multilateral level.

[Emperor Arcturus Mengsk]

If we take the example of pacifying Germany after WW2 and making it a country that can't even look at a swastika then I guess you need to bomb extremists until there's nothing but a crater and then throw money at them!

[athanaric]

The same could be said of the fascist squads terrorizing the slavs, russians, jews, social democrats, disabled, etc. The same could be asked of the war lords in China and later on the communist death squads that cleansed the country of any ideological or otherwise opponent even as young as infants kids in kindergartens..

But that's the point. And that's why I'm calling out the immense hypocrisy of people who would find excuses for these terrorists, while at the same time decrying other terrorists from other faiths and ethnicities who do similar things (but usually on a much smaller scale).
I also don't think that this is "senseless violence" as some would think. This, and many other examples in the Middle East and Africa, is pure Lebensraumpolitik with the clear aim to make the home regions of the respective perpetrators more ethnically and culturally homogenous by exterminating and/or expelling any other indigenous group with a different cultural, ethnic, or religious identity. It follows the same principles as 20th century totalitarianism in Europe and North Asia did.

As for the rest, I agree that there need to be long-term solutions, and generally a move away from the tribalist "winner takes all" mentality towards more democratic and republican participation (even ancient Rome had that, FFS). But violence against third parties is inexcusable in any case.

[Anna_Gein]

So it's a faction of IS rather than an IS-affiliated local group and you're disingenuously splitting hairs.

There is no "Faction of IS" in the Sinai. IS is in the Sinai. Is that difficult to understand ?

I am not splitting hairs. It is about the very nature of IS members in the Sinai. You name them as if they some dude one foot in IS, the other outside. It is stupid. It is ignorant.

Whereas feigning sympathy, demanding "respect" from other people on the internet, praying etc. really helps.

I have no sympathy nor respect for people denigrating the suffering of people living under a tyrannic power while they live comfortably elsewhere . In addition I have no sympathy to people caught lying. Especially when the subject is political.

If only you had as much compassion to spare for Iranians who were killed as a consequence of their government cooperating with Al Qaeda. But I guess that's different. Gotta prioritize and all that.

This is a grave accusation. I can not recall myself celebrating a terror attack in Iran. You have a link for that. Otherwise it is disgusting slander. It would be disgusting to use the murder of innocent people to win a forum dispute.

I can't speak for others, but I don't feel any sympathy for people who choose to rebel against "tyrants such as Sissi" (do we have a source for Sissi - not the Empress, mind you - "butchering people"?)

Literally in my first comment. You do not how to open a link ? Or is reading an issue for you ?

Serious question : Are you feigning ignorance by rhetoric ? You sound like you have not pay attention to Egypt since a decade.

. Let me ask you this: who in Egypt is oppressed by Copts, Sufis, apostates, and European tourists?

An unfortunate attempt at Wathaboutism.

So far the only claim of responsibility comes from a mysterious christian group. It is probably a fake but it is the only claim so far.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42110223

An IS-affiliated local group claimed responsibility.

No group has yet claimed the attack,

...

towards more democratic and republican participation (even ancient Rome had that, FFS).

LMAO