Total War Saga: Thrones of Britannia

[Dave Strider]

Really? Warhammer 1 and 2 battles last a ton longer than ones from Attila, etc for me.

Thrones has very quick battle times, though. VERY quick. I think the longest non-siege battle I had was like 10-12 minutes.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

There is a video on youtube of Lusted saying he purposefully took features out of TOB, so I think its fair to say the current dumbed down build of the game was a purposeful decision on his part. "Streamlining" has basically been his MO since he took over with Shogun 2 which basically lets them ignore working on game mechanics based around a good AI and replace that with forcing the player to focus on making decisions like what they have done with the settlements.

Link?

I can't find anything about it though.

[FrozenmenSS]

http://segabits.com/blog/2018/07/06/...a-games-doing/

Is it true that Thrones sold only 224,856 copies acording to a leak from Valve? Thats a New record guys

[thesmoosh]

I know I'm late to the party but holy crap, nice post. I pretty much agree with everything you except you said it much better. Saving this for future use.

Personally, I find siege escalation realistic and it is a shame it is not there in other games. In Medieval II you may besiege a settlement for 6 months, you attack and all the walls are intact, then within minutes the perfectly strong walls have been destroyed by your siege weapons. Is this better?

In relation to Darren's review, I posted him a comment but here is a more expanded version:

Some of what he considers as a drawback, I would consider as an advantage. For me a strategy game is about battles, the civ type features like building chains are a burden. It is not even realistic for some general or governor to appoint the building of a bakery or a tavern or silly stuff like that.

Battles can sometimes feel easy but plenty of players have struggled early on. They only become easy late in the campaign when you have huge surpluses.

The main interest of CA here is in improving immersion, such as unique settlements, historical names, historical events, the saint cults, historical family trees, etc, which are a plus. The level of immersion is unmatched. To say there is an issue with campaign shallowness and streamlining, is like saying the Pacific is shallow. To me it sounds like the dumbest criticism one could make, I cannot put it more mildly. Which other CA game goes into that kind of degree of historical authenticity?

Also the colour coding mentioned has been a feature since Rome II. Why is this now an issue? Also it is not as simple as Darren makes it sound, which to me it says Darren has not played the game much to notice. You can unlock chains such that allow you to train your men, which you would want in military cities, regardless of colour coding. You can also build things in your main settlements that relate to other things of the same colour in your main settlement and still make you a lot more money, despite that colour not being available in the unfortified villages.

The problem with sending a stack of marauders that cost as much as what you are sacking per turn is incompetence from the part of the human player. There would not be a problem if you sent a solitary general, because you are sacking just civilian homes and churches and the like, and you do not need an army for that. Only someone who has not played a strategy game before would send a full stack to sack an undefended settlement. They can play on easy difficulty until they get better.

I also feel that by the time you have enough food and money to raise more than 2 full stacks, the campaign is over. So the worry about having more than 2 full stacks does not apply, at least to short campaign victories.

You can choose to play longer but it is obvious this is going to be pointless, victory will be assured and the only real point would be to face the Normans. Whether you think it is justified to wait for so many turns and having to go through the tedious land grab for that, that's down to personality. The experience is different. If you expect long campaigns and a buildup similar to the more traditional games, I guess you would be disappointed. I think you will feel better, if you are expecting a different kind of game than what you're used to.

I also completely and utterly disagree that replayability is low, I think it's high in the sense that every campaign develops differently the next time, even if you are trying to develop it the same as the previous one. Many random events change how your campaign develops. Replayability is higher than ever before. Just play the same campaign a second time.

I feel that Darren makes some interesting points but sounds so negative throughout and trying to find a fault so hard that I really think he somehow feels that condemning such a great game makes him sound like he is a super good player or reviewer, like criticising the Beatles or something. Maybe he has a grudge about something unrelated.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[Daruwind]

http://segabits.com/blog/2018/07/06/...a-games-doing/

Is it true that Thrones sold only 224,856 copies acording to a leak from Valve? Thats a New record guys

Yup, we already covered it in general topic because there are owner numbers for all TWs except Shogun 2.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-player-counts

While I like it, I also think CA did mistake by releasing ToB as standalone game. It should be Attila´s DLC. Semi-standalone like FotS for Shogun 2. It would redeem some performance issues, possible allow discount for original Attila game/DLCs and such. This way, it is very weak in comparison with any other standalone game. And not so flashy and shiny. Simply people looking at past games like R2/Attila and new toys like Whs and 3K, ToB is weak in comparison...

Still WH looks like massive success. So far almost 3 mills copies so it is catching much older games like R2/Empire :-)

[PointOfViewGun]

http://segabits.com/blog/2018/07/06/...a-games-doing/

Is it true that Thrones sold only 224,856 copies acording to a leak from Valve? Thats a New record guys

While the numbers for ToB might look underwhelming the picture it shows is no failure for TW. They have 4 of the top 5 titles, and ToB still takes a spot in the list making millions of dollars for them.

[Daruwind]

While the numbers for ToB might look underwhelming the picture it shows is no failure for TW. They have 4 of the top 5 titles, and ToB still takes a spot in the list making millions of dollars for them.

But consider this, if ToB has pretty low numbers, why make any other smaller scale TWs in the future? Like TW Alexander..Last year CA explained that ToB is suppoed to be a from category of standalone smaller Saga titles. And with these numbers it could be very well the last one for near future...

[SturmChurro]

I think it depends if it will continue to sell. I can see them making more, but now they may go more mainstream. Maybe give newer ones similar treatment to like 3K, on a lesser scale. ToB was pretty niche in itself, it probably owuld have sold more peddled as "Arthur" or something along those lines (Just an example of what I mean).

[PointOfViewGun]

But consider this, if ToB has pretty low numbers, why make any other smaller scale TWs in the future? Like TW Alexander..Last year CA explained that ToB is suppoed to be a from category of standalone smaller Saga titles. And with these numbers it could be very well the last one for near future...

Standalone smaller titles that still makes money for them. It's about maximizing the potential of the studio. They already expected ToB to have lower numbers. It was a smaller game with a smaller price for a smaller crowd. Within context its hard to say it managed to pull low numbers. The question is, if it makes money, why not make it?

[Daruwind]

Definitely looking at the Valve leak, TWs are selling long after release. So yeah, basically any game will sooner or later pay for itself.. My questions is more about if they will not change direction for more lucrative and accepted games/DLC/work. Basically look at current projects: WHs - success, R2 new content - success else they would not continue in it...have you seen new update content? Family trees? That´s the hype for next DLC... 3K are next big project, ToB - expecting only blood DLC ..nothing else. From all the current project it is possible the weakest result....I´m not saying it is bad product only that I would not be suprised if CA changed the formula or re-think Saga game.

Because it is supposed to be smaller project, without many additional DLCs, the project cannot get rich/big enough and cannot compete with other projects. Because you have to spend a lot resources to have generic factions etc etc while other games will simply later flash them out with additional DLCs. Here you have to spend more resources to flash them out enough because you cannot use excuse ..will be improve later. Just one example.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

The question is, if it makes money, why not make it?

Exactly how the industry works. Todd Howard told a few days ago something similar for Skyrim. We'll keep serving the same engine-stuff as long as you're buying it.

[Daruwind]

Exactly how the industry works. Todd Howard told a few days ago something similar for Skyrim. We'll keep serving the same engine-stuff as long as you're buying it.

While EA, Ubisoft and maybe Activison are moving from single player games to games as services,online games because that´s the biggest money income right now. Heck some games next year will have Battle Royale mode instead of any singleplayer campagin (some FPS shootes black ops? , not sure now, battlfield?..) EA even saying they don´t want to make too much Star Wars games per year...so only trying the best possible in their eyes. Not RTS + Simulator + RPG + Shooter....only Battlefront II got green light, they even cancelled singleplayer game from Star Wars because it is not the most lucrative spending of money to gain more money ;-)

Projects like Witcher 3 and TeS are getting rarer and rarer... :/

I think even TW has so many posible expansions..like now R2 could easily get Alexander as big expansion or may be Saga game? We would find enough pros for such settings quite easily! ;-) But they are probably more things behind curtains that influence decisions that we don´t know right now...

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

While EA, Ubisoft and maybe Activison are moving from single player games to games as services,online games because that´s the biggest money income right now. Heck some games next year will have Battle Royale mode instead of any singleplayer campagin (some FPS shootes black ops? , not sure now, battlfield?..) EA even saying they don´t want to make too much Star Wars games per year...so only trying the best possible in their eyes. Not RTS + Simulator + RPG + Shooter....only Battlefront II got green light, they even cancelled singleplayer game from Star Wars because it is not the most lucrative spending of money to gain more money ;-)

Projects like Witcher 3 and TeS are getting rarer and rarer... :/

I think even TW has so many posible expansions..like now R2 could easily get Alexander as big expansion or may be Saga game? We would find enough pros for such settings quite easily! ;-) But they are probably more things behind curtains that influence decisions that we don´t know right now...

I totally agree.

[LestaT]

Yup, we already covered it in general topic because there are owner numbers for all TWs except Shogun 2.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-player-counts

While I like it, I also think CA did mistake by releasing ToB as standalone game. It should be Attila´s DLC. Semi-standalone like FotS for Shogun 2. It would redeem some performance issues, possible allow discount for original Attila game/DLCs and such. This way, it is very weak in comparison with any other standalone game. And not so flashy and shiny. Simply people looking at past games like R2/Attila and new toys like Whs and 3K, ToB is weak in comparison...

Still WH looks like massive success. So far almost 3 mills copies so it is catching much older games like R2/Empire :-)

I think ToB will sell less as a DLC for Attila. This because people who may want to buy ToB but did not have Attila will have to buy both, which may reduce the numbers somehow.

200k will probably net around 6 million dollars and since I believe the cost if developing the game is less than 1 million (reused engine etc), the gane still make lots of money which can be generated for future Saga games.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

I think ToB will sell less as a DLC for Attila. This because people who may want to buy ToB but did not have Attila will have to buy both, which may reduce the numbers somehow.

200k will probably net around 6 million dollars and since I believe the cost if developing the game is less than 1 million (reused engine etc), the gane still make lots of money which can be generated for future Saga games.

AFAIK their plan is to milk the Saga series for good.

[Daruwind]

New blogpost as interview with Jack Lusten:
https://www.totalwar.com/blog/blood-...or-jack-lusted

The most important part probably is lower. Modding tools are great plus, sadly there is no word about possible future content after Blood pack DLC..

What is the Assembly Kit and what will it contain?
Jack: The Assembly Kit is how we release official mod tools for Total War games. The Thrones Assembly Kit will be available as a beta via the Tools menu in your Steam Library in the next week or two, and will be immediately familiar to modders of Total War: ATTILA.
It will include the following tools:

• DaVE – Enables editing of the game’s database entries
• BOB – Enables processing of raw data such as textures, models, and animations
• TeD – Enables the creation of individual battlefields for land, sea, and sieges
• Terry – Enables the editing of campaign map aesthetics such as the heightmap, lighting, and props

What about the long-term future of Thrones of Britannia?
Jack: For now, we’re focusing on what improvements we can make to the game without losing the aspects many people enjoy.
The Thrones of Britannia Allegiance Update beta is available to try now. The Blood Pack will follow after the beta period when the final Allegiance Update is ready to be pushed to all players.

[PointOfViewGun]

New blogpost as interview with Jack Lusten:
https://www.totalwar.com/blog/blood-...or-jack-lusted
The most important part probably is lower. Modding tools are great plus, sadly there is no word about possible future content after Blood pack DLC..

While they indeed don't name anything about what DLCs they might make for the game the new overhaul update is an indication that they're planning to do more with it. Otherwise why go forward with this major update?

[Daruwind]

Honestly no idea. Probably one major update was planned from beggining. Confusing fact for me is, from very beggining there was only one DLC in steam DB. IF they were planning DLCs, they would be there probably and Blood pack is similar to Blood and Gore from WH1/2 meaning it should be there too from beginning...

I like the changes, additions. With little more time and content it could be pretty good.

[♔Greek Strategos♔]

We surely could use TED for Rome 2.

[Daruwind]

SteamDB for ToB was updated and the only one DLC for ToB is now showing connection for Blood DLC....it looks like no more faction/content/whatever DLCs are planned for ToB (planned things are usually on DB from release date, unplanned things like Norsca/R2 are added later...FLC usually around release date)
https://steamdb.info/app/884620/subs/