New diplomatic and POR2 Proposals

[Starsmil]

Hello Dresden! New political update (beta) came out and I have some idea about it. Now player can send a man (diplomat) to other faction to improve relations with them. I propose to expand this feature and make (via script or somehow) the only way to enter into diplomatic relations with another state is to send a person there. So the button of diplomacy will only light up when you have sent a person to any country to negotiate. It looks more historical, because it is difficult to have contact with all factions at any time you wish (especially with hostile ones). Unsuccessful contact attempts and limited travel time will make opportunity to do diplomacy more valuable for the player. Also rank of diplomat can rise treaties' success.

The second thing is about People of Rome script implemented in DEI. I know that you changed it some way. Is any chance to make naval recruitment not only from Faction's capital? Existing model looks wierd when you have a city far away from capital and need some sailors for the ship only from thousands miles away.

And last thing about effect_bundle_keys for POR2. As I see you added 2 keys:
PoR2_region_noble_base
PoR2_region_middle_base

I propose to add 2 more keys for religion:
1. majority_religion_own
2. majority_religion_other
So when the region have majority of your own religion, you can hire units with more moral/attack (etc.) And if your religion is not major, you get minus 2 recruitment points, bad moral and so on. This will add more weight to religions I think.

Regards!

[Starsmil]

About naval recruitment only from faction's capital, I propose to change that also because my friend got the situation in his campaign when he lost almost all capital's population after sieges and looting, and now he is not able to recruit any naval units...The solution could also be a script with the transfer of the capital to another city. But probably it's even more difficult to integrate into the game.

[Vardano]

Game limits the number of diplomats you can have and that was not a case in reality. And then again you can contact other factions if only you encountered them already, usually one turn is 3 months in this game so it is enough time time to deliver any message.

[PietrolEremita]

1) no, just no. One of the few things I didn't like in mtw2. A lot of tedious micro for nothing. And what the above poster said.

2) that would be ideal but I think it is a game limitation. Try to recruit from other regions in the province where your capital is, they have access to the same roster but have a different manpower pool

3) no, just no. It would kill AoR troop recruitment. The best thing would be to add a minimum culture to recruit certain elite troops like mtw2 did but this would be mostly redundant with the pop system that already simulates that. Hard pass

[Starsmil]

@Vardano, In realty u think u could send tens of diplomats all over the world and make relations with others? 3 months is enough time only for skilled diplomat to go to other country and make good treaty for his lord. It is way more realistic than magical "flick of a finger" vanilla diplomacy. Btw It is possible to increase number of diplomats in game tables. Make 3-5 in a turn will be enough I think. The question is only about how to make it work via scripts. Waiting for Dresden reply!

@PietrolEremita,
1) in MTW2 diplomats go on map here and there. It was annoying. My proposal is competly different.
2) it is not game but script limitation. The problem is in wierd system of manpower pool like I said.
3) It will not affect AOR in any case, it just about add some effects to religion in the game. Pop system already has religion pop modifiers. It will be nice to add effects to them.

[Beedo83]

You could abide by a house rule you set for yourself to only initiate diplomacy after sending a statesman. I might try this, I personally think it is an interesting idea. I think it's too severe to implement as a rule for everyone who plays DEI though.

[Starsmil]

@Beedo83, Thanks that you appreciated this idea! DEI is serious mod for serious players and new diplomats' feature can be useful. Anyway, if it will be done, it may be used as submod. But the question is how implement it is open.

[Starsmil]

So is there a man on this Forum that also think that sending diplomat to make treaties will add immersion to the game and able to implement this idea?

[Tenerife_Boy]

[QUOTE=Starsmil;15444032]Hello Dresden! New political update (beta) came out and I have some idea about it. Now player can send a man (diplomat) to other faction to improve relations with them. I propose to expand this feature and make (via script or somehow) the only way to enter into diplomatic relations with another state is to send a person there. So the button of diplomacy will only light up when you have sent a person to any country to negotiate. It looks more historical, because it is difficult to have contact with all factions at any time you wish (especially with hostile ones). Unsuccessful contact attempts and limited travel time will make opportunity to do diplomacy more valuable for the player. Also rank of diplomat can rise treaties' success./QUOTE]
This idea would be brilliant.

[UltimateTobi]

If the AI isn't bound to that rule, it'd be extremely tedious for the human player, since AI can do diplomacy with everyone (except you, since you're bound to that rule), and you can only do so much diplomacy, depending if those diplomats are limited in number, and if they have to stay in regions owned by the desired AI faction.

[Starsmil]

Of course this mod could affect only the player. It makes game harder and diplomacy more important, cause it happens that u simply dont have time to make needed treaty or something occurred to your diplomat in the trip. This mod can make diplomacy a little bit closer to real life.
Mechanically, it should work like this: the diplomat was sent and reached fraction X? If yes, the button of diplomacy with this faction lights up.

[Tenerife_Boy]

I thought it was a good idea until someone in the team slap me with Medieval 2 old times....it was horrible as f* having to walk around the map. Thankfully, this mechanic is removed since Empire. ç
I take back what I said.

[Starsmil]

@Tenerife_Boy, wow, so you have seen diplomats walking on R2 campaign map with last political update like in MTW2 game? Where is the point of your fear?

[Dresden]

I don't think its possible to remove diplomatic relations like that, as far as I know.

[Tenerife_Boy]

No, what I'm saying is that your idea is like going back to Medieval 2 tw. where you have to send your diplo everywhere to get a diplo relation. Add to that the fact that we have very much limited diplomats. It will be tedious.

[Starsmil]

@Tenerife_Boy, in MTW2 u had to move them as agents on the map. In R2 is just 1 button "Send". Where is the similarity? In that ages u had to send men to negotiate with other factions, u know. 3 men a turn is OK, imho. High-speed trains and delegations were not yet invented. We are trying here to make game more similar to life conditions, or magic smartphone AIO 1-click diplomacy is veritable? oh..

@Dresden, thanks for answer, but its better to ask script makers, i think. Great if you did it. I saw strange bug, when u make rebel faction playable by AI and give them a region (it was in WOS camp), when he offer u some treaty, so after that Diplomacy button does not light up for 1 turn. So we can switch OFF it some how ))

And what about my 2 other proposals?

[UltimateTobi]

@Tenerife_Boy, in MTW2 u had to move them as agents on the map. In R2 is just 1 button "Send". Where is the similarity? In that ages u had to send men to negotiate with other factions, u know. 3 men a turn is OK, imho. High-speed trains and delegations were not yet invented. We are trying here to make game more similar to life conditions, or magic smartphone AIO 1-click diplomacy is veritable? oh..

Well then why just three? I think, even back in the day, factions were able to send more than three diplomats. I wouldn't call three close to life conditions. It's just an artificial barrier to prevent the player. And if you leave out the number limitation, what is left? Our current diplomacy system. If you discover a faction with an agent or via trade route, just imagine you've sent a diplomat. No need to add extra clicks.
UNLESS you make the player pay a set amount of Treasury per diplomat, but I don't think that's a good idea as well.

[Starsmil]

@UltimateTobi, The current system of diplomacy is when in your capital always are ambassadors of 50 countries, including your enemies. For u it is ok, for me not.

[UltimateTobi]

@UltimateTobi, The current system of diplomacy is when in your capital always are ambassadors of 50 countries, including your enemies. For u it is ok, for me not.

That is how it works in almost every strategy game with a diplomacy aspect. Whether you manually send 50 diplomats or just manage 50 diplomacy connections in a screen. The one is tedious and time-costly/or even Treasury-costly, the other is simplified.

Although I think 50 is exaggerated. You have 15-20 at most, and any faction can muster 20 diplomats and have them at other factions. Whether they travel by horse or a train, they will always be at their target within one turn (3 months).
If you have them run around manually, they may take years to reach a faction, which isn't realistic at all.
If you want a button that says Send to click, you may as well have no button that says Send at all, since it's just one more click to do.

I am all for realism, but unless you can make it worthwhile to have such a mechanic, rather leave it out, especially if the player is the only one bound to that rule.

[Starsmil]

Great fantasy, man.