Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

**Alwyn** · November 11, 2017, 11:56 AM

I like the look of the revised political system, in which we can see which regions are controlled by other families, other families have traits (which we can use to buy their support) and features such as the ability to hire statesmen as well as more obvious connections between what happens on the campaign map and in battles and faction politics (such as winning battles with another party's generals to increase their loyalty and avoid civil war). I found this review by RepublicOfPlay helpful.

While the patch clearly won't make everyone happy, particularly people who wanted a family tree, it sounds like this patch makes some good changes. I found the comment about family trees quoted by Welsh Dragon (on the previous page of this thread) helpful, even though I know some players will see it differently. Reducing the damage done by agent poisoning sounds sensible and I look forward to experimenting with changes of government as well as seeing secession and civil war happen.

**Daruwind** · November 11, 2017, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by PikeStance

This is an excellent post

You make some very good points here. Attila was probably victim of market satiation. Apart from the fact it was released not long after Rome II, Paradox, another popular company released a number of expansions for some popular titles and 2016 saw the release of two more based games. The expansion could had boosted sales for Attila, but the safer bet was to use Rome II as the platform given the length of time between now and the last release of DLCs for Attila. I would not be surprise to see Attila being the platform in the future if this expansion proved to be success. I think it safe to say this is the most comprehensive "make- over" we have seen from CA, so depending how it plays this could be a big win for CA.

And it is exactly the same logic why we will see FotS standalone Saga game for Attila. With Rome 2 CA can easily expect almost everybody to own it already while with Attila there is way less base game among people...thus standalone. And if Saga game prove to be good, it will in turn boost sales of Attila...in next sales. :-)

**PikeStance** · November 11, 2017, 01:33 PM

Is there a reason why people are using the term "patch" interchangeably with "expansion." They are two different things.

**Roman_Reenactor** · November 11, 2017, 01:40 PM

Hello CA,

I have for you some suggestions, because there are some historical mistakes and wrong interpretations.

I like new units cards style. These are very nice!

Suggestions

**vonVince** · November 11, 2017, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by PikeStance

Is there a reason why people are using the term "patch" interchangeably with "expansion." They are two different things.

Well, there is the patch with new features that everyone gets whether or not they buy the expansion.

**Welsh Dragon** · November 11, 2017, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by PikeStance

Is there a reason why people are using the term "patch" interchangeably with "expansion." They are two different things.

Not sure who you're referring to. In case it was me....

When I'm saying "patch" or "update" I mean Power & Politics, the free update which overhauls the politics system and makes some other changes and bug fixes.

When I'm saying "DLC" or "expansion" I mean Empire Divided, the paid DLC which adds the new Crisis of the Third Century campaign.

All the Best,

Welsh Dragon.

**vonVince** · November 11, 2017, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by Roman_Reenactor

Hello CA,

I have for you some suggestions, because there are some historical mistakes and wrong interpretations.

I like new units cards style. These are very nice!

Suggestions

Hello - welcome to the forum: excellent first post! If you want to increase your chances of someone at CA seeing this, then you should also post this at the the official Total War forum.

**eXistenZ** · November 11, 2017, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by Welsh Dragon

They've reduced the casualties caused by poison actions, and made it so you cannot use manipulation to exceed your agent limits, which is what they said in the stream. Which may address some of the issues, while still keeping the gameplay element of deciding how to use your agents. Offensively? Defensively? Or a mix of the two.

which doesnt fix the main issue with agent abuse/spam: an entire army stopped for a whole season by one man....

lets hope the modders can do something decent with this catastophy

**Roman_Reenactor** · November 11, 2017, 02:11 PM

Thank you.

I wrote in their forum first, but they didn't publlish my post.

**Emperor Arcturus Mengsk** · November 11, 2017, 03:07 PM

HMfgm... I tried the beta for a bit yesterday, the campaign ended up being boring super fast despite the new features in politics.

This is personal preference I guess, but I have grown accustomed to liking a lot more detail and a lot more management in the campaign map side of things. Probably reason why I got bored of WH so fast. I didn't mind the fantasy setting, I found the complete lack of campaign management boring.

Attila was a step in the right direction by reintroducing sanitation, diseases, governors but now they took some of that and added that to R2 instead of adding even more features to Attila which was more fleshed out, so now we have 2 old titles, somehow fleshed out.

I guess one could argue that they are using R2 as a testing ground for their next historical title, and maybe we will see these features in the next title but I don't know anymore.

Warhammer 2 was actually the first title that I haven't bought on release yet. It was actually the title that broke the chain of "I see Total War, I buy immediately" for me.

And they way I'm feeling it right now I'm not going to buy at all, unless they bring out some groundbreaking changes to the campaign management for WH 3.

And about Empire Divided DLC, I don't see my self buying that either. Meh, I wish they would go more to the direction that I like but I'm just one less customer I guess

**Welsh Dragon** · November 11, 2017, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by eXistenZ

which doesnt fix the main issue with agent abuse/spam: an entire army stopped for a whole season by one man....

Which is a tool available to both the player and AI, and which can be countered somewhat by using your agents defensively. I really don't see the issue.

Originally Posted by eXistenZ

lets hope the modders can do something decent with this catastophy

I feel you are rather exaggerating by calling this a catastrophe. But then again, we already know you and I have different views on this game.

All the Best,

Welsh Dragon.

**eXistenZ** · November 11, 2017, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by Welsh Dragon

Which is a tool available to both the player and AI, and which can be countered somewhat by using your agents defensively. I really don't see the issue.

When you have 3 agents at max, and you have 4 AI's against you (we all know how wonky the diplomacy is), that becomes an issue, trust me. I had to give up on my veni vidi vici attempt because of it. Defeating the enemy armies? no problem. Dealing with their agent spam? a lot more trouble.

Also, not all modmakers are gonna update their mod to the new version (because they have moved on), so in my view this update breaks a lot more than it fixes. Thats where the real problem lies

**Daruwind** · November 11, 2017, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by eXistenZ

When you have 3 agents at max, and you have 4 AI's against you (we all know how wonky the diplomacy is), that becomes an issue, trust me. I had to give up on my veni vidi vici attempt because of it. Defeating the enemy armies? no problem. Dealing with their agent spam? a lot more trouble

Use agents to preemptively kill theirs agents, stop armies. I never have big issue with AI agents, i can use them way more effectively than AI. Just have all possible agents in right place and level them up....well if you are caught in middle game in your situation well your mistake ;-) This is not critique...but hard truth from playing Legendary Shogun 2 and newer titles...either you are using system to get advantage or hope the system won´t be used against you. I don´t like gamble...

**eXistenZ** · November 11, 2017, 04:32 PM

Using agents is a gamble. "either I stop this army and get a free walk to the capital, or not", all because of a coin flip

Besides, level up an agent in poisoning and he can still kill 1/3 of the garrison in one action. I use agents as well, but they were much too powerfull, and that has not been fixed

**zznɟ ǝɥʇ** · November 11, 2017, 04:40 PM

I've played a Roman campaign since the beta update and think the changes made are all very good. I could actually tell you who my emperors were through the game, who was my 'Caesar,' as in the leader who declared an empire after the second civil war came to a close.... Previously I'd never even know my leader's name.

I've seen a lot of feedback that it's too easy to gamify the family/faction features. I'm less sure if you're playing on higher difficulty. There's a lot of unknowns - you think you have an army all set with your man leading it, but an agent could assassinate him and the only characters available may be from your rival party...then you're not just going to walk away from this war and it's one of the only armies in the area...you get what I'm saying. Besides, in history, leaders often had a hunch when there was a rebellious army or troublesome faction. It was the politcking to defuse those situations that led to revolt, or not. That's pretty well portrayed here.

One more story: had a great general from my 'family' conquer Africa...but he was one of 4-5 members and not likely to ever become emperor. So he created his own family and took the control of the territories with him. If I don't keep his successors in line, a revolt will see all of Africa go up. These are the stories that were never possible in Rome II before but are now.

All in all, it's a wonderful update and it breathes new life into the game. I'm excited to play the new DLC but this alone is great already.

**Theramines** · November 11, 2017, 05:05 PM

Which is a tool available to both the player and AI, and which can be countered somewhat by using your agents defensively. I really don't see the issue

[concerning agents]

With due respect to Welsh Dragon, it is an issue because it has absolutely nothing to do with ancient warfare. Furthermore, what is the point? The AI sends agents to annoy you and you counter that with your agents and nobody has achieved anything except to slow down turn times.
I simply do not understand CA's fetish for agents, which appears to get worse with each game. Agents nerfing or removal mods are consistently amongst the first and most popular mods on Steam for new Total War games. They occupy a layer of game resources that should be utilized differently, say, deeper diplomacy, which is consistently one of Total War's weakest points. However, I'm not a game designer so what would I know.

**General Maximus** · November 12, 2017, 05:01 AM

I don't think I will buy this on release. Maybe much later when a major discount happens, but not now. There are many reasons I am not excited for this:

- CA will still go the stupid route and make faction leaders invincible and unable to die even when 200 years old. I like to play games that last over generations, not just one single ruler.

- Ironically, Aurelian didn't live that long as emperor. He was assassinated within a short time of reunifying the empire. Seeing a 160 year old man if I play on would be hilariously bad. If your faction leader can even get assassinated that is.

- Playing a single ruler's life would've been justified if the scale and focus of the map was detailed. Instead, it is just another reskinned grand campaign with hardly any changes from Imperator Augustus campaign (which also suffered from the same invincible rulers problem).

- Honestly, this seems way too similar to Attila.

A collapsing Rome and barbarian invasions - check.
East beset by Sassanids - check. (now they don't have something like White Huns to keep busy)
"Civilization in decline" theme - check.
Some of the equipment from Attila is already seen in the screenshots, even though reforms on that scale didn't appear until Diocletian and Constantine.

- Still no family tree, which makes me wonder why did they not do this in Attila. Even though Rome is at this point openly a monarchy, and every other faction already was. So no way to make Diocletian rise through military ranks and become emperor like in real history I guess.

Family tree or even a hint of dynastic progression (like in good old STW and M1TW) gave characters real depth. Without it, Aurelian (just like Octavian in IE campaign) will just be another nameless face with 3 traits and 3 stats with a shinier uniform than others that lives on forever.

- The campaign will last...10-15 years probably? Personally I find this boring. Especially since even after reuniting Rome you can't "rule" or reform it much. Not without breaking immersion and getting your 160 year old Aurelian. Unless they add in a system for governors and provincial management that is.

- The new technology tree style sounds interesting. I hope it allows us to transition from the declining Principate "high-empire" style troops into refurbished and disciplined Late-Empire units after around 286 AD. But all in all, the small number of factions playable and weird focus on limited timeline means there not much interesting stuff to play with.

- Religions or "cults" are still far better represented and handled in Attila than Rome 2 ever could, looking at what is revealed so far.

- The UI in general needs improvement since release. Aside from the marble reskin, I don't see much on that regard.

- Those unit cards look amazing, but if they are exclusive to this DLC's campaign, and they have not reworked all unit cards for main game, I am not interested.

- There seem to be little info on how much they've worked on fixing issues with battles.

- Roads and bridges in campaign and battles are still going to be lame. They fixed it with Attila but never for this game.

- Where I live, this DLC costs as much as a decently large game, even with the 10% discount.

Overall this doesn't sound any different than a glorified mod. It has features that a good mod team could already create (and have already done so) with their mods. The campaign map is a clone of other ones. The factions play the same role from same locations they did in Imperator Augustus. The theme is not different from Attila, except with much less campaign features.

I was honestly hoping for an Alexander the Great campaign where you can play not only as Alexander but also as Persians and Nanda Empire.

Now, there are also many pro points that make me want to play this -

- Aurelian. 'Nuff said. He was a great general and commander, whose achievements are greatly underrated in Roman history. He took a collapsing empire and reunited it (albeit it was Diocletian who actually restored peace and stability). Any chance to play as this man is great.

- Zenobia sounds really interesting, given that I have yet to see a female faction leader and general in any TW game.

- Perhaps CA will listen and actually make this campaign worthwhile and add more features and variety, rather than a half-baked, modlike clone of grand campaign.

**Welsh Dragon** · November 12, 2017, 05:15 AM

Originally Posted by eXistenZ

When you have 3 agents at max, and you have 4 AI's against you (we all know how wonky the diplomacy is), that becomes an issue, trust me. I had to give up on my veni vidi vici attempt because of it. Defeating the enemy armies? no problem. Dealing with their agent spam? a lot more trouble.

Fair enough.

Originally Posted by eXistenZ

Also, not all modmakers are gonna update their mod to the new version (because they have moved on), so in my view this update breaks a lot more than it fixes. Thats where the real problem lies

Which is unfortunate. But I don't see "it will break some mods" as a reason not to make new content and patch the game. While I do empathise with those whose favourite mods may be broken, first and foremost these games are designed to be played unmodded, and so using mods is always a case of "use at your own risk." Not updating the game because of mods is to me a much greater problem.

Originally Posted by Daruwind

Use agents to preemptively kill theirs agents, stop armies. I never have big issue with AI agents, i can use them way more effectively than AI. Just have all possible agents in right place and level them up....well if you are caught in middle game in your situation well your mistake ;-) This is not critique...but hard truth from playing Legendary Shogun 2 and newer titles...either you are using system to get advantage or hope the system won´t be used against you. I don´t like gamble...

That's how I use them too. Some offensively, some defensively. Creating and maintaining your intelligence infrastructure is just as important as you military or economy.

Originally Posted by eXistenZ

Using agents is a gamble. "either I stop this army and get a free walk to the capital, or not", all because of a coin flip

Besides, level up an agent in poisoning and he can still kill 1/3 of the garrison in one action. I use agents as well, but they were much too powerfull, and that has not been fixed

Yes it's a gamble, which I think it should be. I also think if you or the AI take the time to invest in a high level agent, you or the AI deserve to be rewarded with a good payoff.

Originally Posted by Theramines

[concerning agents]

With due respect to Welsh Dragon, it is an issue because it has absolutely nothing to do with ancient warfare. Furthermore, what is the point? The AI sends agents to annoy you and you counter that with your agents and nobody has achieved anything except to slow down turn times.
I simply do not understand CA's fetish for agents, which appears to get worse with each game. Agents nerfing or removal mods are consistently amongst the first and most popular mods on Steam for new Total War games. They occupy a layer of game resources that should be utilized differently, say, deeper diplomacy, which is consistently one of Total War's weakest points. However, I'm not a game designer so what would I know.

Fair enough.

I'm a strong believer in adapting your playstyle to suit the game, rather than adapting the game to suit your playstyle. To me agents are a part of both the setting and the game, and so removing them would have a negative effect on both. Espionage has been a part of war as long as we have had war, and so I think it's important to represent that. I also don't have a problem with an agent being able to damage or stop an army. It's a bit difficult to break camp and march out if all your soldiers are either in the sickbay or the latrines.

That said, I'm open to CA making tweaks to Agents, like for example introducing some kind of modifier where by if an army or settlement has fallen afoul of an agent, they go "on alert" for further actions, giving them a buff that decreases the chance of successful agent actions that turn (and perhaps the next.)

I really don't see agents as an issue in the way some of you do. But I respect we feel differently. Maybe the best solution lies somewhere in between.

All the Best,

Welsh Dragon.

**LinusLinothorax** · November 12, 2017, 06:18 AM

Lol, and for loveless fantasy clone-army trash like this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

they seriously demand 17 bucks. This isn't even on Steam Workshop level.
Meanwhile, you can get this for free (Eras of Rome):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**Welsh Dragon** · November 12, 2017, 06:18 AM

Another interesting post from Total War Facebook:

Originally Posted by Total War

This starts before ATTILA; ATTILA starts in 395 AD whereas Empire Divided starts in 270 AD. In the 3rd century when Empire Divided is set, Rome is really going through arguably its most trying period yet. The Roman Empire is not only struggling with civil wars, famine, plague, banditry, and the agricultural repercussions of global cooling, it is also divided into three parts: The Gallic Roman Empire under Tetricus, The Palmyrene Empire under Queen Zenobia, and Rome proper under Emperor Aurelian, who rose through the military ranks and earnt his position through trust and dedication.

Aurelian wanted nothing more but to re-unite the entire Roman Empire under his rule. In a time where Emperors were being appointed and assassinated, there was a great deal of uncertainty for the Roman armies. Aurelian was a humble man but a fiercely strict leader who united the armies behind him. Through sheer willpower, quick thinking and leveraging his extensive military experience (spoiler alert) he achieved his goal and very cleverly united the whole world to the sway of Rome. Aurelian was genuinely one of the most effective Roman Emperors in terms of what he managed to achieve in such a short timeframe.

We’ll be posting articles about the history behind these three really interesting figures of the Roman Empire in due course, but suffice to say, while Rome as a whole is under threat, the geopolitical situation is very different to the cataclysmic collapses of Attila’s timeframe.

All the Best,

Welsh Dragon.

Thread: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

Thread Tools

Search Thread

Display

Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

Posting Permissions