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Thread: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

  1. #81

    Default Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

    I am not using the absence of evidence as evidence. It just gives them artistic liberties, which they used within a probable limit. What is the ending date of the campaign btw?

    As for the gladius and spatha thing: these two terms are used in science to distinguish between sword types regardless of their use in ancient literature. And the late gladius were already shaped like shorter versions of the cavalry sword and were eventually replaced by them. In the later antiquity there was no more difference between a cavalry sword and an infantry sword.
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  2. #82
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    Default Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

    The spatha was a celtic/gaulic cavalry sword that the Romans began to use in the Imperial Age.In crysis in the 3rd century was the transition the infantry to go from the Gladius to the spatha.So i dont see a problem using both swords

  3. #83
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    Default Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

    In the 3rd century and even into the 4th the Romans used both Spatha and Gladius swords (called Semi-Spatha then).
    The increased use of the longer Spatha sword began with the Antonine military revolution and got the main battle sword of the Romans with the Severan dynasty.

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  4. #84
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    Default Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

    Hey, not sure if y'all seen this, but i thought I share it. It is a "Let's Play" from the Total War Channel.



    It seems he is purposely trying to show case the features. (I am watching it now).
    Enjoy!
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  5. #85
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    Default Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

    Quote Originally Posted by Anna_Gein View Post
    Gladii were not "replaced" by spathae. They are the same things.

    The swords we classify as "gladius" varied in form and length over their existence (around 4/5 centuries). So did the sword we call "spatha" (9 centuries). However contemporaries source did not see such arbitrary and anachronistic distinction. For example Ammianus Marcellinus use the two words interchangeably. He did so not because 4th century soldiers mixed 4th century model swords with 2nd century swords but because the words were synonymous.

    While clear distinction between "gladius" and "spatha" make it easier for us to classify ancient swords and high medieval sword, it can mislead as well. People often assume wrongly 3th century roman footman adopted the earlier cavalry "spatha" which was a slashing sword specifically designed for cavalry. In truth footman swords organically evolved through centuries long process. After a long evolution toward shorter blades, roman swords evolved toward longer blades.
    Well, as gladius meant "sword" in general whereas spatha specifically referred to a long-bladed sword, the terms are not quite the same. One might say that the spatha (longsword) is a type of gladius (sword) though. Of course modern historians use these terms somewhat differently from ancient writers.

    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenmenSS View Post
    The spatha was a celtic/gaulic cavalry sword that the Romans began to use in the Imperial Age.In crysis in the 3rd century was the transition the infantry to go from the Gladius to the spatha.So i dont see a problem using both swords
    This is not quite correct. The transition from short to medium-length and long swords as the main "service sword" of the Roman line infantry actually largely preceded the 3rd century crisis (the transition began in the 2nd century). I guess the main distinction is whether the sword was worn on the right side (gladius) or the left side (spatha). I'll grant that the exact date is probably hard to pin down, but certainly legionary gravestones from the early 3rd century onwards depict long-bladed swords worn on the left side. The "sword transition" also coincides with the transition from the square scutum to the oval scutum (presumably to give the legionary more room to wield the longer blade).

    Whereas the shorter swords didn't disappear completely (and I think would be appropriate for some units, for example, as a sidearm for archers), it's fairly clear in my opinion that the line infantry of the legions were armed with spathae during this era. Furthermore, given that historical publications such as Osprey's books on the subject depict mid-to-late 3rd century legionaries as wielding spathae, I'm rather puzzled how CA managed to miss this detail.
    Last edited by Charerg; November 10, 2017 at 06:53 PM.
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  6. #86

    Default Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

    What bothers me in the battle video are as it has already been recognized that the scutum comes along without umbo. Furthermore, that all legionnaires wear the same type of helmet which, in my opinion, is complete nonsense.

  7. #87

    Default Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

    Sadly, Paradox went complete bonkers (or shall I say, Sims) with that model and locked themselves in a position that it's really impossible for them to make anyone happy, shamfur display.

    I don't care about the DLC but patch, well, it's a patch for a years old game, so it's good in any case. That old interview, at least for me, sounded like they would make a drastic change in a core system, and to be sure there's no fixing Politics without adding family trees. I'm not thankful or anything, it just seems that CA was influenced by other companies in this patch&free content trend, and saw an opportunity to do some PR management, considering how many of their core fans were left feeling burned by the debacle of R2TW. After all these patches, Rome still isn't the game it was claimed it would be, I haven't bought anything from CA since then, and quite possibly will not buy ever again.


    Quote Originally Posted by Boicote View Post
    CA is now using the same strategy used by Paradox: they introduce new mechanics for free in older games and, at the same time, they release new paid content to support their investment.
    I think it's a fair strategy because there's mutual benefits: CA gets "easy" money (they don't need to create completely new games and that's cheaper) and fans get more content for free for older games.
    Honestly, I prefer this way. Previously, the life cycle of TW games lasted only 2 years and some TW games were abandoned by CA without being entirely completed (yes, I'm talking about Empire: Total War). Hopefully, with this strategy we can see constant improvements in the game, no matter the release date.

  8. #88
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    Default Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

    Quote Originally Posted by Charerg View Post
    Well, as gladius meant "sword" in general whereas spatha specifically referred to a long-bladed sword, the terms are not quite the same. One might say that the spatha (longsword) is a type of gladius (sword) though. Of course modern historians use these terms somewhat differently from ancient writers.
    spatha referred specifically to long-bladed sword until all sword were long-blade sword. After that the words were synonymous.

  9. #89
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    Default Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    Hey, not sure if y'all seen this, but i thought I share it. It is a "Let's Play" from the Total War Channel.



    It seems he is purposely trying to show case the features. (I am watching it now).
    Enjoy!
    There are barely new features, it looks like a reskin of the grand campaign more than anything though. Just a few story events

  10. #90
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    Default Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

    Quote Originally Posted by Anna_Gein View Post
    spatha referred specifically to long-bladed sword until all sword were long-blade sword. After that the words were synonymous.
    After having a chance to refresh my knowledge of 3rd century-era Roman swords, I suspect you may be right. Although I may have somewhat over-emphasized the blade lengths (since the blade length of the 3rd century spatha varied, and some could be relatively short). However, the most important takeaway is that essentially the "gladius" of the 3rd century (ie. the Roman short sword), was virtually identical in terms of general shape and design with the spatha (to the point that they can be described as short-bladed spathas), as Prof pointed out in his last post.

    So, while medium-length swords similar to the Mainz-type gladius we have ingame would be ok, the problem is that 3rd century swords actually weren't of this design, regardless of blade length. However way you spin it, the Mainz gladius of Augustan times was not in use in the 3rd century.
    Last edited by Charerg; November 11, 2017 at 05:23 AM.
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  11. #91
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    Default Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

    Quote Originally Posted by eXistenZ View Post
    There are barely new features, it looks like a reskin of the grand campaign more than anything though. Just a few story events
    Is it?

    New Narrative Technologies
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    • Aurelian’s technologies chart the journey of an emperor who must reform the military, then unify and defend his empire.
    • Zenobia’s technologies tell the story of her rise to power.
    • Tetricus’ technologies reveal his Republican political views in an age of fractured empire.
    • Hormizd’s technologies portray him as a ruler living up to the image of his predecessors, the great kings of the past.
    • Cannonades’ technologies tell a tale of Gothic bloodlust, and the many challenges his people must overcome in order to unify and persevere.
    This approach is similar to Paradox "Ideas" development. This should allow the game to play differently if you choose a different path while playing the same faction. (speculating) At the very least, the specific "idea" development will create a different game experience than simply changing geographical position. Now, whether or not CA pulls this off or not is entirely different issue. At the very least , they are trying to provide a different gaming experience apart from a change in time period.
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  12. #92

    Default Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

    Romans surely had no concept of parade armor.

  13. #93

    Default Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

    Looking forward to this. I don't care very much for the Political stuff but having a new set of factions in a new scenario will be nice. I've about worn out Octavian in the Imperial Augustus campaigns.
    "The trouble with facts is that there are so many of them." - Samuel McChord Crothers

  14. #94
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    Default Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

    I noticed the Romans can recruit Pikemen in that video. Will no release be free of the glitchy nonsense that is pikes? haha
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    What have the Romans ever done for us?? apart from better sanitation and medicine and education and irrigation and public health and roads and a freshwater system and baths and public order... what have the Romans done for us?
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  15. #95
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    Default Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

    An interesting post from the Total War Facebook page Re: Why no family tree?

    In feature terms, there are much stronger candidates for overhaul in ROME II than adding a nice way to visualise your dynasty. We chose to overhaul politics as it had the potential to bring so much more to the game, and that’s what we’ve done. Politics now has more nuance, greater tangible consequences, and offers many underhanded (or indeed high-handed!) ways to affect your campaign game. You can erode an opposing political party to a point where it has no teeth. Or you can deliberately goad it so far through your actions that it breaks away in a secessionist fashion and declare war on you; effectively engineering your own civil war for fun and profit. And there’s a great deal more you can do besides. This provides substantially more gameplay, intrigue and consequence, so please don’t mistake it for a ‘poor substitute’ – it’s actually a much better one.
    Actually makes a lot of sense to me.

    All the Best,

    Welsh Dragon.

  16. #96

    Default Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

    Thats exactly what i think. Family tree is only a visualisation, no politics!

  17. #97
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    Default Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

    Werent agents supposed to be less powerfull? got a poisoned provisions, almost all movement points gone. Or is this another empty promise?

    EDIT and diplomacy is still as well. Non aggresion pact thats just been signed? apparently thats an empty promise


    was this update programmed by interns or something?
    Last edited by eXistenZ; November 11, 2017 at 10:31 AM.

  18. #98

    Default Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

    Im probably going to buy this Dlc
    But there are some thing i dont get form CA

    why is this not a Dlc for Attilla more , the game looks better and the dark look of Attilla was better for the setting of this Dlc
    also i think it was nice if CA made some updates too Attilla so it does not run like horse even on hi end setups

    the only reason more people play Rome 2 than Attilla is mods like DEI
    and that is now a problem becaus the Flc they releast allong site this Dlc
    and i think this can be the end of allot of mods ..

  19. #99
    Welsh Dragon's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

    Quote Originally Posted by eXistenZ View Post
    Werent agents supposed to be less powerfull? got a poisoned provisions, almost all movement points gone. Or is this another empty promise?
    They've reduced the casualties caused by poison actions, and made it so you cannot use manipulation to exceed your agent limits, which is what they said in the stream. Which may address some of the issues, while still keeping the gameplay element of deciding how to use your agents. Offensively? Defensively? Or a mix of the two.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandervR QPO View Post
    Im probably going to buy this Dlc
    But there are some thing i dont get form CA

    why is this not a Dlc for Attilla more , the game looks better and the dark look of Attilla was better for the setting of this Dlc
    Attila has less than half the sales than Rome 2, half the active players, half the peak concurrent players, runs well on less computers etc. In a lot of categories Rome 2 comes out on top. Even which is the better game is a matter of personal preference more than anything. So CA has chosen to make the DLC for the game with more players, so is more likely to sell more copies of the DLC. This benefits them, but also us, as it means with more predicted sales the DLC can have a higher budget, which in turn means more content.

    Also as 3rd Century is a transition point between the two eras, it could have been for either of them. They picked Rome 2. I think that was a good move.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandervR QPO View Post
    al
    so i think it was nice if CA made some updates too Attilla so it does not run like horse even on hi end setups
    I think if they knew how to, they probably would have. Attila tries to push the limits of what a 32 bit Total War game can do, which brings with it it's own problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandervR QPO View Post
    the only reason more people play Rome 2 than Attilla is mods like DEI
    and that is now a problem becaus the Flc they releast allong site this Dlc
    and i think this can be the end of allot of mods ..
    The importance of mods varies between players. There are many of us that play either vanilla or very lightly modded too. Plenty of people also play Attila with mods, so I disagree that mods are the only reason. Also DEI already has a beta update for the Power & Politics beta patch released. And if someone really wants to play with mods that no longer work, Patch 17 is now available from the Betas Tab on Steam.

    All the Best,

    Welsh Dragon.

  20. #100
    PikeStance's Avatar Dilly Dilly
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    Default Re: Total War: ROME II - Empire Divided

    This is an excellent post
    Quote Originally Posted by Welsh Dragon View Post
    Attila has less than half the sales than Rome 2, half the active players, half the peak concurrent players, runs well on less computers etc. In a lot of categories Rome 2 comes out on top. Even which is the better game is a matter of personal preference more than anything. So CA has chosen to make the DLC for the game with more players, so is more likely to sell more copies of the DLC. This benefits them, but also us, as it means with more predicted sales the DLC can have a higher budget, which in turn means more content.

    Also as 3rd Century is a transition point between the two eras, it could have been for either of them. They picked Rome 2. I think that was a good move.
    You make some very good points here. Attila was probably victim of market satiation. Apart from the fact it was released not long after Rome II, Paradox, another popular company released a number of expansions for some popular titles and 2016 saw the release of two more based games. The expansion could had boosted sales for Attila, but the safer bet was to use Rome II as the platform given the length of time between now and the last release of DLCs for Attila. I would not be surprise to see Attila being the platform in the future if this expansion proved to be success. I think it safe to say this is the most comprehensive "make- over" we have seen from CA, so depending how it plays this could be a big win for CA.
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