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Thread: A happy new year to all

  1. #1

    Default A happy new year to all

    Thanks for making this excellent modification!

    I've started a Scythian campaign and danggggg...

    First, since the mundus magnus map is so astoundingly huge, my back isn't to the wall, so to speak, anymore. I spent the first few years or so hunting down rebels and setting up watch towers so we could have some semblence of internal security.

    Then I took on the Greeks to the South. Big mistake.

    Anyway, this is an absolutely astounding mod, the kind that adds months or even years to the game's replayability.

  2. #2
    Kara Kolyo's Avatar Mikhail
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    Default Re: A happy new year to all

    Happy New Year guys!


    under the patronage of Perikles in the house of Wilpuri
    Proud patron of Cymera

  3. #3
    HopliteLysander's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: A happy new year to all

    Happy New Year!

    Thats cool, I have been wanting to try one of the far eastern factions. I started a campaign as the Armenians. I wiped out the Pontus before they knew what hit them but it just degenerated into a slug fest with the Seleucids. I loves the horse archers but boy, it can take a long time to pick apart a big enemy army with them.

    So whats up with the Greeks? Is it the Cretan archers that are a pain? I would think a heavy infantry based nation would get creamed by your horse archers, all those sieges might be tough though...

  4. #4

    Default Re: A happy new year to all

    Quote Originally Posted by HopliteLysander View Post
    Happy New Year!

    Thats cool, I have been wanting to try one of the far eastern factions. I started a campaign as the Armenians. I wiped out the Pontus before they knew what hit them but it just degenerated into a slug fest with the Seleucids. I loves the horse archers but boy, it can take a long time to pick apart a big enemy army with them.

    So whats up with the Greeks? Is it the Cretan archers that are a pain? I would think a heavy infantry based nation would get creamed by your horse archers, all those sieges might be tough though...
    I figured exactly the same thing.

    The Greek formation was highly irregular (the AI is smarter in this mod right? They seem to have adapted to the terrain admirably). They were using a few of the more basic spear units (the ones that are roughly equivalent to Roman auxilia), a few archers, and a bunch of mercenary horse archers.

    There's nothing that sucks the fun out of putting the smack down on those smug civilized punks like having to fight your own units.

    I was also totally unprepared for AI that's, well, you know, competent!

  5. #5
    HopliteLysander's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: A happy new year to all

    Wow, I had no idea the AI made such intelligent use of mercenary units! Just goes to show once more how much this mod kicks butt.

    I can see how that presents a challenge, horse archers are a pain, and when backed up by spearman and foot archers...Ouch! Whenever I played as the Greeks I recruited merc horse archers whenever I found them, there never seemed to be enough. They always leveled up super fast too. Nothing like riddling an enemy with arrows before crushing them with an heavy phalanx!

    I forget, do Scythians have a well armoured horse archer? Armenians have Cataphract archers I think but I have never played Scythia.

    I'm curious. I usually play as Greece, so what does the map look like when the AI is in charge? Has Greece crushed Macedonia and Thrace or do they just sit tight?

    Happy Conquering!

  6. #6
    RedFox's Avatar When it's done.™
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    Default Re: A happy new year to all

    Greek cities usually sit idle for quite a long time and finally get crushed by macedon around marius.
    Thrace usually expands very fast, even though it has very crappy armies it seems to do very well with autoresolve - in a normal battle they just rout before they kill any of your soldiers... heh

  7. #7

    Default Re: A happy new year to all

    Quote Originally Posted by HopliteLysander View Post
    Wow, I had no idea the AI made such intelligent use of mercenary units! Just goes to show once more how much this mod kicks butt.

    I can see how that presents a challenge, horse archers are a pain, and when backed up by spearman and foot archers...Ouch! Whenever I played as the Greeks I recruited merc horse archers whenever I found them, there never seemed to be enough. They always leveled up super fast too. Nothing like riddling an enemy with arrows before crushing them with an heavy phalanx!

    I forget, do Scythians have a well armoured horse archer? Armenians have Cataphract archers I think but I have never played Scythia.

    I'm curious. I usually play as Greece, so what does the map look like when the AI is in charge? Has Greece crushed Macedonia and Thrace or do they just sit tight?

    Happy Conquering!
    Cheers to you too mate!


    The independant Greeks that the Scythians initially border start with mercenary horse archers, but it appears that they recruit them actively. It seemed fairly deliberate to me, so I would be willing to bet that the strategic AI is much craftier than vanilla.

    Of course, it still does stupid things from time to time. The Seleucids will, for example, continually try to counter all horse archer armies with nothing but infantry. The steppes are big, but let me tell you, we're running out of places to put the bodies (after we've turned their heads into cups and their skins into boots, of course). The autoresolve also severely underestimates the chances of straight horse archers against a Greek-style infantry formation, so all the victories are considered heroic.

    Life is good.

    Come to think of it, with the various changes to combat generally, horse archers have it good all around. Units move more slowly, so they get longer to shoot at them. They won't break as easily, which means that they get to use the whole cohort as target practice. Finally, there are fewer men per cavalry unit, which means that their kill per unit ratios are higher and they gain experience faster.

    In answer to your question, no, I'm pretty sure that Scythia doesn't get cataphract archers. They get various "noble" units, which are sort of like archer-companions. I think they could use a make-over, but this is the Extended Greek Mod, so it's hardly a priority.

    When the AI is in charge, the Greek (independant and city states) tend to consolidate their scattered holdings into a more continuous zone. I doubt this is a migration AI pattern, they're getting chased out of their other territories. The Independant towns in the Crimea tend to stick around for a while because they either trounce or ally with the neighboring Scythians.

  8. #8
    HopliteLysander's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: A happy new year to all

    I see! I forgot about the Independent Greeks over there on the Black Sea. I guess they border you right from the start.

    You are right about Horse Archers, in any situation except a siege they can probably beat almost anything the AI can throw at you, as i guess you are proving with the Seleucids! How do they hold up against Chariots and elephants?

    I tend to rely on foot missle troops, since I rarely have much cavalry... troops from Rhodes and Crete are the best I use them against those pesky nomads!

    Normally I would say foot archers are far superior to slingers, but against lightly armored cavalry slingers seem to work better. They seem to fire faster, have more ammo and their sling bullets hit their targets much faster than arrows or javelins so they can hit a moving target better.

    Has anyone else had a similar experience?

    Of course, I have to make sure they dont fire a volley into the backs of my hoplites... nothing like a sling bullet lodged in your ass to take the fun right out of a battle!

  9. #9
    Internazionale's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: A happy new year to all

    Spear+Chariot= Another dead muther****a! Elephants are weak against spears(prefererly phalanx spearmen).

  10. #10
    RedFox's Avatar When it's done.™
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    Default Re: A happy new year to all

    I've found that the elephants usually break the phalanx, unless it is placed on a slope - they just push away the pikemen creating a hole in the formation, destroying it from within...

  11. #11
    HopliteLysander's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: A happy new year to all

    I'm pushing on into the East as the Greeks. I keep running into Scythed Chariots, but they never seem to amount to anything. The usually charge my Phalanx or my hoplites and then just seem to fall apart without doing much damage.

    Do they work better against unformed troops like spearmen rather than pikemen? How about cavalry? Probably the AI isn't using them to thier full advantage but since I have never used them at all what are they good at?

  12. #12
    RedFox's Avatar When it's done.™
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    Default Re: A happy new year to all

    Chariots rape cavalry and light troops , but they are bad against spearmen...

  13. #13
    Kara Kolyo's Avatar Mikhail
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    Default Re: A happy new year to all

    chariots are way overpowered in auto resolve. since they have few men, they gain exp like crazy. train 2-3 chariots and send them against small rebel armies, when they get a chevron or two send them against more rebels and autoresolve, they'll hit silver in one battle. that's the best way for the seleucids to deal with rebels i have found


    under the patronage of Perikles in the house of Wilpuri
    Proud patron of Cymera

  14. #14
    RedFox's Avatar When it's done.™
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    Default Re: A happy new year to all

    Thanks for the idea, now i'll know how to deal with them, I find it irritating that they spawn so often. I try to either bribe them or just send quick auto-resolve armies at them.

  15. #15
    Kara Kolyo's Avatar Mikhail
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    Default Re: A happy new year to all

    be carefull though, if there are phalanxes or elephants in the rebel stacks - it's not much fun. otherwise it's great counterrebel force since it requires only blacksmith to be built and moves on the strategic map as cavalry


    under the patronage of Perikles in the house of Wilpuri
    Proud patron of Cymera

  16. #16
    RedFox's Avatar When it's done.™
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    Default Re: A happy new year to all

    Well, most eastern rebels are sparabara anyways... !

  17. #17
    HopliteLysander's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: A happy new year to all

    Strangely I just had a bunch of chariots blow right through my Phalanx that was guarding a bridge...yet sometimes they just die. Maybe they were upgraded or more experienced, I didn't check.

    Just had two Awesome things happen to me for the 1st time.

    An ambush, never even seen one before...an entire stack of Thracens walked into an entire stack led by my faction leader...mass slaughter ensued.

    Next I planted a small but powerful stack, lead by a young general, on a bridge to defend the crossing. A big Seleucid stack attacked but I thought hey, no problem, its a bridge map so they will get slaughtered. Wrong! I've never played a bridge map in Barbarian Invasion.. so you can imagine my suprise when half of the enemy's army SWIMS accross the river and falls on the rear of my men.

    My whole army gets sandwiched in between the guys attacking the bridge and the outflanking force. butchery ensues once more.

    What a great mod

  18. #18

    Default Re: A happy new year to all

    Additionally, if pc has archers it covers swimming units so you don't have any chance to welcome those before they reform and decide to attack you on your bank.

  19. #19

    Default Re: A happy new year to all

    Quote Originally Posted by HopliteLysander View Post
    I see! I forgot about the Independent Greeks over there on the Black Sea. I guess they border you right from the start.
    Indeed. There are Greeks just about everywhere.

    You are right about Horse Archers, in any situation except a siege they can probably beat almost anything the AI can throw at you, as i guess you are proving with the Seleucids! How do they hold up against Chariots and elephants?
    They're mixed against chariots and elephants. They have trouble killing them outright, but they're OK at keeping their distance and making them go berserk.

    I tend to rely on foot missle troops, since I rarely have much cavalry... troops from Rhodes and Crete are the best I use them against those pesky nomads!
    Currently the upkeep costs on mounted archers are too low. You get a heck of a lot more firepower per yearly denarius with cav archers, which is joyously exploitable. They haven't been changed since Vanilla. Normally, this isn't a big problem unless you like to play Eastern factions heavily.

    Normally I would say foot archers are far superior to slingers, but against lightly armored cavalry slingers seem to work better. They seem to fire faster, have more ammo and their sling bullets hit their targets much faster than arrows or javelins so they can hit a moving target better.
    I'ts been a while since I've looked at the relevant files, but I think that slingers do indeed have higher projectile velocities, but they're constrained to lower trajectories. The net result is that they have shorter ranges, but do seem to hit moving targets better than archers.


    Of course, I have to make sure they dont fire a volley into the backs of my hoplites... nothing like a sling bullet lodged in your ass to take the fun right out of a battle!


    Again, they're constrained to lower trajectories than archers, so they have trouble lobbing shots way out at range and shooting safely over friendly heads. They're better left at the flanks, as far as I can tell.

    If someone would go through the effort, there really should be stave slings in the game (imagine a personal, muscle-powered trebuchet). Those ought to have no trouble with high arcs or hard hitting.

  20. #20
    HopliteLysander's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: A happy new year to all

    So, ShieldWall.

    I love and use it with my Hoplites all the time. What about you guys?

    What does it do statswise? defense, unit mass? Should i keep it on for defense but turn it off to attack or should I just leave it on?

    ALso, pike formations, do you leave them on guard mode or not? Sometimes I attack the enemy and then put them on guard mode and it works great, but sometimes they get slaughtered. But If I leave it off the pikemen always lose formation and resort to their swords when I would rather they use pikes. Any tips for using shieldwall and guardmode?

    Thanks!

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