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Thread: Yet another historical "update" November 1

  1. #21

    Default Re: Yet another historical "update" November 1

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    So, no Rome III, No Shogun II, and so no Med III. Unless they say otherwise, which they have haven't, then no Med III. Now, could the expansion be for Med II? Yes, but that is not a stand alone game.
    Umm, they actually did, you should read the blog linked to the opening post and the sentence quoted by Linus.
    Mike Simpson gave an interview years ago that we see fans quote all the time, where he says he doesn’t think we’ll do a “3”. That is a long time ago. We’ve changed our minds a hundred times on that since, so all bets are off when we’re thinking of our next game.
    It pretty much confirms the obvious. Future plans are very frequently subject to change and even if they weren't, not a "3" doesn't necessarily mean that neither Medieval Europe nor Japan will be featured again. They could just simply name it as Total War: Knights or whatever. Anyway, the real importance of this statement is that it marks a drastic change of policy, in comparison to their last comment of the next game concerning a completely new time-frame. Consequently, I think we can all conclude that serious development of their next historical game has, at best, just begun, probably only a few months ago. Otherwise, they would have been very consistent about what period will be covered, but, on the contrary, we have moved from the relative certainty of a totally new time-frame to the ambiguity of every scenario being possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spear Dog View Post
    Total War Warhammer and Total War historic titles are separate commercial entities within Sega. They have their own development teams and agendas and do not compete for budgets or resources. This is stated repeatedly by CA in media releases. When we are talking about the next historic title, Warhammer is not in the picture. Priority is merely part of their marketing strategy (not wanting two titles released to the market at the same time under the Total War banner).
    The existence of multiple teams has been indeed stated, but that's an essentially meaningless claim (a team could theoretically be composed to three employees brainstorming during their coffee breaks) and, in fact, Will's original comment about has been contradicted repeatedly. The last time was, as I explained to PikeStance, when CA changed again its plans about the next major game,
    Quote Originally Posted by Setekh View Post
    snip
    I think that both these pictures are irrelevant to the upcoming expansion. The last one is probably about the "tent-pole" game and I personally agree with Pinarius that they look like wearing late Renaissance's "inflated" sleeves. Now, the first image's caption mentions the campaign pack, but I believe that the Saga and Expansion projects had been swapped sometime after that old announcement, so the caption is now obsolete, while that European warrior will probably concern the Saga game. I'm not sure though, so all that may be simply nonsense. However, the warlord fits almost perfectly the theme of the Saga DLC, which is almost doubtlessly tied to post-Roman Britain and would probably focus on the adventures of Arthur. Anyway, I guess today or at worst at the end of the week, we'll learn about the expansion. 3rd century crisis is a strong candidate, but it doesn't match well their hint at "just the beginning", not to mention that the struggle against Palmyra is hardly popular outside a very niche market. Constantine would have been more appropriate for Attila and the units would hardly be any different to those of Attila anyway, so I still suspect Alexander.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Yet another historical "update" November 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Abdülmecid I View Post
    Umm, they actually did, you should read the blog linked to the opening post and the sentence quoted by Linus.

    It pretty much confirms the obvious. Future plans are very frequently subject to change and even if they weren't, not a "3" doesn't necessarily mean that neither Medieval Europe nor Japan will be featured again. They could just simply name it as Total War: Knights or whatever. Anyway, the real importance of this statement is that it marks a drastic change of policy, in comparison to their last comment of the next game concerning a completely new time-frame. Consequently, I think we can all conclude that serious development of their next historical game has, at best, just begun, probably only a few months ago. Otherwise, they would have been very consistent about what period will be covered, but, on the contrary, we have moved from the relative certainty of a totally new time-frame to the ambiguity of every scenario being possible.

    The existence of multiple teams has been indeed stated, but that's an essentially meaningless claim (a team could theoretically be composed to three employees brainstorming during their coffee breaks) and, in fact, Will's original comment about has been contradicted repeatedly. The last time was, as I explained to PikeStance, when CA changed again its plans about the next major game,
    I am afraid I took myself out of context. I have stated previously that Businesses often develop long term plans. Do these plans change? Of course. The expansion Saga approach is a shift in the normal approach that we have come accustomed to from CA. I would expect that large standalone games will become fewer and far between. What will will arguably see is more expansions and smaller saga games as these will yield the greater potential for profit. This is not much different than what we see with Paradox. For example, just 4 to 5 expansions of a single Paradox game yield the same in revenue than a development of a single platform game. Moreover, the development time is much shorter, so potential for greater profit is there. Additionally, with each expansion there is also a slight adjustment in the base game that is free. This extends the play-ability of the base game. What do I conclude? The new historical title will be in development for a far longer time than people think it will. We should expect to see expansions and a few 'saga' type games as well. I would not expect to see a 2nd title for a new base game for much longer than 5 years. If you holding your breath for a Med 3 you will be holding it for a long time. The statement made in the blog is the ultimate tease in my opinion. I would expect a saga game or even a future expansion of ATW dealing with roughly the same time period before I would expect to see a entirely new developed base game.

    In a nutshell, the previous quote about the "3rd" game in series was hint to this newer approach, expansions and smaller "saga" games. A 3rd game was the last thing at that time they would consider. Businesses normally do not think beyond 5 or 6 years. Under the older system that is at least two titles. Now, it looks like just one base game title.
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  3. #23

    Default Re: Yet another historical "update" November 1

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    The Blog mentioned an expansion of a previous title that has been out for some time. it mentioned "Saga" games and it mentioned that the next historical title will be an era never previously explored. That is pretty clear it is not going to be a Med III since they explored that era twice. Where is the proof that the next title after that is going to be Med III?
    Wow you really don't pay attention to people's comments do you? Where did I ever say in this thread that Med 3 was going to be the next game? Nowhere. I simply said that this blog proves that it can indeed happen IN THE FUTURE. As in it is no longer up to debate that after they explore a new era they can also make a Med 3 depending on their decision.
    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    So far, they have nothing to change a previous statement that they will not do a third in any series.
    Wow you really are in denial. I shouldn't have to repeat this since both the OP and other posters have already said this but just to make sure the point is clear.

    "Mike Simpson gave an interview years ago that we see fans quote all the time, where he says he doesn’t think we’ll do a “3”. That is a long time ago. We’ve changed our minds a hundred times on that since, so all bets are off when we’re thinking of our next game."

    They have outright said what I have said before in the past, it was a long time ago and CA do not consider that statement a fact anymore and most likely never did since it was just an offhand statement and nothing else. After the next big historical title it is just as likely to be Med 3 as it could be Victoria or Renaissance or any others.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Yet another historical "update" November 1

    Quote Originally Posted by NostalgiaFan View Post
    Wow you really don't pay attention to people's comments do you? Where did I ever say in this thread that Med 3 was going to be the next game? Nowhere. I simply said that this blog proves that it can indeed happen IN THE FUTURE. As in it is no longer up to debate that after they explore a new era they can also make a Med 3 depending on their decision.

    Wow you really are in denial. I shouldn't have to repeat this since both the OP and other posters have already said this but just to make sure the point is clear.

    "Mike Simpson gave an interview years ago that we see fans quote all the time, where he says he doesn’t think we’ll do a “3”. That is a long time ago. We’ve changed our minds a hundred times on that since, so all bets are off when we’re thinking of our next game."

    They have outright said what I have said before in the past, it was a long time ago and CA do not consider that statement a fact anymore and most likely never did since it was just an offhand statement and nothing else. After the next big historical title it is just as likely to be Med 3 as it could be Victoria or Renaissance or any others.
    To save time, I suggest you read post 22.
    I do not think it will be Med3. It isn't denial (though that doesn't make much sense) My opinion is based on my understanding of their business model.
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  5. #25
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    Default Re: Yet another historical "update" November 1

    Something to consider -- any business model needs to make a profit. Obvious, but perhaps the great modifications to M2TW were its somewhat of an undoing. The total conversion with Third Age Mod among others bring no additional money to the TW game developers nor to SEGA. The SAGA series if done properly could be some very good 'mods' and also produce revenue for the company. My guesss is that if these are the equivalent to a company mod, then their success will have a bit to do with future directions for SEGA. The dlc stuff seemed a bit over priced for just units to throw in a game. Perhaps the SAGA series will be priced a bit higher, but add more than just a few units to an existing game. I am still hoping for some variation off of Kingdoms Britannia for this upcoming SAGA release.
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  6. #26
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    Default Re: Yet another historical "update" November 1

    Well it's not really true that mods don't bring money to CA; if nowadays they are still selling Rome 1 or Med 2 it's just because of mods; besides, many people is aware of TW titles only because of the indirect advertisement that comes from mod.

    I'd say this is the typical win/win situation, while infact it's only CA (even if only partially) that is getting a real return from mods (in terms of money I mean)
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  7. #27
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    Default Re: Yet another historical "update" November 1

    You do realise that Sega/CA own all Total War mods. Just saying.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Yet another historical "update" November 1

    Yes, we all know this. This is why no modder can technically copyright their work. It isn't their property. TWC does offer some protection, but is limited to this forum.
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  9. #29

    Default Re: Yet another historical "update" November 1

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    To save time, I suggest you read post 22.
    I do not think it will be Med3.
    I suggest you actually read my posts instead of skipping them because in case I have not repeated myself enough, I never stated Med 3 is going to be the next game, I said it has a chance of happening IN THE FUTURE.
    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    It isn't denial (though that doesn't make much sense)
    Oh alright then since it seems you are having a hard time understanding I'll make it simple for you

    1. CA confirms they have no trouble making a game with 3 in the title
    2. You still claim they will never make a Med 3 despite statements to the contrary
    3. Basically that is what we call denial

    Understand better?
    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    My opinion is based on my understanding of their business model.
    A pretty poor understanding from what I see since none of what you say makes sense.

    "Med 3 as an expansion to Attila?" Not gonna happen, the fact they put the 3rd century DLC on an older title like Rome 2 over Attila because of the former having more sales then the latter blows that theory to the water, doubtful they would waste a chance at big money from nostalgia on a lesser known and less successful title like Attila when the big bucks would come from a brand new stand alone title instead. "Put the era on the new Saga games?" Laughable since the Medieval era is far too large to possible fit on a game which is meant to be more focused and smaller then the kinda game required to bring the setting to life. Not to mention that it would piss off too many fans who just wanted to play a big campaign involving Medieval Europe if they instead just shrunk it all down to DLCs that only cover parts of it instead.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Yet another historical "update" November 1

    Quote Originally Posted by NostalgiaFan View Post
    I suggest you actually read my posts instead of skipping them because in case I have not repeated myself enough, I never stated Med 3 is going to be the next game, I said it has a chance of happening IN THE FUTURE.

    Oh alright then since it seems you are having a hard time understanding I'll make it simple for you

    1. CA confirms they have no trouble making a game with 3 in the title
    2. You still claim they will never make a Med 3 despite statements to the contrary
    3. Basically that is what we call denial

    Understand better?

    A pretty poor understanding from what I see since none of what you say makes sense.
    He doesn't say never, he just says not the one they're currently working on and I agree with that. Whatever the next major historical release is, they probably had a pretty good idea what it was going to be back when the statement about no game 3s was made and even though they've changed they're mind about that, I only really see it concerning games after the next one.
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  11. #31
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    Default Re: Yet another historical "update" November 1

    I have a pretty random and a bit unorganized thought here. What about the 8th century Europe of Charlemagne and on... Viking activity. Islam still expanding but reaching a peak. Not really a M3TW nor a R3TW, but a gap between the two and it could then b an expansion of either Rome or Medieval. Heck they could kick it off with excerpts from Beowulf. As an expansion it need not be as big of a map in the sense of territory as either R2 or M2 -- maybe like one the Kingdoms Expansion games.


    Of course it may not even be a gap in time but a gap in territory. M2 in India? R2 in western Asia? Once again think of the Kingdoms Expansion of M2 Not a 3, but still one of the 2's.
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  12. #32
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    Default Re: Yet another historical "update" November 1

    Quote Originally Posted by NostalgiaFan View Post
    I suggest you actually read my posts instead of skipping them because in case I have not repeated myself enough, I never stated Med 3 is going to be the next game, I said it has a chance of happening IN THE FUTURE.

    Oh alright then since it seems you are having a hard time understanding I'll make it simple for you

    1. CA confirms they have no trouble making a game with 3 in the title
    2. You still claim they will never make a Med 3 despite statements to the contrary
    3. Basically that is what we call denial

    Understand better?

    A pretty poor understanding from what I see since none of what you say makes sense.

    "Med 3 as an expansion to Attila?" Not gonna happen, the fact they put the 3rd century DLC on an older title like Rome 2 over Attila because of the former having more sales then the latter blows that theory to the water, doubtful they would waste a chance at big money from nostalgia on a lesser known and less successful title like Attila when the big bucks would come from a brand new stand alone title instead. "Put the era on the new Saga games?" Laughable since the Medieval era is far too large to possible fit on a game which is meant to be more focused and smaller then the kinda game required to bring the setting to life. Not to mention that it would piss off too many fans who just wanted to play a big campaign involving Medieval Europe if they instead just shrunk it all down to DLCs that only cover parts of it instead.
    You are like stuck in a rut here.
    I didn't "skip" your post since I actually quoted it, so I have no idea what you are going on about.
    I also do not get the "denial" comment. Why would I be in "denial?" I have, at one time owned every single one of CA's Total War Historical series except Rome. I love all time periods and I would literally be interested in any time period they explore. In fact one of the reasons why I both Paradox's Victoria II and Hearts of iron is because Total War didn't cover those periods. I literally have no desire to want one era or regional time period over another. My point of view is directly based on my impression on CA's communications.

    I also couldn't care less if you would be happy as "Med III" as part of an expansion with Attila, Rome II, or as a "Saga." I honestly do not know how involved the "Saga" games will be until they actually publish one or give greater detail on what they will involved. Until then, the best i can do is speculate. Moreover, I wouldn't expect "Med III" as a Saga game would entail. All time periods are too large to deal with. However, all time periods can be reduced to a specific event which apparently "Saga" games will be about.

    I have said this countless time already; businesses do not ordinarily plan more than 5 years ahead. Even if they do, the greater the time, the less specific the plan. As long as there are large periods of time that CA has not developed a game in then the less likely they will return to a previous title. My guess is that they will use the expansions and saga games to gauge customer interest. I could be wrong, but that's what i think.

    lastly, I am not responsible for you not understanding business practices. if you do not understand it, then do some research, bu don't blame me.

    Quote Originally Posted by NostalgiaFan View Post
    I suggest you actually read my posts instead of skipping them...
    If you keep going on about this, then I will skip your posts because it is monotonous to keep repeating myself.
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  13. #33

    Default Re: Yet another historical "update" November 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Dude with the Food View Post
    He doesn't say never, he just says not the one they're currently working on and I agree with that.
    He claimed I was making the argument that they were making Medieval 3 the next game despite the fact I said otherwise.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dude with the Food View Post
    Whatever the next major historical release is, they probably had a pretty good idea what it was going to be back when the statement about no game 3s was made and even though they've changed they're mind about that, I only really see it concerning games after the next one.
    Except that is EXACTLY what I was arguing. He quoted my post and said "I am not getting a med 3 at all. Expansion is not a new game. " as if I was arguing for Med 3 being the very next game when I instead just said it is now on the table of being possible in the future.

  14. #34

    Default Re: Yet another historical "update" November 1

    I think this is very simply a misunderstanding of terms.

    When Pike said "I am not getting a med 3...", I think he meant that he doesn't "get it", i.e. he is saying "I don't understand why people are thinking it will be Med 3". Either that, or he meant that he isn't "getting" an impression that the next game will be Med 3.

    Expressions such as "I don't get it" can be easily misunderstood in a forum context.

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  15. #35

    Default Re: Yet another historical "update" November 1

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    You are like stuck in a rut here.
    I didn't "skip" your post since I actually quoted it, so I have no idea what you are going on about.
    You quoted them and still got it wrong like thinking I was saying Med 3 would be the next historical TW game when my posts said the opposite.
    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    Snip
    I do not care to read your frigging backstory dude, I am saying you are in denial because you still think a Med 3 will never happen outside of being a smaller set of games like Saga or as Attila expansions.
    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    My point of view is directly based on my impression on CA's communications.
    And I find that point of view wrong for my own reasons.
    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    I also couldn't care less if you would be happy
    And since when was I ever arguing based on what made me happy instead of what I felt made more sense? You seriously think I have never argued on anything but what I like and don't? I argue that Med 3 being a main total war title is far more likely now because CA understand that fanboys would eat that up and buy it in droves since it is one of the most popular historical eras to use to the series. I never argued because it's what I wanted, it's because it made more sense then your ideas.
    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    Moreover, I wouldn't expect "Med III" as a Saga game would entail. All time periods are too large to deal with. However, all time periods can be reduced to a specific event which apparently "Saga" games will be about.
    Would make sense, alongside a bigger and more expansive main TW title like a Med 3. It would be a huge waste to the fans for CA to only limit using the Medieval era to smaller, shorter campaigns without giving players the chance to try out a campaign on a full scale map of Europe. This is not just me "not liking it" CA knows what the fans want will give them money which is why it would be more reasonable they would make a game like Medieval 3 and could than use the Saga games to expand on that to use in the same way they made the kingdoms expansion. It just makes no sense CA would only go for the latter without starting with the former which is where I heavily disagree with you.
    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    As long as there are large periods of time that CA has not developed a game in then the less likely they will return to a previous title.
    Not likely. This in no way means Med 3 can't get the main title treatment in the future just because it's been a long time. CA spends more time on their games when it comes to DLC and expansions compared to their earlier games so it only says the releases of said games take longer.
    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    My guess is that they will use the expansions and saga games to gauge customer interest. I could be wrong, but that's what i think.
    Most likely on eras that are unconnected to the medieval time frame in Europe between the 1000s and 1500s unless they come after a possible Med 3.
    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    lastly, I am not responsible for you not understanding business practices. if you do not understand it, then do some research, bu don't blame me.


    Dude, me not being persuaded by your arguments has nothing to do with me "not understanding business practices", it's you not being able to convince me of your point.
    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    If you keep going on about this, then I will skip your posts because it is monotonous to keep repeating myself.
    Well then maybe you should quite repeating the same tired arguments that have failed to be proven instead don't you think? I myself am getting pretty tired of repeating myself whenever we argue but it gets beyond irritating when you completely make up stuff and act like I was saying them.

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Yet another historical "update" November 1

    Quote Originally Posted by NostalgiaFan View Post
    You quoted them and still got it wrong like thinking I was saying Med 3 would be the next historical TW game when my posts said the opposite.
    Your post did not state it nor the opposite;
    Quote Originally Posted by NostalgiaFan View Post
    But atleast they laid to rest that stupid rumour about "games with 3" that people kept harping on about for years to argue that a med 3 would never happen.
    I also did state what you claimed either;
    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    The Blog mentioned an expansion of a previous title that has been out for some time. it mentioned "Saga" games and it mentioned that the next historical title will be an era never previously explored. That is pretty clear it is not going to be a Med III since they explored that era twice. Where is the proof that the next title after that is going to be Med III? So far, they have nothing to change a previous statement that they will not do a third in any series. So, no Rome III, No Shogun II, and so no Med III. Unless they say otherwise, which they have haven't, then no Med III. Now, could the expansion be for Med II? Yes, but that is not a stand alone game.
    This is the closest statement I can find. The response was response to what you said about my opinion. It in no way put any words in your mouth.

    Quote Originally Posted by NostalgiaFan View Post
    I do not care to read your frigging backstory dude, I am saying you are in denial because you still think a Med 3 will never happen outside of being a smaller set of games like Saga or as Attila expansions.
    I do not get the denial thing. I am just not that invested.

    Quote Originally Posted by NostalgiaFan View Post
    And since when was I ever arguing based on what made me happy instead of what I felt made more sense? You seriously think I have never argued on anything but what I like and don't? I argue that Med 3 being a main total war title is far more likely now because CA understand that fanboys would eat that up and buy it in droves since it is one of the most popular historical eras to use to the series. I never argued because it's what I wanted, it's because it made more sense then your ideas.
    Well, as long as you are happy.

    Quote Originally Posted by NostalgiaFan View Post
    Would make sense, alongside a bigger and more expansive main TW title like a Med 3. It would be a huge waste to the fans for CA to only limit using the Medieval era to smaller, shorter campaigns without giving players the chance to try out a campaign on a full scale map of Europe. This is not just me "not liking it" CA knows what the fans want will give them money which is why it would be more reasonable they would make a game like Medieval 3 and could than use the Saga games to expand on that to use in the same way they made the kingdoms expansion. It just makes no sense CA would only go for the latter without starting with the former which is where I heavily disagree with you
    Let's see a standalone game cost about $50 USD. A saga game will go for, let's say $30-35. Do three Medieval games, and that $90. They bleed fanboys (whatever that means) like you for a lot more money and you will pay. You will probably pay even more for it than cheaply wait for the Winter or Summer sales.

    Quote Originally Posted by NostalgiaFan View Post
    Not likely. This in no way means Med 3 can't get the main title treatment in the future just because it's been a long time. CA spends more time on their games when it comes to DLC and expansions compared to their earlier games so it only says the releases of said games take longer.
    I also never excluded it, jut that I do not believe they will.

    Quote Originally Posted by NostalgiaFan View Post
    Dude, me not being persuaded by your arguments has nothing to do with me "not understanding business practices", it's you not being able to convince me of your point.
    Well, what I have stated has been echoed by others. I have also not gone more in-depth than something you may read in a high school business textbook, so it should be easier enough to follow.

    Quote Originally Posted by NostalgiaFan View Post
    Well then maybe you should quite repeating the same tired arguments that have failed to be proven instead don't you think? I myself am getting pretty tired of repeating myself whenever we argue but it gets beyond irritating when you completely make up stuff and act like I was saying them.
    I stated that I speculating from what CA stated. The only way I can prove anything is if Jack, Will, and/or Craig from CA would come on here and state that Pike has read us like a Book OR five years from now everything I have said comes true. We are all just speculating, so chill.
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