NEW DBM development:Testing phase of DBM 2.0

[TheCataphract]

Very cool pics! Also nice decision on the more concise campaign map, always felt like Europe was a bit sparse and needed more settlements in this mod. It's also good to hear that settlements will also be fixed/added to, hopefully all the path finding errors and empty spaces will be fixed. Anyways, looking forward to the project folks and good luck!

[rafmc1989]

Yep, more or less I had the same feeling on the map, so we chose the European context...

Whereas for the settlements section, yes it's the hardest part... All in all, the empty spaces are going to be filled and there are as well new textures and models... in case of left defects, then, we'll fix step by step.

[Rick]

I understand why you're reducing the map size, but what a shame. It's so much fun playing on a large sprawling map. Oh well. Keep up the good work.

[rafmc1989]

Hehe, I know, but it turned out to be too much and was a bit dispersive in some points, while now the "concentrated area" is for a specific representation of Europe (more RTW styled)... (don't ask to change the map again, heh!!) xD

All in all, it covers from after the departure of Alexander, up to the take of power of Caesar Augustus... when the time of release approaches, we'll make a bit of preliminary explanation

[selv]

I understand why you're reducing the map size, but what a shame. It's so much fun playing on a large sprawling map. Oh well. Keep up the good work.

Not with 199 regions max to distribute, it's not fun, as rafmc say. I even consider to take out the last two in Britannia and put them somewhere in the east. But it depend on a 'replacement' system possibility for isolated map part, let's call it a experiment I don't have time to try yet so Britannia will keep it's two regions in the first version, likely.

Beside the map still go to persia and around the caspian sea, it's not so bad.

[Hohenstaufen234]

So glad you guys are taking up this fantastic mod again! And the pics do sure seems lovely to say the least.
Can´t wait for the "new" release of this wonderful mod

Are you guys gonna add new ancilliaries, traits etc? A new "re-vamp" of the original mod?

Regards.

[selv]

Yep, I think we can fairly call it a revamp as many things have changed, new scripts, new traits/ancs, olds ones reworked, and more. Would take too long to explain now. To be fair with probability, romans will have the full gear of new traits, scripted features and such in the first version. It's hard to say but other factions will likely be kept for future versions on the big part of these new aspects.

[rafmc1989]

Yep, basically the goal is the following... in terms of traits and ancs, the three romans are being reworked fully, whereas the other factions will follow in order...

Whereas, for the graphics, UIs, factions and units have been reworked all of them, filling the gaps and completing the rosters.

The mechanics will be revisited too, for costs, AI, recruitments and such

[Hohenstaufen234]

I can´t express my thanks enough for what you guys are doing with this already awesome mod. It´s gonna be worth the wait, i can see that. Almost creamed in my paints when i saw the pics on moddb haha

If you are i need of betatesters or testers in general, please don´t hesitate to send me a pm or just ask. Because what you guys are doing to this mod right now is something i have waited to happen. But the hope faded after the inactivity on the DBM forum. But now...Oh my!

So if you are in need of testers to rid out the bugs and see if the game doesn´t ctd after 80-200 turns, then i am your man

You are doing a glorious work guys! Hail Caesars we who are about to play/die salute you hah

[rafmc1989]

Haha, ok very good then...

yes, be prepared that we need you (and of course, in case, other volunteers are always "saviors") for quick betatesting before a first release... namely there will be need to check the new scripting (edited part of old scripting)..

But ok, we'll organize a bit the threads on the forum when we're close to readiness..

Benigne dicis!

[Hohenstaufen234]

I have was wondering. Is is possible to add events in the game? In the campaign mode so to say. Lets say you conquer Carthage as Rome and an event pops up with some informative text or something like that?
If that is possible that would raise the immersion of the mod tenfold. It becomes a little rpg-esque or something like that Because i always missed events in the Total War games. So little can do so much

Tibi gratias ago pro quo

Tibi gratias ago pro quoTibi gratias ago pro quo

[selv]

Sure, there already were added events in the original mod, but many just were too 'historic' and not tighted enough to gameplay. A long story but you will be in for many surprises with the new DBM regarding immersion. Especially with romans to start with, who are in no lack of new gameplay events.

Thanks for the beta testing offer, we might need someone soon, I test everything I do individually but a longer real play test is safer eh? It is better to wait that both ramfc and I finish our currents big tasks and get on page before.

Rafmc, latest news, I am soon at the end of the long dark tunnel of EDCT, I ended up reworking a lot more than excpected, there are few antitraits and nogoingback left, and I think it is better even if I will never do that again... It does make a damn load of additionals triggers, but actually grater roleplay even with the old traits if you ask me. I will probably have reworked the last antitraits by the end of the week, along with adding my missing reworked scripts and finish the merging. About governor ancs, ok I got it but next week then.

[rafmc1989]

Haha, ook...

Yep, the area of rpg mechanics will be an area of interest to mod, no doubt..

[Mamlaz]

This is amazing, for this mod to be resurrected

I do not have much free time atm, but any historic research that you need or advice feel free to ask and I would gladly chip in.

Now, humbly, a few suggestions though;

1) Consider pushing the map eastwards to the river Indus(to include all the areas of the Hellenistic period)

-this can be done by sacrificing just several provinces overall, for example Italy(Italy does not really require such a cluster of provinces for this period IMO)


1) Consider pushing the start date to after the Maurya fell and the Greco-Bactrians took hold of the Indus valley, this would justify the removal of India off the map and create a powerful eastern Hellenistic faction in the far east

I believe that this mod could perhaps do something different for a change and start the game in a more active 2nd century BC instead of pushing the date backwards towards the Diadochi wars.

For example, 180 BC;

https://i.imgur.com/SH4NqPp.png

- Rome already a powerhouse but not yet overwhelming
- powerful alternative factions
- weakened but still powerful Seleucids
- weakened but still existing Carthage

(the map above shows it as much smaller than it actually was, here is an overlap of their territory on your province map in 180BC; https://i.imgur.com/KUPFeBf.png )

- date is much closer to the Marian reforms and to the late Republican times

- date being closer to 0 BC makes 4tpy a more appealing option, and 4tpy is more appealing by itself, 4tpy from 321 BC is a lot of turns imo

That is, at least, my 2 cents.

Best regards

[selv]

Thanks for the input, Mamlaz. Regarding your ideas, it's not that they are not interesting but beside all the 'rewind'/rework it would take now on the new build, speaking only for me, they simply conflict too much with what I want to play. I don't play other's mods because they are not to my taste, nothing personal and I never complain about it. 'You are never better served by anyone but yourself', I guess you could summarize my ways with modding with that cliche.(But unlike most cliche, this one is actually true I think)

The map and start date, well you can blame it on me since two month ago or so I was still on my own, and I wanted a rome campaign going from 'only Rome' to the empire beginning. There isn't too many regions anywhere, including in Italy, for my playstyle. If some regions turn out sacrifiable in later versions when I have time to try some ideas, it won't be to expand the map.
I don't have any big historical explanations and I am not looking for one. Except that a more concentrated regions distribution give a better global representation of a global map, with many more opportunities to give room to factions to brieve and fight locally, among other things.

This is all about gameplay mostly, ai do better, more accurate chance of local conflicts that don't condemn the ai factions to death or sinking into inactivity, and a better feeling of actually conquering or managing/visiting some big territories/empires, not 'deserts' represented by a few settlements.
No way to do justice further in the east with a few or even a little more settlements, I tried at first, and it just doesn't work well, for neither map part benefit. Same reasonning apply to Britannia.

4TPY, well it make about 1300 turns, very long campaign I know, and most people don't go that far but once again speaking only for me, it doesn't interest me how others play. Don't get me wrong, if some people like to play it, I will be glad but else, well that's too bad. It's not a paid work and the only reward is finally have a game I want to play. Ah, and not every turns have to last hours, it can flow very well if you're not blitzing, and if you are, well there won't be much interest in going on will there?

I am not speaking for rafmc but I think I already told him my views once or twice... We have a lot of new things to keep the game flowing during all these turns.

edit, forgot to quote myself on research...

I am just gonna ask after all. Is there someone around who would want to do some simple but possibly time consumable historic research for people too busy with functionnal/internal modding?

No need to give me pages of histories books, just when possible, in record somewhere:
Names of important people/families, factions positions and possibly state of relations in -321 for the following:
Aedui, Averni, Belgae, Celtiberi, Swebaz, Illyria, Noricum, Boii, Dacian, Scytians, Sarmatians, Nomadic to include more or less in Saka Rauka, and Nabateans?
I bet there is almost or no records at all of these things but since I don't know for sure...

Others factions are more known/on records but still, I have no time to look now so if you want to make me little lists of leaders, important generals and women, I won't say no, just having names right in front of me will make it faster:
Rome, Greek cities states, macedonia, thracia, pontus, armenia, seleucids, egypt, syracuse, pergamon, massilia, bosphore greeks, carthage, and, and I think that's "all".

Little lists are enough, generals to start on -321, if written somewhere the women they were married to or the same for characters tree, "princess like close enough", these kind of characters. Sure I know the most famous but you can still writte their names so I will have it easy. Same with relations states when possible.

I did some since but wikipedia (mostly) isn't always generous on 'secondary' characters, not even primary sometimes so help is always welcome.

[Mamlaz]

Well, alright, as you see fit.

But I do think your reasoning is flawed and I would indeed wager that even you would, in the end, enjoy my version better than your own, judging by the texts you wrote in your other comments.

By the time you reach the period of the late Republic with 4tpy and a 321 BC startdate, the game will already be so played out with so many hundreds of turns that it will not be nearly as enjoyable(even if enjoyable) as with a much later start date.

It is obvious your focus is on Rome, which is why I suggested the later start date in the first place, as an earlier one, your version, makes no sense to me with the goals you have described by this point.

This later start date would also allow for a far better province spread on the map, as having 23 Italian provinces is silly(the rest of the map suffers because of it).

I hope you rethink this, the potential of this mods overhaul and what you could achieve is immense, reducing it to just another Rome focused play off sounds so...anti-climactic.

Well, I wish you best of luck.

Best regards

[selv]

It's not that I am closed but I thought hard on the map, it wasn't exactly a 5mn job, more like weeks actually. Aside from geographical considerations that would create huge 'regions', which would take a lot more than a few provinces redistribution to fill and give justice to more east, how do you think that the rest of the map suffer from my italians provinces? They are 16, Sicily is not Italian and a other battlefield. I need all this for historicals scenarios, and to support the continuous wars that these places have always known, beside what I explained on gameplay in general. Whether you use the entire map in 200 turn is up to you.

Maybe for you it's just 'a other of these mods', and I can understand, but to me it's not since I never wanted to play them. But that being said, rafmc has free reign to rethink and redo things for the official build if he is convinced or want to change what he like, I will share my scripts, traits and such if our visions differ too much at some point. His ways sure seem more appealing to the public, you could have waited long for new graphics if it was only me, among other things.

Ah, it's not a 'private property' once released as far as I am concerned, anybody is free to remake it in something that suit them, if Rafmc doesn't mind with the graphics and units models reused.

Everybody always found my reasonning flawed, yet they have always suited me. Go figure, I must like flawing, or flawed is a matter of taste.

[Mamlaz]

It's not that I am closed but I thought hard on the map, it wasn't exactly a 5mn job, more like weeks actually.

I understand.

Aside from geographical considerations that would create huge 'regions', which would take a lot more than a few provinces redistribution to fill and give justice to more east

Well, if you are interested, I actually redistributed some provinces from your map to the east, and here is the result;

https://i.imgur.com/mc4O3KQ.png

how do you think that the rest of the map suffer from my italians provinces? They are 16

Yes, 16, I believe about 11 to 13 is enough.

I need all this for historicals scenarios, and to support the continuous wars that these places have always known, beside what I explained on gameplay in general. Whether you use the entire map in 200 turn is up to you.

As you wish.

Everybody always found my reasonning flawed, yet they have always suited me. Go figure, I must like flawing, or flawed is a matter of taste.

Well, it is not my position to tell you what to do or how to mold your own creation,

I was merely trying to point out something that I see as a game build flaw when it comes to the amount of turns and province spread.

It is, of course, your decision and I wish you best of luck in your future work

[rafmc1989]

haha, ok guys first let's see together how appealing is the new map once we have the first build: in terms of settlement distance and time-to-react, due to the restricted map I think all the areas are pretty good covered and reachable, the only part which has been "decreased" (I do not remember another better Eng term, xD) is Britannia with two regions but no faction on it, although there are the Atrebates-Bolg (the Belgae) which will easily expand on it. Italy, yes, is full, but it has somewhat to be that: it is the core of the ancient world (I mean, the most important area for centuries all along)...

For new units and factions instead, here we are limited by hardcoded: there is no space for other units and factions, all slots filled (so for a possible "later campaign" could be a postponed project, using the same factions but with a different timeframe)...

And hey, mamlaz, your historical research could be very useful to have real ancient names for the units, at least their title name (I did it for all the new units, but not for the other existing), wanna help?

[rafmc1989]

In the meantime, new preview on ModDB:

http://www.moddb.com/mods/de-bello-mundi