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Thread: Impossible to win

  1. #1

    Default Impossible to win

    I've won with most of the races from WHI on VH, but I have no idea how to win WH2. Issues that trapped me:

    1) Dark Elf massive spam. Basically, they get ~80 settlements via conquest and confederation and send endless stacks of elite units at me. Every HE game I have played has ended with me just giving up. My 2 stacks can's stand up to the 4-5 that cycle my way regularly. Trapped in a cycle of rebuilding/recapturing cities. No time for vortex.

    2) Economics is terrible. In WHI, I could support 1 stack every 2 provinces. In WH2, its probably double that. Trade helps some, but can be fiendishly difficult to get. My stack of spearmen against his executioners is not pretty.

    3) Bizarre trade rules. I played DE campaign and a single, fairly worthless town in the corner of my empire was the hub for ALL trade. I lost it and all my trade disappeared. I have no idea why factions on my borders can't trade with me, but factions all the way across the world can.

    4) Played as DE and Lizardmen beat me to the final ritual. I was forced to fight a stack and a half of Carnosaurs, ancient stegadons, and temple guards with piddling help from two remaining loser factions. Maybe if my master stack was full of dragons, hydras, and black naggarond guard, I would stand a chance, but it wasn't. And I was beating the snot out of the Lizardmen on the map, with their capital long in my hands.

    5) Not a big impediment, but the chase mechanic is broken. I can't run down fleeing foes. My cavalry just sits there and refuses to chase. Very odd.

    6) Influence is useless. I've never been able to convince anyone to do anything. My foes love each other for pounding on me and my friends continue to envy my power, no matter how much influence I send them.

    I am hoping there is an EA fix coming out, as this has been very frustrating.

  2. #2
    LestaT's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Impossible to win

    I won as Queek, Teclis, Kroq Gar and Morathi on Normal difficulty and now halfway of Legendary as Malekith.

    No problem whatsoever completing the campaigns besides some bugs here and there.

    Vortex campaign is not to be rushed. I usually let the AI get into their 3rd rituals before starting mine and only the first campaign as Morathi do I have to fight every other factions final battles (which can easily be defeated).

    I concentrated on the bottom line skill for Lords especially those that reduce upkeeps as that can allow me to field more armies even in Legendary.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Impossible to win

    Number 5 is a bug and the patch notes said it was fixed.

    Number 6, influence works decent for me. Of course I don't just mass conquest. I like to keep the other high elf factions around to trade with and be buffers. The Dark elves don't always unite when they are constantly at war with Tirranoc and Nagarythe.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Impossible to win

    Quote Originally Posted by LestaT View Post
    I won as Queek, Teclis, Kroq Gar and Morathi on Normal difficulty and now halfway of Legendary as Malekith.

    No problem whatsoever completing the campaigns besides some bugs here and there.

    Vortex campaign is not to be rushed. I usually let the AI get into their 3rd rituals before starting mine and only the first campaign as Morathi do I have to fight every other factions final battles (which can easily be defeated).

    I concentrated on the bottom line skill for Lords especially those that reduce upkeeps as that can allow me to field more armies even in Legendary.
    To be fair, Normal is a lot easier than VH. Malekith is easy because you can ride the wave of Morathi. DE are overwhelming juggernauts, which was my point. I reached the end with Morathi without too much sweat, only to be stomped by the Lizardmen death stack and a half. Good point about the upkeep skills. I always push battle updates, but upkeep is a good idea, though I am not sure it is available to all factions.

  5. #5
    LestaT's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Impossible to win

    Of course Normal is easier than Very Hard.

    It's no shame playing on Normal or Hard if you can't beat it on Very Hard.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Impossible to win

    Quote Originally Posted by LestaT View Post
    Of course Normal is easier than Very Hard.

    It's no shame playing on Normal or Hard if you can't beat it on Very Hard.
    It's a matter of pride for me to win on VH. I like the challenge, but if the game is set up in flawed manner, I waste huge amounts of time losing, even though I am playing very well.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Impossible to win

    Playing on difficulty higher than hard is masochism, since the higher difficulty levels do not make artificial intelligence smarter, AI simply gets huge, unreasonable and illogical bonuses on the campaign and battle modes.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Impossible to win

    Quote Originally Posted by musketer View Post
    Playing on difficulty higher than hard is masochism, since the higher difficulty levels do not make artificial intelligence smarter, AI simply gets huge, unreasonable and illogical bonuses on the campaign and battle modes.
    I think I will actually win my Morathi campaign. Just have to wait for Naggaroth to conquer the whole map while I win the final ritual battles. Long slog.

    Actually made progress as Order of Loremasters, but lost on final ritual. I finished only one. Naggaroth contained this time, but still most powerful by far. I checked them at the chokepoint connecting the two continents, but lost on final ritual. Final Lord is more or less invincible for some reason. I wish I had the option of continuing to play after the final ritual. Ok, I lose, now let's finish it out.

  9. #9
    Ichon's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Impossible to win

    Not sure what to tell you- Queek and maybe Teclis are a bit more difficult than the average WH1 campaigns but still less difficult than the hardest WH1 campaigns.

    Tyrion and Malekith are by far the easiest campaigns with Mazdamundi and Krok-Gar pretty easy as well. Morathi start is a bit rough but gets easier in the later campaign similar to Teclis while Queek and Skrolk are likely to face lots of enemies for the entire campaign unless Dark Elves didn't fully confederate in which case they can be friends with the DE other than Malekith.

    High Elves influence is very powerful but still has to be used with a few things in mind- best result is making friends for trade more quickly. Trying to turn 2 of the AI into enemies can work limited ways but don't try it with the same race or races that will end naturally aligned as the diplomacy system is far more powerful than a few influence spendings. Trying to keep Malektih and Morathi from confederated via influence for example is a waste of time. On the other hand getting Dwarfs to fight Lizardmen or Skaven is possible or some of the factions of men to align with you is definitely doable. Best use is to spend early as possible on potential trade partners/allies so as Tyrion any HE factions other than Saphery and Caledor (though some people have said they successfully used influence on Saphery it costs alot more than for the other factions).

    Malekith and Morathi both benefit from slaves economy the longer the campaign goes- just make sure to funnel all slaves into only 2-3 provinces with the best bonuses.

    Mazdamundi and Krok-Gar both start with powerful units available immediately and a decent economy eventually though still relying on gold mines and trade with other Lizardmen/Dwarfs/smaller High Elves factions.

    Skrolk is far easier start than Queek but also less obvious where to go in mid/late campaign as Dark Elves will be on at least 1 border but if Krok-Gar or some Undead control Southlands there will be constant invasions into Lustria from there. Queek has a tough start but once Krok-Gar and Tor Elasor are defeated conquest of Southlands is assured and then Ulthuan or Lustria can fall pretty fast or just defend and race for final ritual.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Impossible to win

    thank you my friends , i had same problem , but with your guidances i can win . thank you very much

  11. #11

    Default Re: Impossible to win

    Quote Originally Posted by Bescheuret View Post
    I've won with most of the races from WHI on VH, but I have no idea how to win WH2. Issues that trapped me:

    1) Dark Elf massive spam. Basically, they get ~80 settlements via conquest and confederation and send endless stacks of elite units at me. Every HE game I have played has ended with me just giving up. My 2 stacks can's stand up to the 4-5 that cycle my way regularly. Trapped in a cycle of rebuilding/recapturing cities. No time for vortex.

    2) Economics is terrible. In WHI, I could support 1 stack every 2 provinces. In WH2, its probably double that. Trade helps some, but can be fiendishly difficult to get. My stack of spearmen against his executioners is not pretty.

    3) Bizarre trade rules. I played DE campaign and a single, fairly worthless town in the corner of my empire was the hub for ALL trade. I lost it and all my trade disappeared. I have no idea why factions on my borders can't trade with me, but factions all the way across the world can.

    4) Played as DE and Lizardmen beat me to the final ritual. I was forced to fight a stack and a half of Carnosaurs, ancient stegadons, and temple guards with piddling help from two remaining loser factions. Maybe if my master stack was full of dragons, hydras, and black naggarond guard, I would stand a chance, but it wasn't. And I was beating the snot out of the Lizardmen on the map, with their capital long in my hands.

    5) Not a big impediment, but the chase mechanic is broken. I can't run down fleeing foes. My cavalry just sits there and refuses to chase. Very odd.

    6) Influence is useless. I've never been able to convince anyone to do anything. My foes love each other for pounding on me and my friends continue to envy my power, no matter how much influence I send them.

    I am hoping there is an EA fix coming out, as this has been very frustrating.

    I think what most people have been doing (that some actually consider game-breakingly easy), is to turtle.

    If you're playing VH/Legendary as Tyrion, this is pretty easy. Get rid of Caledor, which hates you, and occupy that way-stone settlement on the tip of Ulthuan. Avoid confederating - just trade with the other HE factions, and let them deal with the DE.

    Then, just sit and wait as you build up Tyrion's stack with star dragons. The final battle is silly easy (even on VH) as you can just let the other armies rush, and you clean up the leftovers, so you never have to worry about the race to the vortex rituals.

    Turtling also allows you to avoid the enormous Skaven / Chaos stacks that spawn on Ulthuan. They never spawn directly on Lothern, so all you have to do is take them out piecemeal. By the time they're strong enough to overwhelm you, you'll probably have lightning strike, and it's no big deal to pick them off one at a time.

    This also solves your DE invasion problem, because Tiranoc / Saphery (or Ellyrion) will usually get powerful enough to fight off the DE on their own. If you're interested in invading other continents, just wait until you've won the vortex campaign, and the other HE factions will be more than willing to confederate.

    That's pretty HE specific, but the strategy has worked for me on Mazdamundi, Malekith, and Skeek. I haven't beaten Teclis yet, because his campaign is crazy hard already, but it seems to apply to most campaigns.

  12. #12
    Påsan's Avatar Hva i helvete?
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    Default Re: Impossible to win

    Quote Originally Posted by Bescheuret View Post
    I've won with most of the races from WHI on VH, but I have no idea how to win WH2. Issues that trapped me:

    1) Dark Elf massive spam. Basically, they get ~80 settlements via conquest and confederation and send endless stacks of elite units at me. Every HE game I have played has ended with me just giving up. My 2 stacks can's stand up to the 4-5 that cycle my way regularly. Trapped in a cycle of rebuilding/recapturing cities. No time for vortex.
    Well as Teclis you never have to face Dark Elves. However as Tyrion I advice to send an Army to Naggarond just to mess with the dark elves. Prevent them from getting to that massive snowball effect that happens when malekirth and waifumum confederates.


    2) Economics is terrible. In WHI, I could support 1 stack every 2 provinces. In WH2, its probably double that. Trade helps some, but can be fiendishly difficult to get. My stack of spearmen against his executioners is not pretty.
    They upped the army upkeep to 15% per army. Its dumb but as high elves trade can get pretty intense to somewhat counteract that.

    3) Bizarre trade rules. I played DE campaign and a single, fairly worthless town in the corner of my empire was the hub for ALL trade. I lost it and all my trade disappeared. I have no idea why factions on my borders can't trade with me, but factions all the way across the world can.
    Ports. A port has to be connected with your capital to enable sea trade. And landlines have to be connected with your capital via an unbroken (Not mountains) landline as well.

    4) Played as DE and Lizardmen beat me to the final ritual. I was forced to fight a stack and a half of Carnosaurs, ancient stegadons, and temple guards with piddling help from two remaining loser factions. Maybe if my master stack was full of dragons, hydras, and black naggarond guard, I would stand a chance, but it wasn't. And I was beating the snot out of the Lizardmen on the map, with their capital long in my hands.
    Well you lost fair and square then :hmm

    5) Not a big impediment, but the chase mechanic is broken. I can't run down fleeing foes. My cavalry just sits there and refuses to chase. Very odd.
    Its a bug, very annoying.

    6) Influence is useless. I've never been able to convince anyone to do anything. My foes love each other for pounding on me and my friends continue to envy my power, no matter how much influence I send them.
    Influence is boss for nudging in trade agreements and getting op plz nerf lords and heroes.

  13. #13
    ^Gr8^Xander's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Impossible to win

    Quote Originally Posted by Bescheuret View Post
    5) Not a big impediment, but the chase mechanic is broken. I can't run down fleeing foes. My cavalry just sits there and refuses to chase. Very odd.
    It's an annoying bug indeed, what kinda helps is to make sure guard mode is turned off for the chasing unit. For me this usually works.
    Turning guard mode off also seems to stop (flying) units from randomly disengaging an enemy and idling.

  14. #14
    Ultra123's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Impossible to win

    I tend to keep guard mode off for all cavalry, flying, monstrous (like dinos giants & ogres), heroes and lords, and 2 handed units that are expected to be flanking. I still sometimes have issues with running down fleeing units but not so much as when i had guard mode for everything.

    I think its a near necessity for front line units and ranged including artillery though, battle devolves into a mess and for a player like me who enjoys roman like battle lines its really important.
    Originally Posted by Garbarsardar
    R2 is a deeply flawed, partially completed, hastily assembled, sub-par product.

  15. #15
    Yerevan's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Impossible to win

    Not winning is not what upset me with TWW2. It's that there's no fun in how you loose. Chaos armies spawning exactly at the most convenient place is not fun. It's just a lazy game mechanic. I understand player and AI don't play with the same rules, but the advantages the AI get should be more subtle than this absurd teleporting in your back "deus ex machina".
    " Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room! "

  16. #16
    Ultra123's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Impossible to win

    im in the middle of a high elven campaign with the chaos stuff in full swing, its truly annoying. Almost every 10-20 turns 8 stacks some half full of helcannons appear at my northern shoreline requiring 2 stacks guarding key cities to hold and then after repopulate, then when i recover its time for the next wave. I sent a army into bretonnia and the empire to try to combat archaon and end the sham, but im hit every turn with 3+ block army from heroes until one gets through seriously slowing me down.

    TBH i dont think i would mind it so much if it wasnt for the helcannons. Battles against them as high elves is quite fun, but the hellcannons makes it boring as hell. battle usually ends up with me sending anything thats fast be it cav or flying to take out the cannons effectively suicide charging them, and then the more interesting part of the fight begins. Problem is i hate wasting units like this and those retarded cannons are overpowered as killing 1/4 to 1/2 of one unit should it hit and it most often does.
    Originally Posted by Garbarsardar
    R2 is a deeply flawed, partially completed, hastily assembled, sub-par product.

  17. #17
    Påsan's Avatar Hva i helvete?
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    Default Re: Impossible to win

    Dude just dragon breath the hellcannons. Or shems burning gaze from your loremaster 1 shots them. Eagle claws can also take them out or the arrow mechanic for the princess.

  18. #18
    Ultra123's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Impossible to win

    Quote Originally Posted by Påsan View Post
    Dude just dragon breath the hellcannons. Or shems burning gaze from your loremaster 1 shots them. Eagle claws can also take them out or the arrow mechanic for the princess.

    All well and good providing your in range with any of these things and dont take 3 shots from the hellcannon first or more importantly the enemy doesnt have more than 1 , and your missing the point, it isnt that its not counter-able, its not 'fun' at all to fight these units.
    Originally Posted by Garbarsardar
    R2 is a deeply flawed, partially completed, hastily assembled, sub-par product.

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