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Thread: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Second Bulgarian Tsardom (Complete)

  1. #1
    hessam's Avatar Miles
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    Default Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Second Bulgarian Tsardom (Complete)



    SECOND BULGARIAN TSARDOM


    Mountain Scouts

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    (13th century, Tier 1)



    Militia Archers

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    (13th century, Tier 1)


    (14th century, Tier 2)


    (15th century, Tier 3)



    Archers

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    (13th century, Tier 1)


    (14th century, Tier 2)


    (15th century, Tier 3)



    Crossbowmen

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    (14th century, Tier 2)


    (15th century, Tier 3)



    Handgunners

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    (15th century, Tier 3)



    Levy Spearmen

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    (13th century, Tier 1)



    Militia Spearmen

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    (13th century, Tier 1)


    (14th century, Tier 2)


    (15th century, Tier 3)



    Despot’s Spearmen

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    (13th century, Tier 1)


    (14th century, Tier 2)


    (15th century, Tier 3)



    Hooked Pikemen

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    (13th century, Tier 1)


    (14th century, Tier 2)



    Bulgarian Guards

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    (14th century, Tier 2)


    (15th century, Tier 3)



    Axemen

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    (13th century, Tier 1)



    Voivods

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    (13th century, Tier 1)


    (14th century, Tier 2)


    (15th century, Tier 3)



    Macemen

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    (15th century, Tier 3)



    Militia Cavalry

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    (13th century, Tier 1)


    (14th century, Tier 2)


    (15th century, Tier 3)



    Despot’s Cavalry

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    (13th century, Tier 1)


    (14th century, Tier 2)


    (15th century, Tier 3)



    Hussars (in imitation of the Hungarians)

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    (15th century, Tier 3)



    Bolyars

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    (13th century, Tier 1)


    (14th century, Tier 2)


    (15th century, Tier 3)




    Tsar and Bodyguards

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    (13th century, Tier 1)


    (14th century, Tier 2)


    (15th century, Tier 3)



    Last edited by hessam; October 27, 2017 at 01:27 PM.

  2. #2
    hessam's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Second Bulgarian Tsardom (Complete)

    A few footnotes:
    * Some of the units are from the previous roster and so the credit goes to ltd for them (militia archers (tier1), pikemen (tier1), axemen, levy spearmen). some units are also modified versions of his (archers, guardsmen (t2), macemen)
    * Some of the horse types aren't appropriate for the Balkans because I just used vanilla mounts for the screenshots
    * Some of the names could be subject to change.
    * There will be foreign, specially Cuman, units added to the roster (from other rosters rather than creating new units)
    Last edited by hessam; October 27, 2017 at 06:24 AM.

  3. #3
    Teutonic's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Second Bulgarian Tsardom (Complete)

    Nah, don't like the boots of the Bulgarian tzar, it's all cr*p...

    Great stuff hessam, thanks for the work and effort to hugely add to the Bulgarian roster!

    Joking aside, there will be some quibbling and some unit names would need to be tweaked but this is the case with literary every roster. These units provide a very solid base for the Bulgarian faction.

  4. #4
    hessam's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Second Bulgarian Tsardom (Complete)

    thanks but "a very solid base"??? dude this is almost all of it, save for the foreign units.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Second Bulgarian Tsardom (Complete)

    Great unit composition! I like it!

  6. #6
    Teutonic's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Second Bulgarian Tsardom (Complete)

    Quote Originally Posted by hessam View Post
    thanks but "a very solid base"??? dude this is almost all of it, save for the foreign units.
    Sorry for the misunderstanding, I meant this including all the campaign side of it too- building trees, etc. I.e. the completed roster is the base for the rest of the stuff that is to be done for the faction. Plus this preview shows the visual side- maybe stats, unit names, secondary weapons, etc haven't been finalized yet.

    The roster from this preview seems pretty complete in terms of eras and unit types and I am quite happy in these terms as well as pure aesthetics. It brings it up to the level of their neighbours Wallachia and ERE. I think the Serbs still have some holes in their roster.

    Again, sorry the misunderstanding. You've done all this work and some guy says: yeah, this is pretty good but where's the rest of it?

  7. #7

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Second Bulgarian Tsardom (Complete)

    Quote Originally Posted by hessam View Post
    thanks but "a very solid base"??? dude this is almost all of it, save for the foreign units.
    Must be because the new unit preview split to the old but incomplete Ltd's Bulgarian Unit preview. Kinda hard to appreciate completeness when not in the same thread.

    Again, like I said in the dev channel: Hessam stahp, you made the rest of the dev looks bad in comparison, your texture works too sexy
    Last edited by You_Guess_Who; October 27, 2017 at 11:21 AM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Second Bulgarian Tsardom (Complete)

    Most of the units look good, but the Boyars look just ridiculous. What are those hats, the clothes. Why are they not armored and why are they horse archers. Horse archers were mainly allay Cumans (during the 13th century), mercenary Mongols and Turks (during the 14th century) . They are completely wrong and they looked much better before. The Bolyars were the aristocracy and the richest part of the Bulgarian society. Bulgarian army relayed heavily on heavy cavalry.

    "... They are armored with swords, chain mails, bows and long spears. They are not just armored themselves, but also the horses of the nobles are covered in iron and felt."

    "Tactic", Leo VI the Wise, X century
    Last edited by lion8000; October 27, 2017 at 10:40 AM.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Second Bulgarian Tsardom (Complete)

    Relax lion8000. Me and Hessam together, we decided that the Boyars would look like this. They are dressed in the latest fashion and women liked it very much ... except that they had money, they was very good fighters and archers
    That's why it's a great mix between melee and archery unit. Pearl of the whole rooster

    @Hessam Small adjustments in your brilliant work.
    I would add middle swordsmen for the 13th and 14th centuries as precursors of macemen from 15 century
    I never see red painted helmets - maybe without them.
    For horsearchers - cumans - light and heavy - we already have them from cuman roster. And for late horse archers - Tatars from mongol roster

    Thank you for completing the only good bulgarian roster in Total War games!
    [IMG][/IMG]

  10. #10

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Second Bulgarian Tsardom (Complete)

    The Boyars were equal to knights, those are not accurate at all and I haven't seen any sources supporting those outfits. And as I said before the strength of the Bulgarian army was the heavy cavalry.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Second Bulgarian Tsardom (Complete)

    The old units, for comparison:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...garian-Tsardom

    It seems the Shock Cav position of the old T2 Boyars has been replaced by the new Despot's Cav, which also replaces Pronoiari Cav for T1. Perhaps rename the Despots Cavalry into Despot's Bolyars/Bolyar Lancers? Either way, the Bolyar Archers must be an dual-purpose Cav with good melee capability.
    Last edited by You_Guess_Who; October 27, 2017 at 11:25 AM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Second Bulgarian Tsardom (Complete)

    Despot was a Bolyar equal to a lord. My point is that the Bolyars should be heavily shock cavalry. They should be heavily armored (with the best armor possible for the time period), including their horses.

  13. #13
    hessam's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Second Bulgarian Tsardom (Complete)

    @lion8000, The Boyars are meant to be quite skilled both as melee and missile cavalry. Your claim to knowing what the Boyars exactly looked like (while quoting some irrelevant 10th century text 3 centuries before the start of our mod) does not concern me. I don't claim to know what they exactly looked like either. this is just a general, personal take.

    @YGW, yeah. as you've noticed, the despot's cavalry are quite heavily armored and, with the right stats, can play that role perfectly. I don't think a change of name is necessary since the name "Despot's Cavalry" already implies their high military status and as despot's (governor's) hand-picked household troop. same as their spear infantry counterpart.

    @Finix, I was actually thinking of adding a medium infantry myself. And I'll also add Cuman units later after the full cuman roster is released so I can choose from among its units. As for the helmets, Byzantine manuscripts have quite a few examples of painted helmets.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  14. #14

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Second Bulgarian Tsardom (Complete)

    maybe name them Bolyars not Boyars

  15. #15
    hessam's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Second Bulgarian Tsardom (Complete)

    Quote Originally Posted by Garjoka View Post
    maybe name them Bolyars not Boyars
    I asked Finix who's Bulgarian and he said Boyars is more appropriate

  16. #16

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Second Bulgarian Tsardom (Complete)

    Well im bulgarian too and i think that maybe bolyar would be better since that's what they were called

  17. #17
    finix's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Second Bulgarian Tsardom (Complete)

    Hessam leave that manuscript, bulgarians never painted their helmets. Garjoka is right Bolyars is bulgarian name - Boyars is russian name
    [IMG][/IMG]

  18. #18
    hessam's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Second Bulgarian Tsardom (Complete)

    Quote Originally Posted by finix View Post
    Hessam leave that manuscript, bulgarians never painted their helmets. Garjoka is right Bolyars is bulgarian name - Boyars is russian name
    There must have been a miscommunication between you and I. I'll change it to Bolyars then .

    *Edit: Done!
    Last edited by hessam; October 27, 2017 at 01:28 PM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Second Bulgarian Tsardom (Complete)

    Anyways i think that the new rooster is amazing.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Medieval Kingdoms Total War: Second Bulgarian Tsardom (Complete)

    hessam in terms of the Bolyars: first of all I can assure you that the Bulgarians never used such clothes and as I can see from the manuscripts the Bulgarians never used such hats, actually they didn't even wear any hats at all (according to the manuscripts from that era). The Bolyars were extremely rich, so they probably used armor to protect their persons. Horse archery wasn't very popular amongst the Bulgarians, that's why they used mercenaries for this role. The Bolyars probably used bows, but as a secondary weapon. This text isn't irrelevant because it gives an idea what their equipment and tactics were, even if from an earlier period their tactics probably remained the same. What is the despot's cavalry supposed to be and it doesn't seems to be all that heavy. So the Bulgarian cavalry seems to be pretty weak compared to that of the other fractions, which wasn't the case. As I said before Bulgaria relied heavily on heavy cavalry.

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