Should Puerto Rico become a state?

[NorseThing]

Fox just released a poll on Puerto Rico.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...ake-maria.html

By a narrow margin, more voters think Puerto Rico should become a state than think it should stay a territory.




According to the latest Fox News Poll, 41 percent say Puerto Rico should become the 51st star on the flag. That’s an 11-point increase since the last time the question was asked in June 2007, when 30 percent opted for statehood.

There are many reasons both for and against statehood. I would think it best for the territory to have the finances settled first and then we could make a decision on statehood. It would become a medium sized state with its 3 million plus population with about 4 or 5 representatives in the US House of Representatives. Of course, the citizens could then also vote for federal office candidates.

There is concern about the crime rate in Puerto Rico versus the mainland USA. Yes it is higher, but there does not seem to be as much fear of racial based crime. One problem with crime may be drugs because some drug running does go thru PR and ten to the
mainland.

A brief comment on the crime rate (from a propaganda source):

Luckily those numbers have gone down in 2014 and 2015 and PR is as safe as many cities in the U.S. In fact, The FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports (updated 2013) give Puerto Rico the 12th lowest violent crime rate among the 52 jurisdictions reported on by the FBI. (U.S. States + DC + PR). PR has the lowest property crime rate of all 52 jurisdictions.

The metro area of San Juan and other cities, are of course, where much of the crime exists. People can live in these areas without any trouble, as long as they take common-sense precautions: Don’t walk alone at night, keep your doors locked and don’t make yourself a target.

http://livinginpuertorico.com/safest-places/

I am more conservative than liberal. It does depend a bit on the issue. I have no doubt that Puerto Rico will tend to vote for Democrat Party candidates more often than Republican candidates. That is not really a good reason to support or oppose PR entry. Lets not go back to the pre-civil war era where we cannot admit a state because of the political leanings of the residents. It was a mistake regarding supporting or opposing slavery, and it would be a mistake for any other political leaning.

This is a bit of my personal experience and thus I cannot confirm with stats -- PR was a great place for business in the 1960's. We seemed to have passed the island by when we passed NAFTA. NAFTA was a huge help to the Mexican economy but the increased trade did hurt PR.

If you are interested in the economy, I would suggest a quick read from wiki as a start. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Puerto_Rico

They support the democratic process. They are literate. They are hard working. But their economy is a mess, but that is partially (or perhaps entirely) due to the interference of our federal government.

I would favor their entry as a state, but as I said first settle the financial mess.

[Admiral Piett]

Most Puerto Ricans chose not to participate in the statehood vote and the atmosphere prior to Maria was more towards independence. The nation realistically gains nothing with Puerto Rico as a state and they would ultimately have little voice as a mostly non-English speaking area and no real economic output. This sounds strange and radical, but I'd rather favor a democratic annexation of Mexico into the US. At least it has some great economic potential and the US security forces would be in a better position to wipe out the political power of the cartels. If the US and Mexico linked up, then statehood for Puerto Rico would make more sense. America could be a great bridge between the English and Spanish world in such a scenario and that would force the education system to actually make an effort into being fluent in more than one language. Removes the need for a wall and immigration no longer is an issue. All the citizens of Mexico would no longer rely on the crap peso and get the dollar and American investment firms.

[Gaidin]

Maybe we'll give a damn about them if they're a state.

Aside: the number of voters choosing to participate in the vote doesn't matter. It's about who won the vote. Also, whether Congress chooses to acknowledge the idea of letting them into the Union as a state.

[PointOfViewGun]

Why shouldn't they become a state?

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

No, there is absolutely nothing to be gained by making Puerto Rico a state. This would just result in showering Puerto Rico with other people's tax dollars for relatively no return.

[Gaidin]

No, there is absolutely nothing to be gained by making Puerto Rico a state. This would just result in showering Puerto Rico with other people's tax dollars for relatively no return.

Let's kick out about thirty states then.

[Love Mountain]

I don't think there is a process for kicking states out.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Let's kick out about thirty states then.

Okay first of all, those are already states.
Second of all, those are all inhabited by US citizens.
Third that doesn't disprove my point if all you are saying is that we should just spend even more money in order to accommodate Puerto Rico.

[PointOfViewGun]

Okay first of all, those are already states.
Second of all, those are all inhabited by US citizens.
Third that doesn't disprove my point if all you are saying is that we should just spend even more money in order to accommodate Puerto Rico.

Puerto Ricans are also USA citizens...

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Puerto Ricans are also USA citizens...

Not my point. "About thirty states" are US citizens already so kicking them out of the United States because you might as well if the dirt poor Puerto Rico would be a net loss for the United States is nonsensical. It's a contrarian statement but it isn't even an argument.

Puerto Ricans have both US and Puerto Rico citizenship under the 1917 Act and it is a very particular agreement with regards to Puerto Rico being a country under US control. Puerto Ricans do not have the full rights and protections of a US citizen if they do not reside in the United States. Considering that the Jones-Shafroth Act was signed specifically to recognize Puerto Rico and its citizens as a nation separate from the United States, but with the option to become American, you've pretty much just made a moot point. By that logic Puerto Rico should join Spain because it's citizens can also be granted Spanish citizenship.

[PointOfViewGun]

Not my point. "About thirty states" are US citizens already so kicking them out of the United States because you might as well if the dirt poor Puerto Rico would be a net loss for the United States is nonsensical. It's a contrarian statement but it isn't even an argument.

Puerto Ricans have both US and Puerto Rico citizenship under the 1917 Act and it is a very particular agreement with regards to Puerto Rico being a country under US control. Puerto Ricans do not have the full rights and protections of a US citizen if they do not reside in the United States. Considering that the Jones-Shafroth Act was signed specifically to recognize Puerto Rico and its citizens as a nation separate from the United States, but with the option to become American, you've pretty much just made a moot point. By that logic Puerto Rico should join Spain because it's citizens can also be granted Spanish citizenship.

One of your points was that those, the actual states, are all inhabited by USA citizens. You likely wasn't aware that Puerto Ricans were also citizens of USA, carrying a USA passport. So, no need to dance around it. The fact that those net loss states inhabit USA citizens doesn't really mean anything as well, hence, you failed to provide a rationale for. You basically have no real argument for why USA should keep all the net loss states if the reason to keep Puerto Rico out is because you think it would be a net loss state.

To label Puerto Rico as dirt poor is also a very sour thing to do since their economy is ranked around 30s in GDP per capita numbers.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Because those states are part of the USA and Puerto Rico is not a state. Should the UK annex Cadiz because it has a tonne of British expats? Should China annex Hong Kong?
The difference of Puerto Rico is clear, it is considered its own nation (the island and its citizens) and so the USA doesn't need to annex Puerto Rico. Puerto Ricans ARE citizens of Puerto Rico, have access to US residence and can be granted Spanish citizenship as well. Since you ignored it I might as well say it again: citizens of Puerto Rico do not have the full rights and benefits of US citizens unless they reside in the United States.

[hellheaven1987]

No because the bureaucracy of Washington would be rage about "fixing" Puerto Rico.

[Love Mountain]

From an economic perspective I agree with Oda, but there is a strong case for accepting Puerto Rico as a state simply because Puerto Ricans are U.S. citizens and thus should be afforded all the benefits of U.S. citizenship. That said, they could just move to U.S. to enjoy those benefits, but mobility has always been weak. Especially among the poor who have neither the resources nor the know-how to successfully migrate. So there is definitely a case there.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

I would agree had the various acts and laws that were passed not been so adamant about making Puerto Rico a separate nation from the United States. As it stands the people of Puerto Rico can move for complete citizenship benefits by going to the United States. Heck there is even the option to renounce US citizenship and being only a citizen of Puerto Rico.

Besides the best course of action would be to make Puerto Rico part of Spain again, the Sun never sets.

[NorseThing]

From an economic perspective I agree with Oda, but there is a strong case for accepting Puerto Rico as a state simply because Puerto Ricans are U.S. citizens and thus should be afforded all the benefits of U.S. citizenship. That said, they could just move to U.S. to enjoy those benefits, but mobility has always been weak. Especially among the poor who have neither the resources nor the know-how to successfully migrate. So there is definitely a case there.

The reason I began this thread is in part because there are many within Puerto Rico that want to become a state but will not want to ask for admission until they are confident that the USA will accept Puerto Rico. Fear of rejection is real for many people and not just about admission as a state. I know that TWC is not millions of people expressing interest. I did want to find out what the members are thinking and more importantly why they are thinking that way. All of the response (not just yours) are appreciated!!!

[hellheaven1987]

Guam and Northern Mariana Islands should become state too if Puerto Rico becomes one.

[Love Mountain]

There's no point giving two senators to Guam or Northern Mariana Islands.

[hellheaven1987]

There's no point giving two senators to Guam or Northern Mariana Islands.

You can combine both and give them two senators.

[PointOfViewGun]

Because those states are part of the USA and Puerto Rico is not a state. Should the UK annex Cadiz because it has a tonne of British expats? Should China annex Hong Kong?
The difference of Puerto Rico is clear, it is considered its own nation (the island and its citizens) and so the USA doesn't need to annex Puerto Rico. Puerto Ricans ARE citizens of Puerto Rico, have access to US residence and can be granted Spanish citizenship as well. Since you ignored it I might as well say it again: citizens of Puerto Rico do not have the full rights and benefits of US citizens unless they reside in the United States.

Well, I'm at least glad you've completely sidetracked from your initial points as they were moot to the core. It's also nice of you to avoid addressing anything I said. Makes things much easier... Saying that Puerto Rico can join Spain just because its citizens have priority in getting Spanish citizenship is just a plainly idiotic argument. You're not even trying.

I'm gonna ask a simple question: Is Puerto Rico bound by policies of Donald Trump or Mariano Rajoy?