Swedish statistics over sexual assaults revealed

[PointOfViewGun]

It's matter of support of the masses, plenty of polls how there are big % support amongst muslim populations for even terrorist strikes, which got also shown how the Paris terrorist strikers got hidden by non-terrorist muslims in Molenbeek ghetto. Christian terrorism on other hand as niche joke mostly in the west in comparison. So even if the support for suicide bombing against civilian targets in name of Islam is 'only' 10% to 40%, that's still many hundred million muslims being supportive for this craziness and which enabled something like ISIS caliphate even form and last for years. Nothing even close as crazy on this scale comes out of christianity these days.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

In a 2007 Pew Research poll in response to a question on whether suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets to defend Islam could be justified,^[33] in Europe:

• (36 vs 64) 64% of Muslims in France believed it could never be justified, 19% believed it could be justified rarely, 10% sometimes, and 6% thought it could be justified often.
• (30 vs 70) 70% of Muslims in the UK believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 12% sometimes, and 3% thought it could be justified often.
• (17 vs 83) 83% of Muslims in Germany believed it could never be justified, 6% believed it could be justified rarely, 6% sometimes, and 1% thought it could be justified often.
• (31 vs 69) 69% of Muslims in Spain believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 10% sometimes, and 6% thought it could be justified often.

In mainly Muslim countries:

• (55 vs 45) 45% of Muslims in Egypt believed it could never be justified, 25% believed it could be justified rarely, 20% sometimes, and 8% thought it could be justified often.
• (39 vs 61) 61% of Muslims in Turkey believed it could never be justified, 9% believed it could be justified rarely, 14% sometimes, and 3% thought it could be justified often.
• (57 vs 43) 43% of Muslims in Jordan believed it could never be justified, 28% believed it could be justified rarely, 24% sometimes, and 5% thought it could be justified often.
• (72 vs 28) 28% of Muslims in Nigeria believed it could never be justified, 23% believed it could be justified rarely, 38% sometimes, and 8% thought it could be justified often.
• (31 vs 69) 69% of Muslims in Pakistan believed it could never be justified, 8% believed it could be justified rarely, 7% sometimes, and 7% thought it could be justified often.
• (29 vs 71) 71% of Muslims in Indonesia believed it could never be justified, 18% believed it could be justified rarely, 8% sometimes, and 2% thought it could be justified often.

This is some next level whataboutism though, pointing out there has been huge waves of allahu ackbar terrorism in Europe in recent years, and you link couple random individual whackos from Texas saying "look christians do it too, they are just as bad!"

Well, it's not like I pointed at those articles after you mentioned Christians. No, not at all. Sigh... Just like the polls you posted there, based on a Gallup poll, half the Americans find it sometimes justified when military targets civilians. The poll also shows that, in percentage, more Americans believe that is justified or sometimes justified for individuals or groups to target civilians.

You copy pasted those poll numbers from Wikipedia but obviously haven't checked them out for yourself as the number are not correct. Here is the actual source of the poll. Looks like a number of those numbers are false. You can check out the table 1 yourself.

What's most disgusting here is how you try to portray as if Muslims living in Brussels hid terrorists as a whole. What you preach here is hate. Not facts. Not logic. Simply hatred. It's the same logic that people who call Europeans in general Nazis, and Americans in general KKK clansmen.

[95thrifleman]

Civilians have always been legitimate targets, look at Hiroshima and Dresden.

Can't blame muslims for feeling the same way as everyone else on the subject

[Ziltoid]

Well, it's not like I pointed at those articles after you mentioned Christians. No, not at all. Sigh... Just like the polls you posted there, based on a Gallup poll, half the Americans find it sometimes justified when military targets civilians. The poll also shows that, in percentage, more Americans believe that is justified or sometimes justified for individuals or groups to target civilians.

This is pretty different still from supporting global jihad with suicide bombing of civilians.

You copy pasted those poll numbers from Wikipedia but obviously haven't checked them out for yourself as the number are not correct. Here is the actual source of the poll. Looks like a number of those numbers are false. You can check out the table 1 yourself.

I waste enough time as it is to this nonsense just to get flurry of insults and labels back, so i can't go through every source with magnifying lense when they are even far off-topic. Wikipedia seemed most non-biased middleground to quick get some generic polls on the matter.

The research i got the numbers from was: "Muslim Americans: Middle Class and Mostly Mainstream" (PDF). Pew Research. 22 May 2007. p. 97. Retrieved 10 October 2014. Which seems unavailable anymore on Pew site.
Not the 2006 one you linked, which also contains plenty of questionable results itself:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Hardly results you should praise as great counter example of muslims being unsupportive towards terrorism.

What's most disgusting here is how you try to portray as if Muslims living in Brussels hid terrorists as a whole.

That's where those terrorists were from, and that's where they went back into hiding, and the locals didn't help authorities finding em either. It's part of bigger problem of muslim ghettofication in which potential terrorist groups having fertile land for radicalisation and to form within Europe is only one of the myriad issues related to em.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/brussel...ism-1518085801

Under the authority of zoning regulations, district authorities have launched periodic checks to ensure Molenbeek’s mosques aren’t fostering militant versions of Islam. Five of the neighborhood’s 25 mosques and Quranic schools have been shut down on those grounds over the past two years.

Molenbeek’s predominantly Moroccan migrant community has long formed a largely closed culture, officials say, complicating efforts to better integrate the neighborhood into the larger economy and to monitor radicalized residents. “We live here like at home; this is like Morocco,” a young woman wearing a head scarf said as she crossed Molenbeek’s main square with a friend on Tuesday.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34839403

The recent Paris attacks have thrust Molenbeek into the international spotlight. Belgian authorities carried out a series of raids searching for key suspects believed to have lived in the area. Two people arrested have been charged with terrorist offences.But Molenbeek has a history of connections with cases of extremism. It was searched as part of anti-terror operations that were carried out in Belgium in the wake of the Charlie Hebdo attacks.

A suspect in a thwarted attack on a high-speed train from Belgium to France was reported to have stayed at his sister's house in Molenbeek, and a Frenchman accused of shooting dead four people last year at the Jewish Museum in Brussels also spent time in the area, according to Reuters news agency.
"Molenbeek is a strange part of the town," Brussels-based intelligence expert Claude Moniquet said.

"It has a very mixed population with thousands of immigrants, approximately half are of Muslim descent and in some parts 70-80%.

"That means no mixing population and the possibility of a place to hide for terrorists."

What you preach here is hate. Not facts. Not logic. Simply hatred. It's the same logic that people who call Europeans in general Nazis, and Americans in general KKK clansmen.

So there is only utopistic denial of these problems with "refugees welcome" attitude where they can do no wrong, and literally being nazi for bringing up actual statistics about issues related to these newcomers? I don't think the world is that black&white, but id still rather atleast face the facts and statistics than live in ignorance over em when they don't fit political narrative of my world view.

Civilians have always been legitimate targets, look at Hiroshima and Dresden.

Can't blame muslims for feeling the same way as everyone else on the subject

Yeah because WWII total war is completely same as pushing for global jihad through suicide bombing/terrorist striking various western countries that many aren't even related to any middle eastern conflicts. How did Finland for example deserve terrorist stabbing spree on Turku marketplace last year? How is it comparable to bombing axis nations in 1945 in attempt to end war sooner? Im curious to hear your reasoning.

[95thrifleman]

Yeah because WWII total war is completely same as pushing for global jihad through suicide bombing/terrorist striking various western countries that many aren't even related to any middle eastern conflicts. How did Finland for example deserve terrorist stabbing spree on Turku marketplace last year? How is it comparable to bombing axis nations in 1945 in attempt to end war sooner? Im curious to hear your reasoning.

Human nature.

I'd imagine polls taken in the Catholic and Protestant communities of NI during the troubles would show similar support for IRA and UVF attacks on civilians. I doubt many in the UK would of shed any tears if the Falklands esclated and we bombed mainline Argentina.

People tend to feel sympathy for similar communities and factions. Does it mean they will go out and do it themselves? Of course not.

If you asked me 20 years ago if I'd condone civilian casualties in order to end the troubles I'd of said yes with out blinking an eye. To this day I see Bloody Sunday as inevitable and the IRA's fault.

Do one of those surveys in New York and ask Americans if they condone attacks on civilian populations in order to destroy islamic terrorism and I would imagine you'd get a good 60% saying yes.

[PointOfViewGun]

This is pretty different still from supporting global jihad with suicide bombing of civilians.
I waste enough time as it is to this nonsense just to get flurry of insults and labels back, so i can't go through every source with magnifying lense when they are even far off-topic. Wikipedia seemed most non-biased middleground to quick get some generic polls on he matter.
The research i got the numbers from was: "Muslim Americans: Middle Class and Mostly Mainstream" (PDF). Pew Research. 22 May 2007. p. 97. Retrieved 10 October 2014. Which seems unavailable anymore on Pew site.
Not the 2006 one you linked, which also contains plenty of questionable results itself:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Hardly results you should praise as great counter example of muslims being unsupportive towards terrorism.
That's where those terrorists were from, and that's where they went back into hiding, and the locals didn't help authorities finding em either. It's part of bigger problem of muslim ghettofication in which potential terrorist groups having fertile land for radicalisation and to form within Europe is only one of the myriad issues related to em.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/brussel...ism-1518085801
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34839403
So there is only utopistic denial of these problems with "refugees welcome" attitude where they can do no wrong, and literally being nazi for bringing up actual statistics about issues related to these newcomers? I don't think the world is that black&white, but id still rather atleast face the facts and statistics than live in ignorance over em when they don't fit political narrative of my world view.

When someone starts dissecting a post like that it's a clear sign that they're trying to dilute the discussion...
First, you claim that justifying suicide bombing of civilians is pretty different from justifying individuals or groups attacking civilians. That pretty much speaks for itself...
Second, you claim that you got your numbers from the study you cite there. You know how I know that's BS? The link directory is old and doesn't work. What you did was that you copy pasted from Wikipedia and didn't bother to check it out. I have checked PEW and the PEW article that I found to be covering those countries doesn't back up your numbers.
Amazing how because a few people from a criminal gang that might have known where the attackers were didn't help the police that means all Muslims are criminals. Truly disgusting. No, calling that disgusting is not saying "refugees welcome" or to argue that no refugee can be a criminal. To call it disgusting is a product of common decency. Nobody called you a Nazi for bringing statistics as well. I merely pointed out how you had no trouble with copy pasting from Wikipedia without even checking the source. What you're doing here is not facing facts. Make no mistake.

[Aexodus]

POVG, what about the over representation of Iraqis in Finland? Is that not a legitimate statistic?

[mongrel]

POVG, what about the over representation of Iraqis in Finland? Is that not a legitimate statistic?

I can imagine it now, the Scandi police having to down tools and cease bothering catching offenderz coz someone on teh internetz sez there are lotz of Iraqiz in Finland, making all other crimez, as Ziltoid put it 'average'.

[PointOfViewGun]

POVG, what about the over representation of Iraqis in Finland? Is that not a legitimate statistic?

You need to provide some actual information for us to consider that. Don't we?

[Love Mountain]

POVG, what about the over representation of Iraqis in Finland? Is that not a legitimate statistic?

I'm sorry Aexodus. I did skim through the last few pages, but I can't seem to find what you're talking about. Could you possibly repost it for us?

[Aexodus]

You need to provide some actual information for us to consider that. Don't we?

I'm sorry Aexodus. I did skim through the last few pages, but I can't seem to find what you're talking about. Could you possibly repost it for us?

No problem. I posted it yesterday which restarted this conversation.

Does Finland have a similar problem?

The MP published a dark list of rape news - "This must be reacted immediately"

Oulu police warn families: Foreign-based men attract young girls to contact

Interior Minister Oulu's rape ring over Ylelle: "This should not happen in Finland" - expulsion is accelerated


Rape in Finland - "The foreigners' share of the eye"

Optula's research focussed on the rape crimes dealt with by law in 2006-2009.During that time, a total of 262 rapists were convicted in Finland.Judgments were imposed on coercion, sexual intercourse, rape, or gross rape.Of every rape of crime, every four convicts had a background abroad: either nationality of another country or dual nationality.

There were 30 perpetrators of basic forms of rape, of which 34 per cent were convicted. Thirteen people convicted of cruel rape, or 41 per cent, were foreign-based.

HS: Iraqis alarmingly featured in rape statistics - KRP calls for stricter action

According to an analysis by the National Bureau of Investigation, one thousand Iraqi perpetrators in Finland have reported 12.9 cases of sexual assault.The corresponding proportion of Finnish citizens was 0.3.

The difference is partly explained by the age.Iraqi men in Finland are more often offenders than young Finns and younger people commit to sexual offenses.Nevertheless, among the 15 to 35-year-olds, the proportion of Iraqis is significantly higher than those of sexual offenders compared to Finns: according to HS, about 22 and Finnish citizens 1.6 were among the thousands of Iraqi young men perpetrating sexual assault suspects.

Are foreigners over-represented

[PointOfViewGun]

No problem. I posted it yesterday which restarted this conversation.

You need to provide proper statistics. Google translated foreign articles doesn't help us. I was responding using the number in your last link at which point I realized it was not talking about prevalence but frequency of individual's crimes. Please provide a proper study.

[Ziltoid]

When someone starts dissecting a post like that it's a clear sign that they're trying to dilute the discussion...

Certain people coming to this topic calling people islamophobic is what caused this off-topic trainwreck quote wars in the first place. Id rather speak of the topic, statistical data and such rather than blanket accusations like that thrown around, but i won't stand idle either when being called such names.

First, you claim that justifying suicide bombing of civilians is pretty different from justifying individuals or groups attacking civilians. That pretty much speaks for itself...

Yes there is huge difference in total war situation, Dresden civilian bombings in 1945 and Hiroshima already got mentioned, compared to pushing religious suicide cult extremism in the western countries without any war just in name of religion.

Second, you claim that you got your numbers from the study you cite there. You know how I know that's BS? The link directory is old and doesn't work. What you did was that you copy pasted from Wikipedia and didn't bother to check it out. I have checked PEW and the PEW article that I found to be covering those countries doesn't back up your numbers.

The numbers in the 2006 link you posted afterwards worked and still pointed to same conclusion of muslim countries having very high support for something as crazy as suicide bombings of civilian targets in name of Islam.

Amazing how because a few people from a criminal gang that might have known where the attackers were didn't help the police that means all Muslims are criminals.

That is your words, not mine. I said muslim ghetto of Molenbeek helped them to hide which is a fact. ISIS inspired terrorist cell would certainly stick out in your average belgian neighborhood more. Especially after they've done perhaps the bloodiest terrorist strike of Europe this decade and returned to their base area.

The area certainly was good breeding grounds for these kind of groups and 'the wrong kind of islam' considering they had to shutdown places there like described in this quote below:

Under the authority of zoning regulations, district authorities have launched periodic checks to ensure Molenbeek’s mosques aren’t fostering militant versions of Islam. Five of the neighborhood’s 25 mosques and Quranic schools have been shut down on those grounds over the past two years.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/brussel...ism-1518085801

Truly disgusting. No, calling that disgusting is not saying "refugees welcome" or to argue that no refugee can be a criminal. To call it disgusting is a product of common decency. Nobody called you a Nazi for bringing statistics as well. I merely pointed out how you had no trouble with copy pasting from Wikipedia without even checking the source. What you're doing here is not facing facts. Make no mistake.

There are many other sources also showing that there is scary % amount of muslim population that is in favour of terrorism. Islam has culture of religious martyrdom, getting into paradise with your 72 virgins, by doing suicide strike in name of Islam, so even 10% of population believing in that being justified, means there are way too many potential terrorists amongst em. 2015-2017 wave of 'allahu ackbar' muslim terror in Europe is enough proof of that.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/rel...errorists.html

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

One in four British Muslims sympathise with terrorists behind the Charlie Hebdo attacks, a new poll shows.

A poll reveals how a significant minority of Muslims endorse terrorist atrocities against those who mock the Prophet Mohammed.

Some 27 per cent of British Muslims said they have "some sympathy for the motives behind the attacks" on the Paris magazine, according to polling by ComRes for the BBC.

A further 32 per cent said they were not surprised by the attacks. Some 11 per cent said that magazines which publish images of the Prophet Mohammed "deserve to be attacked."

And only 68 per cent of British Muslims said that attacks on the publishers of images of the Prophet are "never" justified, while 24 disagreed.

The amount of willing recruits for ISIS leaving there from western countries speaks also by itself. Finland even gets mentioned in some studies, though i really much doubt they got their numbers right for countries like Pakistan. And considering it's mostly somalis from Finland who left, they went to likely join Al-Shabaab in Somalia, rather than ISIS in middle east.

[PointOfViewGun]

Certain people coming to this topic calling people islamophobic is what caused this off-topic trainwreck quote wars in the first place. Id rather speak of the topic, statistical data and such rather than blanket accusations like that thrown around, but i won't stand idle either when being called such names.
Yes there is huge difference in total war situation, Dresden civilian bombings in 1945 and Hiroshima already got mentioned, compared to pushing religious suicide cult extremism in the western countries without any war just in name of religion.
The numbers in the 2006 link you posted afterwards worked and still pointed to same conclusion of muslim countries having very high support for something as crazy as suicide bombings of civilian targets in name of Islam.
That is your words, not mine. I said muslim ghetto of Molenbeek helped them to hide which is a fact. ISIS inspired terrorist cell would certainly stick out in your average belgian neighborhood more. Especially after they've done perhaps the bloodiest terrorist strike of Europe this decade and returned to their base area.
The area certainly was good breeding grounds for these kind of groups and 'the wrong kind of islam' considering they had to shutdown places there like described in this quote below:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/brussel...ism-1518085801
There are many other sources also showing that there is scary % amount of muslim population that is in favour of terrorism. Islam has culture of religious martyrdom, getting into paradise with your 72 virgins, by doing suicide strike in name of Islam, so even 10% of population believing in that being justified, means there are way too many potential terrorists amongst em. 2015-2017 wave of 'allahu ackbar' muslim terror in Europe is enough proof of that.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/rel...errorists.html
The amount of willing recruits for ISIS leaving there from western countries speaks also by itself. Finland even gets mentioned in some studies, though i really much doubt they got their numbers right for countries like Pakistan. And considering it's mostly somalis from Finland who left, they went to likely join Al-Shabaab in Somalia, rather than ISIS in middle east.

I didn't call you an Islamaphobe.
I don't really care about WWII bombing practices, neither the people who responded to the poll did since they did not respond to it in 1946.
Yes, the numbers in my link were higher than what we'd like to have and so did the numbers from the poll on Americans.
Your words defended against the notion that ISIL's actions do not represent all Muslims by citing how Molenbeek Muslims "helped" a terrorist.
Religious martyrdom is not something that's unique to Islam. Pretty much all religions have it.
The last part of your post makes it obvious what you're arguing here in general. You make a point. We contextualize that point. Show its flaws or outright falsehoods. You jump to other points. Hence, you're not posting facts. You're trying to disparage 1.6 billion people based on the actions of the few.

[Aexodus]

You need to provide proper statistics. Google translated foreign articles doesn't help us. I was responding using the number in your last link at which point I realized it was not talking about prevalence but frequency of individual's crimes. Please provide a proper study.

According to an analysis by the National Bureau of Investigation, one thousand Iraqi perpetrators in Finland have reported 12.9 cases of sexual assault.The corresponding proportion of Finnish citizens was 0.3.


The difference is partly explained by the age.Iraqi men in Finland are more often offenders than young Finns and younger people commit to sexual offenses.Nevertheless, among the 15 to 35-year-olds, the proportion of Iraqis is significantly higher than those of sexual offenders compared to Finns: according to HS, about 22 and Finnish citizens 1.6 were among the thousands of Iraqi young men perpetrating sexual assault suspects.

These are your statistics. I would need Ziltoid to find the original report, but those are numbers found by the Finnish National Bureau of Investigation.

[PointOfViewGun]

These are your statistics. I would need Ziltoid to find the original report, but those are numbers found by the Finnish National Bureau of Investigation.

Those are my statistics? No. Those are numbers you think you understand based on a dubious Google translation. Read my post above first as I address them specifically. Then come back with a proper study.

[Ziltoid]

These are your statistics. I would need Ziltoid to find the original report, but those are numbers found by the Finnish National Bureau of Investigation.

The study you refer is on HS.fi but behind paywall and i don't have access to it because of that. There are several other sites though that bring out its mainpoints and they all tell the same story:
12,9 out of 1000 iraqis are sexual crime suspects, while similar number for finns are 0,3 out of 1000.

This from all population though, if you make more detailed group analysis about only young men (15-35), then its 22 out of 1000 for iraqis and 1,6 out of 1000 for finns. Out of 93 sexual crimes done by foreigners in 2015-2016, 45 were done by iraqis so they are very much overpresented viewed that way too.


https://www.alandsnyheter.com/wp-con...129_verkko.pdf
There is official police upon 2016 crime statistics of migrants, mostly in finnish with some parts in english.

Some parts of it translated on this site though:
https://voiceofeurope.com/2018/05/93...untries-study/

Currently media debate is pretty heated due the immigrant grooming gang of found out in Oulu, so it's pretty much daily in news at the moment.

[PointOfViewGun]

The study you refer is on HS.fi but behind paywall and i don't have access to it because of that. There are several other sites though that bring out its mainpoints and they all tell the same story:
12,9 out of 1000 iraqis are sexual crime suspects, while similar number for finns are 0,3 out of 1000.
This from all population though, if you make more detailed group analysis about only young men (15-35), then its 22 out of 1000 for iraqis and 1,6 out of 1000 for finns. Out of 93 sexual crimes done by foreigners in 2015-2016, 45 were done by iraqis so they are very much overpresented viewed that way too.
https://www.alandsnyheter.com/wp-con...129_verkko.pdf
There is official police upon 2016 crime statistics of migrants, mostly in finnish with some parts in english.
Some parts of it translated on this site though:
https://voiceofeurope.com/2018/05/93...untries-study/
Currently media debate is pretty heated due the immigrant grooming gang of found out in Oulu, so it's pretty much daily in news at the moment.

It is extremely suspicious that a government study is hidden behind a pay wall but let's use it.
The numbers you speak of are quite problematic as well.
For starters, you talk about suspects, not convicted people. Let's assume they are convicted sexual criminals.
With about 35 thousand Iraqis living in Finland a rate of 12.9 out of 1,000 would make 451.5 suspects.
When you talked about the 15-35 age group you speak of 45 crimes, which leaves about 400 that would be committed by Iraqis older than 35...
Then your English link talks about 131 Finnish victims and 116 suspects.
These numbers don't click...

This reminds me of a study from Finland that set up an anonymous call line for rape victims. The numbers were much different almost flipping the proportions upside down. The most important fact was, however, that most rape victims do not report the crime. One reason for that was that Finnish women were overwhelmingly raped by a family member or partner. I'll post it if I can find a live link.

[Ziltoid]

https://www.iltalehti.fi/kotimaa/a/c...f-af2fc9d0d473

12% of rapes in 2017 done by Iraqis. That's pretty significant overrepresentation out of ~15k iraqis in country of 5,5 million. 0,2% doing 12%.

Total there was 938 rapes in 2017. Foreigners were behind in 30,5% of the cases.

These statistics base on Police and Finnish Goverment official statistics that Iltalehti requested access to.