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Thread: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.3 released!

  1. #681

    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.3 released!

    In-game? There's an oddity unique to the Medieval II engine (that many, many mods suffer from) where switching from grand campaign to custom battle and then back again will hard-crash the game. Once you're in the main menu, pick campaign or custom battle and don't jump around without restarting

    If you're getting in-game (as in, during a campaign or in the middle of a battle) crashes, try reading the sticky on stability by z3n.

  2. #682

    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.3 released!

    Hello. In the descr_sounds_music file, what faction(s) Iberia refers to ? (cul_7 -semitic music)

  3. #683

    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.3 released!

    Hello, I’ve been playing a campaign as the Saka Rauka for a few weeks now (about 350 turns in, minimap spoilered below for anyone interested in faction progression in my game), and been having a great time, though I have noticed a few things you might want to consider looking into.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    The main one is recruitment in India, which may not be a Problem for other factions, but I found for the Saka was incredibly restrictive until I got the settled reforms.
    Let me use the two southernmost provinces – Patala and Girnar as an example. When I first took these, I built allied states in both (not having much of a choice if I wanted to be able to build much of anything having not gotten the settled reforms yet), but aside from the Laghu Asvanika cavalry, all of the troops available require 35% Urbanised Tribal States or 35% Pastoral Tribalism (and it seems like somewhat of an oversight that these have no culture requirement when literally every other Indian troop type in the allied government does).

    Now, Patala Starts on turn 1 with 50 Pastoral and 30 Urbanised, whilst Girnar has 25 Pastoral and 40 Urbanised. Obviously this may change somewhat depending on who owns them first, but I captured these cities relatively quickly off of the rebels, and between the conversion towards “Independent” culture from the Allied government and conversion to “Steppe Nomadism” from being owned by me and whatever influence the Client Ruler had, I found myself unable to recruit anything from the Allied government very quickly as both these culture types crossed the 35% break point and I was unable to access anything other than the previously mentioned Laghu Asvanika cavalry. The same is true for the factional governments for the Saka in India once you've unlocked them, which has a lot of the indian troops locked by the same culture requirements, but I'm less worried about those as you have access to plenty of Sakan troops at this point and makes more sense that the local tribal troops would be superceded anyway, though imo the culture breakpoint for these troops is maybe still a little high.

    I do quite like the idea of linking troop types to the culture like this, but especially when there is nothing to replace troops being lost from culture change, and the culture threshold is as relatively low as this, I feel as though it could do with tweaking. So just putting it out there as something you guys might want to look into when you have time.

    The other things I’ve noticed are all quite minor, and you’ve probably already had pointed out, so sorry if I’m repeating anything that had been posted elsewhere:

    • The Bactrian elite infantry are missing a description
    • One of my FM’s got the Ancillary ‘Manthravardaka of Athena_Alkidormos’, with what appears to be an unwanted underscore in the name
    • You can build a “Local Military Settlements” building in Kushi, but it offers no recruitment to the Saka
    • The Recruitment Report Popup text seems to start with a ‘>’ for some reason.
      Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Otherwise, I've found the Saka a fun change of pace from my last campaign, and overall the campaign has been really stable, I only had one crash somewhere around turn 150 during Carthage's turn when I ended mine. Nothing useful from the logs I could find, but I just went back to a save from a few turns back and it was fine.

    Keep up the good work!

  4. #684

    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.3 released!

    One element of your query around India - that you basically can't do anything but Allied Government before the settling reform, is by design. However, I do wonder about a rethink on how to manage the tribal/urban split in Indian recruitment. It's the only place that still uses a culture-based trigger, and there's a good reason they've been almost entirely removed.

    I'll look into the other points, the lack of eastcol recruitment in Kushi is an oversight.

  5. #685

    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.3 released!

    Oh, I didn't mean to imply I thought that only being able to build Allied Governments in India before the settlement reform was a problem, I just added that comment as an aside about what I was doing in the region, sorry if it came across as otherwise.

    Thanks for looking into it.

  6. #686

    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.3 released!

    Why can't you recruit Arioi at Isamnion, Dunopalator and Moridumon? Even after establishing a Kingdom, you still can't recruit them.

  7. #687

    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.3 released!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tactics Mayers View Post
    Why can't you recruit Arioi at Isamnion, Dunopalator and Moridumon? Even after establishing a Kingdom, you still can't recruit them.
    They have their own nobles.

  8. #688

    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.3 released!

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    They have their own nobles.
    So the Caledonian and Goidelic Cavalry are basically the nobles right? That doesn't explain Moridumon since the only unique unit they have is the Silures.

    Also, after completely dominating the British Isles and waiting for 200+, the Aedui and the Sweboz decided to declare war against me and they actually sent an a land invasion force. Quite surprising since I expected to be safe.

  9. #689

    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.3 released!

    Do the Allied Oligarchic and Allied democratic systems convert to the local (original) culture or slowly to the culture of the conqueror of the settlement ?

  10. #690

    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.3 released!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tactics Mayers View Post
    So the Caledonian and Goidelic Cavalry are basically the nobles right? That doesn't explain Moridumon since the only unique unit they have is the Silures.
    They are, yes. Excluding Moridumon was an error, they don't have their own nobles planned.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tactics Mayers View Post
    Also, after completely dominating the British Isles and waiting for 200+, the Aedui and the Sweboz decided to declare war against me and they actually sent an a land invasion force. Quite surprising since I expected to be safe.
    Yep, AI-Sweboz likes Britain, and AI-Pritanoi likes Belgic-Gaul.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaskad View Post
    Do the Allied Oligarchic and Allied democratic systems convert to the local (original) culture or slowly to the culture of the conqueror of the settlement ?
    No, they fast-convert to a low level of Eleutheroi/Independent, and naturally to a degree of the conqueror's culture.

  11. #691

    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.3 released!

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ McGuire View Post
    The other things I’ve noticed are all quite minor, and you’ve probably already had pointed out, so sorry if I’m repeating anything that had been posted elsewhere:

    • One of my FM’s got the Ancillary ‘Manthravardaka of Athena_Alkidormos’, with what appears to be an unwanted underscore in the name
    • The Recruitment Report Popup text seems to start with a ‘>’ for some reason.
    Thanks, fixed both of those in the dev build.
    EBII Council

  12. #692

    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.3 released!

    Continuing on with my 200+ turn Pritanoi playthrough, I've managed a successful invasion of the Sweboz, capturing Hleifpoz, Himbroburgs and even their Capital of Leufana. Whether it's the power of my general's druidic education or the distance of the capital, isn't it strange how low the unrest level is? The culture of the Germanic settlements is quite different and yet I did not suffer heavy unrest what so ever.

    Also, is it normal to be able to recruit so many Arioi once you've established a Petty Kingdom? For every settlment in the British Isles with a Petty Kingdom, you get to recruit a maximum of 2 Arioi at once. These powerful elite infantry that has a ridiculously high attack power and can inspire your units to fight to the death.
    Last edited by Tactics Mayers; April 15, 2018 at 08:07 AM.

  13. #693

    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.3 released!

    Technically it's normal, yes, as British nobles aren't meant to be SUPER special, but then again you are correct in that their stats and capabilities are incredibly powerful for a relatively unrestricted unit. Might need a nerf to stats or decrease in availability.

  14. #694

    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.3 released!

    Quote Originally Posted by HarkonRules View Post
    Technically it's normal, yes, as British nobles aren't meant to be SUPER special, but then again you are correct in that their stats and capabilities are incredibly powerful for a relatively unrestricted unit. Might need a nerf to stats or decrease in availability.
    They have the almost the same power as the Halithoz of the Sweboz. Although the Halithoz are limited to only 1 unit per settlement no matter what and that they will fight to the death. What I don't get is their high atk power that even surpasses the falx wielders. Is that due to the fact that the Pritanoi and the Sweboz are "wild" when compared to the Gallic Factions?

  15. #695

    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.3 released!

    I have noticed some things i would like to give feedback on:

    - The Basilike Patris for different factions:
    As Nabatu, you benefit from the phalanx hidden resource (the one for antiocheia, alexandreia and pella), like the macedonian factions do. But Nabatu is not a macedonian faction, it isn't even a hellenistic one. On the other hand, Pontos is eastern, and doesn't benefit. Pergamon and Bactria are hellenistic, but not macedonian, and do benefit. I'm not sure what are the criteria for a hellenistic or semi-hellenistic faction making use the phalanx hidden resource.

    - Disappearance of units and allied governments
    I have noticed how in some cases, units that disappear like the hyperaspistai, still remain available for recruitment in the late game for some factions (in this case, non hellenistic), by using allied government. Also, some units disappear completely (xystophoroi - aspidiotai), while others are reduced in availability (ex. hypaspistai - royal thorakitai). Is there some criteria for this? As the seleucids, for example, it is quite frustrating to build hellenistic colonies in the east, just for the thorakitai reforms to hit, and suddenly all those lvl2 colonies can not recruit any phalanx, unless you upgrade to level 3. There is also no warning about this, so learned it the hard way - not going to build hellenic colonies in those places again.

    - The criteria for hellenistic allied government units
    In the last version, the recruitment was severely limited for hellenistic factions in allied governments, as i understand it, due to stacking already with the polis building (which they can build). There are few issues with this:

    A factions like pontos is affected by this, is considered hellenistic, yet they can't build polis. Why are they affected? There is no stacking recruitment with a polis, because they can't build one, only take over existing ones. Nabatu can also use polis after the reform (IIRC), but they aren't affected by this at all, so they can stack recruitment.

    Units like thessalian cavalry are recruitable using an allied oligarchy for hellenistic factions, but others like tarantinoi hippeis, spartan hoplites, etc. are not. I don't understand why this applies to some and not others. Shouldn't a faction like say, Pergamon, have an easier time recruiting allied greek troops than say the Boii? As it is ingame, both factions get exactly the same allied units - because it is unfair for greek factions to "stack" recruitment. I don't think fairness matters at all, this mod is about historicity, and imo it makes sense for certain people to have more affinity to certain factions, and be more invested into helping them as allies.

    In short, i don't really like the idea of different allied recruitment for hellenistic/non hellenistic, i prefered the previous system that allowed hellenistic faction to have a bit of "stacking", and that somewhat represented the closer cultural affinity to the patron faction they were allied with. Currently, this isn't represented at all.

  16. #696

    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.3 released!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenikon View Post
    I have noticed some things i would like to give feedback on:

    - The Basilike Patris for different factions:
    As Nabatu, you benefit from the phalanx hidden resource (the one for antiocheia, alexandreia and pella), like the macedonian factions do. But Nabatu is not a macedonian faction, it isn't even a hellenistic one. On the other hand, Pontos is eastern, and doesn't benefit. Pergamon and Bactria are hellenistic, but not macedonian, and do benefit. I'm not sure what are the criteria for a hellenistic or semi-hellenistic faction making use the phalanx hidden resource.
    They're only available to Nabatu as "elites", and for all that it has the phalangitai h_r, they can only build their Basilike Patris in Antiocheia or Alexandreia (not Pella).

    Pontic elites are different, which is why they don't get Phalangitai by building their top government there. On the other hand, they get Agema Phalangitai.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenikon View Post
    - Disappearance of units and allied governments
    I have noticed how in some cases, units that disappear like the hyperaspistai, still remain available for recruitment in the late game for some factions (in this case, non hellenistic), by using allied government. Also, some units disappear completely (xystophoroi - aspidiotai), while others are reduced in availability (ex. hypaspistai - royal thorakitai). Is there some criteria for this? As the seleucids, for example, it is quite frustrating to build hellenistic colonies in the east, just for the thorakitai reforms to hit, and suddenly all those lvl2 colonies can not recruit any phalanx, unless you upgrade to level 3. There is also no warning about this, so learned it the hard way - not going to build hellenic colonies in those places again.
    Hyperaspistai availability is completely changed in 2.3a. They're only available from the polis in certain locations, they no longer come from Allied Governments at all. Quite a lot of Allied Government pools have been re-written (there are fewer Greeks in general for places like Anatolia, the Black Sea, Thrace and so on coming from Allied Governments).

    The progression of Hellenistic units is described in the event notices themselves, it explains the units that are completely replaced over time. Like the cavalry with the late reform. Hypaspistai are actually just short of being completely replaced - their refresh drops to 0.01 which is a unit every 100 turns (except Makedonia).

    No, there's no warning about the phalanxes disappearing. The descriptions aren't written at that level of detail, explaining particular changes in particular places, unfortunately.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenikon View Post
    - The criteria for hellenistic allied government units
    In the last version, the recruitment was severely limited for hellenistic factions in allied governments, as i understand it, due to stacking already with the polis building (which they can build). There are few issues with this:

    A factions like pontos is affected by this, is considered hellenistic, yet they can't build polis. Why are they affected? There is no stacking recruitment with a polis, because they can't build one, only take over existing ones. Nabatu can also use polis after the reform (IIRC), but they aren't affected by this at all, so they can stack recruitment.
    Pontos can use polis buildings, and many of the areas they operate in will have AI factions merrily planting them all over the place (because they don't suffer the same restrictions a human player does). It is to avoid the very likely stacking that would come of taking over places the AI has built up, that

    Nabatu can't use polis buildings at any time, that's why they have a government that imitates it for use in places with one present (but that's nowhere near as good as Pontos who can both put their choice of government in and use the polis). Pontos can also put Hellenistic colonies in, which Nabatu can't.

    Nabatu can only get Hellenistic units from either an Allied Government, or the polis-imitation government. They can't stack recruitment and that is less efficient and provides fewer units than Pontos can get using any existing polis as well as their governments.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenikon View Post
    Units like thessalian cavalry are recruitable using an allied oligarchy for hellenistic factions, but others like tarantinoi hippeis, spartan hoplites, etc. are not. I don't understand why this applies to some and not others. Shouldn't a faction like say, Pergamon, have an easier time recruiting allied greek troops than say the Boii? As it is ingame, both factions get exactly the same allied units - because it is unfair for greek factions to "stack" recruitment. I don't think fairness matters at all, this mod is about historicity, and imo it makes sense for certain people to have more affinity to certain factions, and be more invested into helping them as allies.
    Thessalians were quite plentiful, for an elite cavalry. There were colonies of them in Syria, for example. The others were extremely limited in numbers, thus Hellenistic factions only get them from the polis (and non-Hellenistic factions can only get them from an Allied Government).

    A Hellenistic faction should be reliant on polis and colony for the bulk of their recruitment; and even with just (Allied) government and polis, will still get more Greeks than any non-Hellenistic faction.

    The Boii in Greece putting in an Allied Democracy will get at most 12 points of Greek units. Pergamon would get that many from the polis (more if it's a Metropoleis), plus another 5-6 points from the Allied Democracy, and retains the option of adding a Hellenistic Colony.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenikon View Post
    In short, i don't really like the idea of different allied recruitment for hellenistic/non hellenistic, i prefered the previous system that allowed hellenistic faction to have a bit of "stacking", and that somewhat represented the closer cultural affinity to the patron faction they were allied with. Currently, this isn't represented at all.
    You might prefer it, but I'm afraid it's not going to change. It provided an unintended excess of units for Hellenistic factions, who already benefit from having at least three potential sources of recruitment. The "cultural affinity" is already sufficiently represented by receiving a larger volume of Greeks through both government (if Allied) and polis, and having the option of colonisation adding still more Greeks.

  17. #697

    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.3 released!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenikon View Post
    I have noticed some things i would like to give feedback on:

    Units like thessalian cavalry are recruitable using an allied oligarchy for hellenistic factions, but others like tarantinoi hippeis, spartan hoplites, etc. are not. I don't understand why this applies to some and not others. Shouldn't a faction like say, Pergamon, have an easier time recruiting allied greek troops than say the Boii? As it is ingame, both factions get exactly the same allied units - because it is unfair for greek factions to "stack" recruitment. I don't think fairness matters at all, this mod is about historicity, and imo it makes sense for certain people to have more affinity to certain factions, and be more invested into helping them as allies.
    Allied democracies are for recruiting local infantry, while oligarchies are for recruiting local cavalry.

    And the part that you only can recruit thessalians with oligarchies is wrong, some helenistic factions can recruit them if they put their Basilike Patris in one place and you can also recruit them if you put colonies in the right settlement.

    Like how you recruit cataphracts?.

    By putting colonies or local colonies in Edessa or Damaskos.

    I hope this might help
    Last edited by NapoleonMaster; May 01, 2018 at 10:24 AM.

  18. #698

    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.3 released!

    @ Quintus, thank you for the in-depth explanation. There was a lot i didn't understand well about Nabatu. I see your point that the "cultural affinity" is represented by numbers and not just by one kind of specialized local unit.

    About the thorakitai reform, i would suggest reducing the refresh rate of phalangitai, instead of removing them outright from the level 2 colony, so that you can at least have the possibility of retraining existing ones.

  19. #699

    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.3 released!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellenikon View Post
    @ Quintus, thank you for the in-depth explanation. There was a lot i didn't understand well about Nabatu. I see your point that the "cultural affinity" is represented by numbers and not just by one kind of specialized local unit.

    About the thorakitai reform, i would suggest reducing the refresh rate of phalangitai, instead of removing them outright from the level 2 colony, so that you can at least have the possibility of retraining existing ones.
    It can't go any lower; it's gone from 1 point to nothing:

    Code:
    ;;; EASTERN
    recruit_pool "hellenistic cavalry xystophoroi"  1  0.04  1  0  requires factions { f_makedonia, f_epeiros, f_pergamon, f_pontos, cul_3, } and not hidden_resource arabian and not hidden_resource daha and hidden_resource eastern and not hidden_resource baktria and not event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1
    recruit_pool "hellenistic cavalry aspidiotai hippeis"  1  0.04  1  0  requires factions { f_makedonia, f_epeiros, f_pergamon, f_pontos, cul_3, } and not hidden_resource arabian and not hidden_resource daha and hidden_resource eastern and not hidden_resource baktria and event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1
    recruit_pool "hellenistic cavalry hippakontistai"  1  0.08  2  0  requires factions { f_makedonia, f_epeiros, f_pergamon, f_pontos, cul_3, } and not hidden_resource arabian and not hidden_resource daha and hidden_resource eastern and not hidden_resource baktria and not event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1
    recruit_pool "hellenistic cavalry thureopherontes hippeis"  1  0.08  2  0  requires factions { f_makedonia, f_epeiros, f_pergamon, f_pontos, cul_3, } and not hidden_resource arabian and not hidden_resource daha and hidden_resource eastern and not hidden_resource baktria and event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1
    recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry phalangitai"  1  0.04  1  0  requires factions { f_makedonia, f_epeiros, f_pergamon, f_pontos, cul_3, } and not event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1 and not hidden_resource arabian and not hidden_resource daha and hidden_resource eastern and not hidden_resource baktria and hidden_resource hellen1 or hidden_resource hellen2
    recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry thorakitai"  1  0.04  1  0  requires factions { f_makedonia, f_epeiros, f_pergamon, f_pontos, cul_3, } and not hidden_resource arabian and not hidden_resource daha and hidden_resource eastern and not hidden_resource baktria and event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1
    recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry hoplitai"  1  0.08  2  0  requires factions { f_makedonia, f_epeiros, f_pergamon, f_pontos, cul_3, } and not hidden_resource arabian and not hidden_resource daha and hidden_resource eastern and not hidden_resource baktria and not event_counter ecThureosReform 1
    recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry hemithorakitai"  1  0.12  3  0  requires factions { f_makedonia, f_epeiros, f_pergamon, f_pontos, cul_3, } and not hidden_resource arabian and not hidden_resource daha and hidden_resource eastern and not hidden_resource baktria and not event_counter ecThureosReform 1
    recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry machairophoroi"  1  0.08  2  0  requires factions { f_makedonia, f_epeiros, f_pergamon, f_pontos, cul_3, } and not hidden_resource arabian and not hidden_resource daha and hidden_resource eastern and not hidden_resource baktria and event_counter ecThureosReform 1
    recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry thureophoroi"  1  0.04  1  0  requires factions { f_makedonia, f_epeiros, f_pergamon, f_pontos, cul_3, } and not hidden_resource arabian and not hidden_resource daha and hidden_resource eastern and not hidden_resource baktria and event_counter ecThureosReform 1
    recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry euzonoi"  1  0.08  2  0  requires factions { f_makedonia, f_epeiros, f_pergamon, f_pontos, cul_3, } and not hidden_resource arabian and not hidden_resource daha and hidden_resource eastern and not hidden_resource baktria and not hidden_resource nabatu_empire and event_counter ecThureosReform 1
    recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry euzonoi"  1  0.08  2  0  requires factions { f_makedonia, f_epeiros, f_pergamon, f_pontos, cul_3, } and event_counter ecThureosReform 1 and not event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1 and hidden_resource eastern and hidden_resource nabatu_empire
    recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry promachoi"  1  0.08  2  0  requires factions { f_makedonia, f_epeiros, f_pergamon, f_pontos, cul_3, } and hidden_resource eastern and hidden_resource nabatu_empire and event_counter ecThorakitaiReform 1
    recruit_pool "hellenistic missile cretan archers"  1  0.04  1  0  requires factions { f_makedonia, f_epeiros, f_pergamon, f_pontos, cul_3, } and hidden_resource eastern and hidden_resource hellen1
    recruit_pool "hellenistic infantry cretan"  1  0.04  1  0  requires factions { f_makedonia, f_epeiros, f_pergamon, f_pontos, cul_3, } and hidden_resource eastern and hidden_resource hellen1
    recruit_pool "thracian infantry katoikoi"  1  0.04  1  0  requires factions { f_makedonia, f_epeiros, f_pergamon, f_pontos, cul_3, } and not hidden_resource arabian and not hidden_resource daha and hidden_resource eastern and hidden_resource satrapy and not hidden_resource hr_c
    They're retained in the helcol_three because it starts with a 2-point pool. A lot of these "gotcha's" are resolved by the reworking of where and how you can build the bigger colonies. You won't be able to build a regular helcol_three that far east, only a (phalanx-less) helcol_ref after the ThorakitaiReform. For lots of places, helcol_two is the biggest they can get before the ThorakitaiReform, after which the helcol_ref becomes available in many places. Not all helcol_three's can "upgrade" (because it isn't really, it's a change in composition) to helcol_ref either.

  20. #700

    Default Re: Announcement: Europa Barbarorum II 2.3 released!

    Issue with Bosporan Kingdom recruitment:

    Their highest level of government loses the ability to recruit Eplietikoi Thorakitai (which is available from their 2nd highest level, Paradynastic rule). I'm not sure whether this is a bug or it is intended, so I just wanted to mention it as it seemed weird to me. Why would they lose the ability to hand pick their best thorakitai to form an elite unit as a result of improving their royal bureaucracy?

    Loving 2.3, really awesome work guys! Thank you!

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